TWG 100th Anniversary: Dinner and a Show

[Charu]

It stopped us from losing the game, unless you really think we could of lynched a wolf yesterday.

No it did not "stop us from losing the game", lying about the red check isn't the absolute worst, but allowing the lynch to go through when the lynch doesn't know their alignment is really bad.

If the seer was gambling (or the fake seer was, have no clue since ZTP stated in their post that they never checked the thread for 24+ hours), it's not effective because if it was wrong, that's another town player gone which grants that worst possible outcome I outlined when I was still in the Discord chat from actually occurring where the wolf team had a perfect hit and Monika had a perfect mark. Actually surprised the game didn't end because it certainly felt like that's what happened. But if they didn't give the signal to mass kill town, then I'm assuming one of their "marked" is actually a wolf from n1, which is cool to learn about (if this is the case)

Bottom line:

Seer (or the person pretending to be seer) should never gamble the game like that ever. It's reckless, not good, and certainly not smart.

Actually went off on a rant at Raeko about this game last night phase and how I wasn't gonna look at it at all (and why I left the Discord server), but the TWG person in me told me I probably should see what's up in the thread at least. Surprised to see her flip wolf, that was unexpected because she came off to me as someone who literally had no idea what was going on and also questioned whatever was happening.

Whatever, this is a fine turn of events. Just as long everyone is still 100% clear an uncontested seer should never be questioned. We question once that happens, not before like BDS was trying to do. I just got super angry when I saw the flip at day's end last phase.

[Charu]

Yes, that is what happened. But the seer wasn't TZP. Please read my log.

Am I missing something?

I read it, I see no other names except for [omitted to protect seer]

Who's the seer then?

[Charu]

Okay, understood, I think I get what's going on.

...

The actual seer should probably step up then if brainy told FireArrow that they were seered green, I mean, they have evidence to support this (and it existed before Zelda's seer claim). Failure to do so I will not listen to this drivel about how "fake" ZeldaPianist is and I will always vote for FireArrow.

Let this be a warning.

This is not how you play seer.

If ZeldaPianist is not our town seer, then the actual town seer needs to step up, say who they are, and actually make a thunderdome with the other player [size=8]PLEASE[/size] I can't stress this enough.

[Charu]

Of course, lets also not forget using evidence from Brainy is sort of moot since Brainy lied about the red check for BDS.

So, y'know, whatever.

[SuperMarina]

1. In response to FA's point 1: I can't account for why Brainy told you that you were green--I did not give him that information.  You literally say in your post that you can't account for Brainy's "seering" results, so why do you even bring that up?

Why should we also account for your seering results? I want the logs between you and Brainy. Your claims are not concrete either, and if you deny it, you know you'll make yourself look wolfy if you aren't already are for claiming a false seering. We know that the FireArrow seer being green came from the real seer, not from you, so was it that you wanted to change information? Why would you allow FireArrow a false seering? Was it to keep him safe for a phase, or was it at your convenience to claim FireArrow as orange, which may possibly not even be a role color? Wolves have killed Sayori, but does that mean that they know what color he was? You can't fake a seered color.

If you let Brainy die and he really is the brutal human, you are guaranteed to see a wolf, which might give you some insight into any partners he/she might have.

You assume FireArrow is Monika, an inaccurate claim already. This thinking can apply to either a human or Monika, in which the former case is more applicable. Take a look.

Third Party- counts for numbers of neither team.
17. M̦̣͓̀ ̟̖Ò̦̦͖͔͖̜ ̡̱̲͓̞͔͖Ǹ͎̳̳͍͖̟ ̜̥̭͕̤ͅI̱͉̥ ̭̪K͇͕̺̭͞ ̫̹̘͇͍A̩̪͢- wins when it's just Monika.  Can't be wolf-killed.  Each night, may send the host a PM with the name of target player.  If that player is alive, becomes marked. Marked players are privately told they have been marked.  When the number of living marked players becomes greater than or equal to the number of living unmarked players, Monika may send a PM to the host containing the word "boom" to have all living marked players die.  Is seered literally every color except for red, purple, green, and blue.If wolves would win while Monika is still alive, Monika and the wolves both win.
"...What's the point when none of it is even real?"

In the end, remember that it's a THIRD PARTY. This team does not have to team up with the wolves and it can kill anyone they want. Wolves can be marked.

3. Brainy's move, while pretty inspired, was not necessarily intelligible to anyone who wasn't made directly aware of what he was doing (read: FireArrow).  Say FA's right and I'm lying.  The actual seer, when confronted with that counterclaim would immediately claim his role to prevent the lynch of a teammate and the acceptance of a fake seer.  The thing is, EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO IS ALIVE AND PLAYING claimed "not seer" to the whole thread--except for me, because I didn't see that Brainy had claimed, and did not, in fact, post all day.

