TWG 100th Anniversary: Dinner and a Show

[davy]

So, do we want an alliance fast or do we try to get the double wolf kill?

It doesn't make sense to set up an alliance right now since we don't have a guardian. We could ask the Reviver to use his power in the next night phase to revive either the wolf victim or the lynch victim (there are cardflips, so revived players will be confirmed) so we can set up an alliance starting night 3 (the revived player will be alive at the start of the next night phase). Alternatively, we could bank on the wolves killing the Brutal human, then reviving the Brutal Human so that the next time the Brutal Human is wolf'd, we get a seccond wolf kill. If the wolves don't kill the Brutal Human twice in a row, then the Brutal human can just play alliance leader.

Discuss.

[Bubbles]

Sounds pretty solid to me. The Brutal Human plan obv would be the better one, but it kinda relies a lot on dumb luck. If we acted on the reviver plan there's still the same chance that the Brutal could still be wolfed

Are you positive about the cardflips? I'm not seeing it in the op

[Bubbles]

actually jk it says cardflips in the TWG signup thread whoopsie

[Dudeman]

It's a good plan, I don't really have any objections. That said, how exactly does an alliance work in a game without Nat̀̋s̙̱̼̤͔̣̆̀̇ͮų͖̼̤͚ͭ̏ki,
Y̵͙̼̳u̽ri, and\nd\*{a͍͖͍̔̕ń̲͍̼͔͇̘̩͋̎d̮͚͎̫̦̬ͨ̆͑ a Guardian?

[Trasdegi]

Why would the wolves kill the brutal human twice? They'll know who it is because this game has cardflips, so it would be very stupid of them to wolf him again....

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Why not have the brutal human claim now?  We'll get an alliance leader night 1 instead of night 3.  The wolves will be leery of icing him/her--probably not worth it to kill one of their own members night 1.  If they're feeling gutsy, well, we're both down a player, and I still think that's in our favor.

Also, what is going on with the items?  Are they mystery items?  Should I have any idea at all what they do?

[Trasdegi]

The problem is, if we make the brutal human claim, we'll have no means of knowing if the claim is true and/or we'll get false/counterclaims.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

If there's one thing that playing TWG for so long has taught me, it's that humans will always try to make an alliance even in games that weren't meant for one.

If there's another thing that playing TWG for so long has taught me, it's that sometimes, they shouldn't try.

In a game without a guardian and a vigi, an alliance is not only less useful, but impractical to form at all because there's also no "useless" role that can be sacrificed to get the specials together. A reviver is NOT a substitute for a guardian, and thinking that, IMO, is just more likely to get all the specials killed faster. While getting an alliance is always nice, to be honest, I don't think there are enough special roles (and not the right kind of special roles) to warrant forming an alliance. If need be, the seer can always reveal their results to someone they're seered green (a little risky, but it's unlikely that they'll hit the Master Wolf) or, if they're really lucky, someone they seered blue (no risk, since there's no painter).

Why not have the brutal human claim now?  We'll get an alliance leader night 1 instead of night 3.  The wolves will be leery of icing him/her--probably not worth it to kill one of their own members night 1.  If they're feeling gutsy, well, we're both down a player, and I still think that's in our favor.

Also, what is going on with the items?  Are they mystery items?  Should I have any idea at all what they do?

Brutal Human doesn't know who they are. Wolf points against TZP because the role PM specifically mentions that (and points against Noc for not posting the generic role PMs in the thread? )?

Not voting TZP because there's no way in hell he's anything but the traitor.

[BrainyLucario]

I feel like that might be just a misread BDS, now if it was like the third day, then sure. I'd point that out as wolfy as well



