TWG 100th Anniversary: Dinner and a Show

[Dudeman]

Alliance doesn't make any sense in this game. Wolves hitting the Brutal Human is entirely luck-based (and there's way too many humans for those odds to be favorable), Wolves can re-kill whoever gets revived so that communication is almost immediately cut off, and the Reviver can only revive once anyway so there's no advantage to using the Reviver to set up an alliance. At best, the Seer finds the Brutal Human and sets up a private alliance there, but again, there's way too many players for those odds to be favorable. The best we can hope for is that the Brutal gets hit early and something happens from there.

Now, the other issue that I've been thinking about since this game was chosen: MOnik̶̔͞k̨̄͊̓̌͜͝k̇̓ͭ̓҉k̵ͬ̐̏̽̔̌͌͘k̂̐̿̿̋ͭͨ̊̀͜͢k̽̽ͭ̃̎̂ͯ̀a. I̶ ͟d̀i͜d t͞h̶e m͏at̷h, an̢d wįţh̀ o̸ne ̨rev͟i̴ve͝ a̧nd ̕n͏o͢ ̡m͏ąrke҉d p̶lay͠er͝s͞ ͞being̛ l͞y͏nc̶hed o͡r ͜w̸ol̡f́eḑ ͏pri͘or ̶to ͢ma͞r͡ki̷n͠ģ,͏ Monika's pow͘er k͜i͏ck͜s ͢i͝n̶to ͢eff͜ec̷t̵ on ͟Night 5,̛ ͟whi̵c̷h͢ s͏eems l̢ike̡ a ͘w͏a͘y̷s o̵u̴t͢ ͘but wil̴l ̛c͜o͠m͝e quickl͞y̛ w͡it҉h͏ the͞ s͘i͡ze ̡of̕ thi͞s g̴a҉me͞.