BDS urged this at the end of a phase, and if you hadn't seen anything, you claim inactivity. Inactivity is nothing to just glance at. Wolves hang back and catch up when the time is most right.

I'm aware that this is something of an argument from silence, but it is the ONLY EXPLANATION for why every other player except me claimed that they were not the seer, allowing Brainy to pull whatever shenaniganery his heart desired.

This isn't even close to a silent argument or an argument at all. You're using quick inferences from the Discord group itself and the forums. If you do not have logs to share publicly, you do not have a concrete claim.

Everyone else needs to reconsider. While the same case applied to Brainy as seer, it's clear now that he was the Brutal Human and had been supplied accurate information from the seer as well as given the freedom to look sloppy. However, TheZeldaPianist continues to appear sloppy, despite counterclaiming. For a major role, their evidence is sparse, they have no logs as proof, and they continue to hound a seering that was supported as green.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Retract vote I will explain why around noon CST

[Bubbles]

I was a little on the fence about TZP's claim at first, but with every other player already claiming "not seer" its actually seeming more believable.

Why should we also account for your seering results? I want the logs between you and Brainy. Your claims are not concrete either, and if you deny it, you know you'll make yourself look wolfy if you aren't already are for claiming a false seering. We know that the FireArrow seer being green came from the real seer, not from you, so was it that you wanted to change information? Why would you allow FireArrow a false seering? Was it to keep him safe for a phase, or was it at your convenience to claim FireArrow as orange, which may possibly not even be a role color? Wolves have killed Sayori, but does that mean that they know what color he was? You can't fake a seered color.

You assume FireArrow is Monika, an inaccurate claim already. This thinking can apply to either a human or Monika, in which the former case is more applicable. Take a look.In the end, remember that it's a THIRD PARTY. This team does not have to team up with the wolves and it can kill anyone they want. Wolves can be marked.

BDS urged this at the end of a phase, and if you hadn't seen anything, you claim inactivity. Inactivity is nothing to just glance at. Wolves hang back and catch up when the time is most right.
This isn't even close to a silent argument or an argument at all. You're using quick inferences from the Discord group itself and the forums. If you do not have logs to share publicly, you do not have a concrete claim.

Everyone else needs to reconsider. While the same case applied to Brainy as seer, it's clear now that he was the Brutal Human and had been supplied accurate information from the seer as well as given the freedom to look sloppy. However, TheZeldaPianist continues to appear sloppy, despite counterclaiming. For a major role, their evidence is sparse, they have no logs as proof, and they continue to hound a seering that was supported as green.

Supermarina, the large amount of your argument against TZP is centered on the idea that Firearrow is a "confirmed" green. Considering Brainy gave the seerings of BDS as red and raeko as green, how is Firearrow considered confirmed at all? Two of the three seers Brainy gave were false, nothing about this situation is "clear now" that he was "supplied accurate information from the seer." Brainy's colors are confirmed (by the host) 0/2, so it seems to me like there's a pretty good chance his one other claim was incorrect as well. Brainy lost literally all credibility with that whole fiasco over the last two phases.

You mention that Monika is a third party and doesn't have to team up with the wolves, which I guess is technically true. But at this point in the game I thought it was established that they were working together. Monika's chances of winning drop through the floor if they opt to betray the wolves and somehow aim to kill everyone. I'm not really following where you were going with that comment, but the basis behind it was wrong regardless.

Like Charu said, there's nothing we can do to dispute TZP until there's a counterclaim, if any. Log or not, no one is disputing him (also iirc Brainy supplied logs and we saw where that took us lol). At this point its just irresponsible to not claim, there's more to lose without it

holding off on my vote to give people more of a chance to counterclaim and for whatever egadd wants to say, but cmon

[SuperMarina]

Your claim will unfortunate go contested, TheZeldaPianist.
Are you listening, wolves?
I am the true seer.

Need a log to prove it? I've got one right here between Brainy and I.

The plan begins on Day 4. I seered BrainyLucario as blue, and I immediately knew I could trust him.
We were both confused by his role until he mentioned his role PM and it turns out he was the Brutal Human.