I̷̡̢̢̜̣̤̭͚̟̝͙̐̔̾̈̂̃̃̕ ̸̡̢̫̙̙̯̲͓̝͉̞̘̅̐͊̈́̓̈́̐̃̽͘͝f̷͚̤͕̼̯̗̤̣̲̬̲̈́̀̉̇̀̑̍̐̿̔́́͠ẽ̷̯̣̂̿̏̀̍̎͋̂̿́̆̚͜ę̶̙͖̭̖̮̩̩̗̮̝͒͛̇̀̌ḻ̴̡̨͙̣̲̻̯̇͆̓͆̌͂͛̈̈́̐͐͠͝͝ ̸̢̻̗̰̼̠̘̞͎͚͆̓̉l̶̨̨̺̼̤̫̬͖̟̝̾̀̐͐̉͂̀̿̔̚̕͝ȋ̸̡̮͙͚̩͇̙͐͗̌̇̚k̸̛̘̞͇̙̺̖͉̙͚̯̏̈́̽͑̔̄̃̈́̍͛e̸̳̮̦͑̃͐́͒̏̊͋ ̸̢̫͙͖̠̫̥̎̅t̵͖̱̫͇̻̻̑̒̑̏͐̑̎ĥ̶̢̖̞͔̞͍̼̟̟̀̅̐̍̇̋̊̐͜͝a̴̧̢̧̨̛̛̼̣̤̣̫̱͎͂̎͗̏̚͝t̴̡̢̛̹̟̳̤̗̟͔͎̜͖͠ ̶̡̛̣͉̜͎͕̹͇̺̭͔̝͖͐̓͊̄͆̽̊̓̉̎̂͌͠͝m̶̩̦̙̗̼͈̤̭̭̬̠̔̅͛͛̈̄̒͝͝i̸̧̨̧̖͇̮̫͙͎̫̟͋͒g̷̢̙̟̪̺̦̣͉̈̒̈́͝h̷̖̭͉͍̱̞̠̮̼̑͒̈́̾̒̊̈̽̋͑͛̽̏͜ͅť̸̬͍͖͉͍͔̍̊̊̑̂͜͝ ̷̢̛̥̰̠̽̊̈̊̽̈́̀͜͠b̵̨̧̛͇͓̙̰̬̗̌͑͂̕é̴̘̖̭͓̮͕͔̺͓͚̦͙͖̽ͅ ̴̧̲̣̱̠̹͈͙̬͈̄́̎͗̆̏̀̔͑j̶̦̜̇̅͒̋̑͂̀̋̃̈͊̔̽̆͝ṻ̸̥̞̙̞́͑̚͜s̵̡̬̩̜͉̫͓̮̪̺͗̃̂̽ͅt̷̢̡̢̹̰̣͈̻̟̣͔͇̲͂̊̆̒͆͂̉͜ ̸̨̧̗̜͇̤͖̹̟̩̫̀͊̈͛̂͊̂̅̀̌̏̕a̴̰̥͖͔̳͉̪̜̳̼͍̋͗̽̆͊ͅ ̶̨̖̠̣̌̄̓̍̔̅̒͘ṁ̸̨̭̼͇̰͚̼̪̪͔i̷̧̺̲̞͓̝̦̾̃̄̋̚͘s̷̢̨̙͍̖̝͔͚̼̲̜̺̤̱̀͌̇́̿̈́̃̈́̿̄͋͝r̷̜̬̹͍͉̪̆̀̋̓̅̇̂̇͑̀͝e̵̡̝̯̝͈͍̖̯͍̘̒͂͆̋͌͒̋͠a̴̢͇̳̬̼͈̳͈̽̊̄͝d̶̛͈̙̥̲̰͇̭̳̝̓̅̐̆͆̂͂͠ͅ ̵̮̞̠̬͗̓͊ͅB̶̧̡̡̗̮̖̩̫̮͓͔͎̫̏͗͑̎̌̽̚͜Ḋ̸̡̡̯̘͍͈̫͓͇̻S̶̬̫̹͓̥͖͚͉̀͒́̀͑̕͘̚͝,̸̧̢̼̪͓̮̝͖̤̜̥̅ ̵͇̖͕͔͕̘̰̙̦̭̖͌͌̓n̵̥̣̯͔̪̒̍͑̏̓͌͒͘͜͝o̴̩̦͊̄͘w̷̪̺͍͕̦̬͎̻͖͕̳̟̰͎̞̃̑̈́̅̔̏̆̅ ̷̗̩̹̞̭̻̏̽̚͠i̶̦̦̘̝͎̬̬̪̇͆̊͒̆̽f̵̛̛͍̬̟̣͍͚̘͉̹̬͙̬͛̓̔̽̅̓̍͝͠ ̶̧̢̳͙͇͉̣͎̮̞̺͓̳̹̒͋̈́͋ȋ̵̢͂̈͊͌t̴̨̳̘͖̥̮̞͚̞̖̺̟̳̤͈̎̒̊̽̇̒̀͗̈́͒͌̒̆̕ ̸̜̓̅͐̑̈́̽̒͘w̸̱̩͈̦̙͋͝ͅa̷̲̱̓͐͂͋̋̚s̸̡͈̫̱̮̐̈̃͌͐͘ ̴̥̝̖̩̠͎͇̫͕͆̀̊̒̔̈́͛̆̏͝l̵͇͚̯̀͛̂̕i̴̲̻̦̟̳̔̐͑͝ͅk̸̡̨̠̫̗͍͂̿̾̌͊͒͑̈́̍̒̾̃͝ͅė̵̡̢̡̡̝̞̤̞͚̮̻̗̠̙̌̀͗͋̈́̓̅̐̾̅͠ ̵̪́̃̓̓͂̑̀̔̓̚̚̚͝ẗ̶̛̘̯̗͙̻́́̄̾̽̓͆́̈́͆̐̚͝͝h̵̨̛̼͉͕̞̻̞̓͂̎̌̌̉̑̎̊̋̓͘̕͜͝ͅe̴̡͎͍̤͕̺͚̋̉̌̊̌̑̕̚͝ ̷͈̝͖̼̻̭̟̙͔̣̑̐͆͒͗̊̾̉ṫ̶̢̞̭͕̫͚̬̹̝̣̰̩͌͐͘͝ḥ̴̰̙̓̃̈́̌̔̓̕į̷̧̤̹̺̮̘̗̘̹̏̉͐̀̈́͝r̸̨̨̨̨̛̛̠̥͔͕̭͓͎̼̝̬̝̓̓̀̑̈͒̃̔͊͂͊̄̄d̷̥̖̪̗̳̬͉͔͔̔̀̓́̍̚͘͜ ̵̧̨͉͇̰̺̹̤̐͛͑͒̄ḑ̵̨̢̘̬̮̭͕̣̰͉͕̓̈̃̀̆̍̈́͠a̷̠̺̱̬͑̔̑̇̈̓̓̊̈́̚͘̕͘͠ẙ̴̨̫͖̦̟̺͇̈́́̉̿̄̑͑̍̉̀̑͑͐̚,̶̧̧̻͈̣͓̖͓̩̠͎̹̯̩̓̉͗̆͐̉̾̄̐͘ͅ ̵̨̨̛̤̹͖̣͓͓̞͉̮̪̞̓̂̂̚ţ̴̫͚̙̞̮͎̯̳͈͊̀h̶̢̘̬̰̜͇̊͆̓̕͜ę̵̖͚͕͖̞̰̤͖̘̤̝̜͈̄́̍̓̌̒͊͊̂̅͠ǹ̴͍̳̊͂͆̋̔̈́͋̊̒̎͜ ̵̜̘̳̘̲̪̩͎̙͙̀̈́̐̽̌̔̂͝s̶̢̛̜̼͔̥̪ū̵̧͈͙̩̺̞̝̦̣̫͔̼̯̪̱̋̏̏͒͐r̴̡͓̝̣̜̣̬͗̇̀̍́͋͊̌̀͝͝͝͠e̶̢̜̖͈̫͚̞̭̙͇̊̍̾̓̍̈͋͘͜.̴͇̥͕̙̐͂ ̸̨̧̧̡̨̥͔̥̝͖̰͍͔̹̽͆́̎ͅĮ̸̛̙̞̱̰͇̩͔̺̠̤̱̂̊̆̊̄̊̅͌̕͠͝ͅ'̴̡̼̺̣̮̹̰̺̲̒͛̅͘͝d̸͓̿͑͆͐̏͗̽̌̐͊̂̐͘͝͝ ̸̛̤̻̜̺̲͕̱̦͇̖̙͐̄́̓̑̈́̚p̵̧̻͚̟̯͈̺̻̜͚͎̉̾̑̚̚o̷̡̤̙̰̦͔̟͈͙͇̱̘͒ͅͅï̶̢̮͙̗̰̼̟̌̈̂̍̔͠n̶̳̤͔̼̲͇̒̽̄̓́͌̾̆̌̆͐̽͘͘t̴̢̞̜̦̻̞̋́̅͐̏̍̋̍̂̒́͜͜͝͝͝ ̵̧̛̰͍̮͖͙̽̏̇ͅt̶̼͇͎̟̹̰́͗̌̐̿͐̽̈́̅͂͆ḧ̴̨̢͙͕͙͖̯́̽͂̄͊̽̚̚ͅa̶̹͈̰̘̐̑̀̇͂̍̀͋̇̈̚͝t̴̼̖̗̻̂͗ ̴̙͓̰͎̘̺̦͚̦̊̃̾̊͛̽͝o̷̯͓̹̲̘̲̞̯̗̤̬̾̂͒̈́̑͊͗͠u̵̘͒́̄̀̾͊̑͂̋̂̓͗̈͝͝t̸̙̼̗̗̐̓̿̈͛̃̌̕ͅ ̷̢̢̝̳̹̳̲͈͕̩͚̬͎̗̽͑̑͂͋́͒͂͌̅̆̇͛̓ã̴̖͚͉̭̱̤̯̝̲̣͉̼̇̇̈͐͒͜ṣ̸̢̡̨̢̙͎̫̘̩̥̣̹̍̈̆̌̇̈́̈́͛̽̆̄̑͜͠ ̴̨̛̞̲͗̒͐̊́̎̄̑͝ẁ̶̱̰̪͋̒̓͗̋͗̓̈́̋̀̚̕ő̷̢̗̾̀̔̈͋͐̌̚͝l̵̨̢̮̲̺̰̭̩̮̗͍͚̫͛́̒́̏̏̋͆̀̾͊͘͜͜f̸̢͍̹̫͉̻͖̞͍̆̄̕̕y̶͉̺͈̰̦̭̆̽̀͂͆͠ ̷̧̡͕̠̬̻̰̤̥̭̱̮̂̿ả̸̢̰̮͚͕͖̲̹̦̣̖̟̼̆̓͊̑̆̉͛́͘͠ͅs̸̢̑̈́͗̂̋̌͛ ̴̺̯̺̗̜̬͋̿̈̈́̈́̈̍͆͒̄̊̃͜ẃ̷̡̹̹̙͉̗̼̳̩͇̈́̓͌̒̂̐͠è̵̬̈́͌̔̕ͅl̶̨̢̠̘̰͓̝͙̀͜͝ḻ̴̥̼͚̼̩̳̇̽̋̅̆̈́̑̔͋́̏̚͝ͅͅ