͞ A śmart͡  Monika w̵il͞l͟͟ ̶̧͟m̷̨a̕̕͞r͢k͝ ̢playè̛r̶̸s҉ ̡t̴̷̨h̷̕͞ą͡t̛ ͜҉a̸̵͝r͟͞e͟͢ ̛̛͠o̡͟u͠͡t̨҉ o͝f͘ ̵̀t̨͏ḩ̢è ͡͝s̵͜p̷ǫ͟t͏líg̀͞h͝t̴͝ ̨̡͡ś̡o̧̕ ̕͢t͏͡h̡͜ą̸t ҉t̕͠h͡e̛y͏ ̵̀dǫ̨̀n̶͝'͞t̀́ ̡d̢i̧͜e ̷͞ţoo̷͟ ̕͜͞eą̀r̕l͠y aǹ̢͜d̶̷͜ m̛̕e͞͠ss̶̛ ҉͞up͡ ͘h̶̛̀e̷̸r̴ ̵̛͝i͠dea̴̶͘l̢̧͡ ̕t̸i̸̧m͏èl̴̷i̸n̕e̵͞.̧͡ Į g̨u̸̴҉e̕͝s̸̨s͡͏ ͡a̴͜ ̵q̸̛ue̕͘҉ş̴̛ti̕͘ơ̶͝n҉҉ ͘f̴͏o̡͠r Ǹ̵̵͡ó̡c̷̀͘͟͡ Monika i̴̢̧͟͞s̵̵̨̕:͟ ̧͏i͏̛̛f̷̢͞ ̴̧͝a͏̸̀͢͠ ̷͟͠͏̶p̴̛̀͞͡l̵̸̶̨̧a͜͠y̸̢͏e̡̕͠r̕҉̛ ̨̨͘͠͡w̶͡͡a̧̡͟͡s̶̛͢͠ ̡͜͠͡m̸̨͘͏a̴̢͡͝r̢k͘͢͡e̡͏̴͜͠d̷̷͘̕͡ ̨͝͡a̶̧͡͠n̵̡͘̕͡d̶̨҉̡ ̵̧̡͠[̴̨̨͡͞į̕͟]̵̛t̴̸̨͝h̴̡́͠ȩ̶̛̛͜n͏̶̀̕[̴҉/̵͝i̵̧]̴̢͘҉ ̵̢̛͢d̸̨͝͞i҉̸͢͠͠e͢͡͠s̴̶,͜͏ ͡҉̴̵͠d̕҉ơ̕͠͝ę͜s̶̀͡ ̛́̕͞͡t̵̴̀h̛҉a͏̨́҉t̢͠͏҉ ̕͟ḿ͟͞à̵҉ŕ̷̷͘͝k҉̵́i҉̡͜n̵҉҉҉g҉̴́̀͟ ̷̶̷͜͠c̵o̢̡҉ú̸̡͟n̴͘͞t́͜͏͘ ͡͠t̵̷̷͢͟o͝͏̶ẁ̛҉̕͞a͜͟͜r̶͢͝͝d̨́̕͘͜s͏́̕ ̢͘̕͜͟h̷҉̧ȩ̷̀̀͟r҉̀͠͡ ̧̛͡͝t̷̸̶͝ò̶̸t̵̸a̕̕͡͡l̢̛͘?̵ ͏̷͢B̴́҉a͢ş̴̢͢͜į̵̨̛͡c҉͟͝͏҉a̸̸l̴̢͠l҉͏̨y̛͠ ̵̡i͢͏̸́͡t̸͠ ͜͢ş̀e̸͜ę̢͟͝͞ḿ̨s̸̸̸̢̕ ̢́̕͜͟t̷o҉̨̀͟ ̨̧͏m̛͜͟͡e̶̢҉ ̡̧̕͜͞ţ̵͠h̴̡̧͘͞a̸̸̧̢t̵̨͘͢͡ ̨҉̷̴t̡̧̛̀͟h̡̛͘͠i̡̛͞͡s̕͟ ̴̢͘̕͠g͟͏̶̷͟a̛̛̛̕m̸͡e̴̶͞͠͡ ̴̛͘͢͝h̢̨̀͝ą̴s͘͜͞ ̶̷̧͜͝t̵̛ò̴ ̷̸͞b̶͘e̶͘͘ ̧͢i̢͞n̷̡̧̧ ̸̨̀͡͞á̴̡ ̛͜v̸́e͘͢͡ŕ̴͘͞y̸̛̛͞ ͟͜p̕̕ó̡́͡͡s҉̀͜͠i̵̢̡͜͠t̢́i̡̛͠v̷͠e̕͠ ̶̨́h̵́͢͢͠ư̷͝ḿ̸͜͞a̧͝n̶͜ ̨̧͜͜d̴̕͟͝į͘r͘͟e̴͢c̕͢ţ͘í̴̛ơ̶̵̧̨n̸͟ ̧͝b̨́͠͝͠y̡͏͞҉ ̷̨͞҉Ǹ́̕í̀͜͞g҉̸̵̢͘h̶̨͠t҉͟ ́҉̛͜5̴͏̧͝ ̷͞͡o̸̧͘͟r̵͟͡ it's possible that the entire game ends there.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