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I feel like that might be just a misread BDS, now if it was like the third day, then sure. I'd point that out as wolfy as well

Brainy and TZP for wolf partners 2K18

It feels like he was just bandwagoning on the general sentiment that was going on (i.e. discussion about the Brutal Human) without knowing that the Brutal Human didn't know who they are.

[Monika]

Role PMs are not cut and dry.  For the sake of your own enjoyment, please do not discuss role PMs in any capacity, even if it otherwise seems safe to do so.  Claiming roles is still fine.

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Oh whoops you're right

Still doesn't answer my question about the items, though.  Mikey?

[Monika]

The abilities of the items are not public knowledge.

[davy]

It's a good plan, I don't really have any objections. That said, how exactly does an alliance work in a game without a Guardian?

That would mean a behind-the-scenes alliance. The specials are in contact with eachother but do not have a spokesperson in the topic (since the player revived by the reviver will just be killed again).

Why would the wolves kill the brutal human twice? They'll know who it is because this game has cardflips, so it would be very stupid of them to wolf him again....

If they don't wolf them again, we have a confirmed human that can act as our alliance leader. If they wolf them again, they lose another wolf. It's win-win for us.

If there's one thing that playing TWG for so long has taught me, it's that humans will always try to make an alliance even in games that weren't meant for one.

If there's another thing that playing TWG for so long has taught me, it's that sometimes, they shouldn't try.

In a game without a guardian and a vigi, an alliance is not only less useful, but impractical to form at all because there's also no "useless" role that can be sacrificed to get the specials together. A reviver is NOT a substitute for a guardian, and thinking that, IMO, is just more likely to get all the specials killed faster. While getting an alliance is always nice, to be honest, I don't think there are enough special roles (and not the right kind of special roles) to warrant forming an alliance. If need be, the seer can always reveal their results to someone they're seered green (a little risky, but it's unlikely that they'll hit the Master Wolf) or, if they're really lucky, someone they seered blue (no risk, since there's no painter).

You are forgetting one role: Khajiit. It is super benificial for Khajiit to know who the confirmed humans are so he won't send his items to a wolf.

We have a reviver and we have card flips. As long as the reviver uses his ability before dying we will have a confirmed human. Therefore, we will have an alliance.

The thing is, there are two ways to play the reviver (which I outlined in my previous post): 1. Wait until a special (preferebly the Brutal Human) dies and revive that person. 2. Revive the first human that dies.

If 1. the benifit is that the revive target will be more valuable, but risks having the reviver die first without being able to use his ability. 2. does not have that risk and has the benifit that if no special dies during the first two phases we get an alliance faster, but the revive target will be less valuable. That's why I put this up for discussion.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

stahp pls