stahp pls

Oh great; now it looks like I'm telling davy to stop.

I'm a bird, chirp chirp, mcChicken.

[Monika]

Dead players are still technically marked, but do not count toward the total counter of Monika's ability.  Rules updated to reflect this better.

[Dudeman]

Yeah, okay. I see your point.

[raeko]

way too early to be talking about this imo

[BlackDragonSlayer]

way too early to be talking about this imo

:<

Never too early, actually.

[FireArrow]

Points against bds and doodmoon for trying to stop an alliance like wut.

Wolves can re-kill whoever gets revived so that communication is almost immediately cut off

The confirmed human would unite the power roles then die again. How does his or her death stop the now formed alliance to cease communication?

In a game without a guardian and a vigi, an alliance is not only less useful, but impractical to form at all because there's also no "useless" role that can be sacrificed to get the specials together. A reviver is NOT a substitute for a guardian, and thinking that, IMO, is just more likely to get all the specials killed faster. While getting an alliance is always nice, to be honest, I don't think there are enough special roles (and not the right kind of special roles) to warrant forming an alliance.

It seems like your arguing more that an alliance isn't as useful as it's made out to be, but you haven't really given any downsides or reason not to. We use our revive on a regular human instead of a power role? The wolves potentially go for ridiculous risk killing themselves to screw with the plan? Please tell me the downside that outweighs the benefit of 4 confirmed humans, 3 of which the wolves don't know about.

way too early to be talking about this imo

What?

[BrainyLucario]

Brainy and TZP for wolf partners 2K18

It feels like he was just bandwagoning on the general sentiment that was going on (i.e. discussion about the Brutal Human) without knowing that the Brutal Human didn't know who they are.

All right good, that's the assumption I was working on before.

[FireArrow]

Seperate post because it's important. Do not publically announce it if you get marked by Monika. Since the Wolves and Monika can win together (tbh noc that feels pretty unbalanced) the wolves can simply avoid wolfing anyone who's marked and we just explode night 5. We want them redundantly targeting the same people.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Points against bds and doodmoon for trying to stop an alliance like wut.

Why? If we think an alliance is not beneficial, then why should we not voice our opinions?

It seems like your arguing more that an alliance isn't as useful as it's made out to be, but you haven't really given any downsides or reason not to. We use our revive on a regular human instead of a power role? The wolves potentially go for ridiculous risk killing themselves to screw with the plan? Please tell me the downside that outweighs the benefit of 4 confirmed humans, 3 of which the wolves don't know about.

wot

Don't know what you're talking about, but to be honest, I think the only point for an alliance is Khajiit. That being said, forming an alliance successfully is much, much more difficult and impractical at this point, especially since, as mentioned before, the Brutal Human does not know who they are and has no way of connecting with the alliance unless seered. There would not be "4 confirmed humans, 3 of which the wolves don't know about."

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Seperate post because it's important. Do not publically announce it if you get marked by Monika. Since the Wolves and Monika can win together (tbh noc that feels pretty unbalanced) the wolves can simply avoid wolfing anyone who's marked and we just explode night 5. We want them redundantly targeting the same people.

This is a good point though, and thank you for mentioning that.

[FireArrow]

Don't know what you're talking about, but to be honest, I think the only point for an alliance is Khajiit. That being said, forming an alliance successfully is much, much more difficult and impractical at this point, especially since, as mentioned before, the Brutal Human does not know who they are and has no way of connecting with the alliance unless seered. There would not be "4 confirmed humans, 3 of which the wolves don't know about."

1. Human dies, does not have to be brutal human
2. Reviver revives dead human
3. During this phase, the seer, reviver, and khajiit claim to the revived human.
4. human unites them in a group pm
5. You have an alliance of 4 confirmed humans, which will probably be dropped down to three due to the confirmed human being known to the wolves.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I'm still not 100% sold on the plan. The problem with that though is that there's still no mouthpiece for the alliance. And no guardian means that the specials are probably at a slightly greater risk of dying if they're together (because of potential slips, especially if one of them tries to defend the others). Plus, there's no saying that one of the specials won't be the one wolfed. :K

[E. Gadd Industries]

I agree, the Monika mechanic seems a bit unbalanced. Now, concerning alliances & all that, I've read both sides of the discussion and here are my thoughts: I think an alliance could be useful, if everything indeed works out in our favour. With that said, it would need to be seer-based, as using the revive this early on could prove detrimental later on. Sure, we'd have a confirmed human then, and a small alliance could be quickly set up, but given the person revived is revived at the beginning of a night phase, they only have 24 hours to not only set up an alliance but try to see through a possible false-claim by the wolves. In addition, who's to say a more useful revive wouldn't be needed later on (such as the Brutal, my next point)? Unless the person wolved N1 is the Brutal, in which case they need to be revived ASAP, because that's the big role the wolves won't be as inclined to mess with (unless they're willing to sacrifice another of their numbers?), I believe the revive needs to lay low.

Ninja'd x2

[BlackDragonSlayer]

a possible false-claim by the wolves. In addition, who's to say a more useful revive wouldn't be needed later on

Those are good points I forgot to mention/didn't think of at first.