Spoiler

The Casual - Last Thursday at 9:29 PM
Brainy, brainy, brainy, brainy
I know you're a special. So w h a t are you.
The Casual - Last Thursday at 10:11 PM
If you wish to establish trust
Especially for me, the one coming to you
A Master Wolf would have killed you by now for have been so low on suspicion lists or being a particularly iffy lynch.
And first time as seer, I've made rookie mistakes.
February 23, 2018
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:12 AM
Oh, are you a special too?
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:12 AM
Your one and only seer.
Being horrible.
But I found another special finally.
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:14 AM
I'm surprised I didn't die tonight with that slip up I had
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:14 AM
You may want to provide a case to support yourself. I think people are still lingering on you as a lynch.
So, wait, which special are you?
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:17 AM
Going to be honest with you. Well, I'm not 100% certain, but I was actually trying to get wolfed tonight to attempt to prove whether or not I'm the brutal human. My slip up was on purpose.
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:18 AM
So, wait
What was given in your role PM?
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:19 AM
Plain old human
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:19 AM
Well, congratulations, turns out you're brutal.

[close]

We set on discussion for a future strategy. It is here that Brainy actually suggests posing as seer. I remain hesitant, but in order to get a jump on a wolf, we set the plan into motion.

Spoiler

The Casual - Last Friday at 7:21 AM
Easy now lol
Let's focus on not getting you lynched.
I'm not going to come out and claim.
It's a bad idea, especially with Monika and the wolves.
The Master Wolf definitely provides a threat with his seer ability. He could know.
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:23 AM
I'll pose as the seer then
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:24 AM
That's worse
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:24 AM
Wolves won't know my role just my color
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:25 AM
It still risky. I don't know if we need to go for it yet, anyway.
It'd kill a Cohort, but my focus is the Master Wolf. Kill him, the game becomes easier.
My issue is finding him. He seers green, like humans

[close]

I disclose my list of seered targets with Brainy. As of this current phase, my targets lie as thus
Davy - Purple, N1
FireArrow - Green, N2
BrainyLucario - Blue, N3
Bubbles - Green, N4

Spoiler

Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 7:26 AM
So who have you seered so far?
The Casual - Last Friday at 7:27 AM
I seered davy.. he died.
I've seered FireArrow. He's green.
I seered you. Blue.

[close]

Arousing my suspicion, I wanted to find the Monika. With Sayori dead, I had wondered if anyone had been marked. For the sake of arousing others' suspicions, I asked Brainy to ask you all if you had been marked. BrainyLucario retorted with this reponse from Charu.
My suspicions immediately spiked. As the Monika, you can mark any role. As a third party, it would make sense to be reluctant to share your own information if it was to neither benefit wolves or humans. "Later," Charu abandons the game, only to return after the night phase.

Spoiler

Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 11:49 AM
Charu refused to answer
"But I won't answer the question, sorry. Maybe later when it becomes crucial (as in, MYLO if Monika is still around).
If I was more sure of your position, I'd probably share though, dohoho."
The Casual - Last Friday at 11:50 AM
almost 100%

[close]

BDS began his search for a counterclaiming seer. I unfortunately followed through with a "not seer" claim. Yes, I claim responsibility for BDS's death, but so close into a night phase was risky for counterclaiming as is now. Apologies to those who like to shit on playstyles. There are no guidelines to playing seer, Charu. Don't establish rules that aren't even close to your jurisdiction, please and thank you.

Spoiler

Anti-Brainy - Last Saturday at 1:08 PM
Don't forget to claim not seer
In the thread
The Casual - Last Saturday at 9:02 PM
It's going down
Anti-Brainy - Last Saturday at 9:21 PM
Unfortunately
The Casual - Last Saturday at 9:22 PM
Think this'll still work?
Anti-Brainy - Last Saturday at 9:22 PM
Mhm
No counterclaim so they must believe me
Also I'm not experienced so they'll accept mistakes more easily

[close]

The only thing left to address are Brainy's false claims. This is literally all that there is to it.

Spoiler

The Casual - Last Friday at 8:46 PM
You just made two false claims. If BDS gets lynched, you may be exposed, Raeko is not a confirmed green. I'm not understanding this plan now
Anti-Brainy - Last Friday at 9:50 PM
Gotta make big plays if you want big payoffs
The Casual - Last Friday at 10:20 PM
I guess

[close]

My current suspicions lie in TheZeldaPianist, the only false claiming seer; Charu, the conspirator alongside TZP; Maestro, the wolf of sheepish nature.

I will continue my vote on TheZeldaPianist. Any false claiming seer no longer deserves to continue.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Reason I'm against a Maestro lynch for right now is his response to my accusations. He just kinda gave up. That seems to me a bit like he's wanting to die, which wouldn't make sense from a human or Monika standpoint. Or even a wolf? Unless you're just deadweight, and there are two roles that are deadweight (coincidentally for the wolves): needy and traitor.

Now...
I'm not quite sure about the whole seer thing, but SuperMarina has proof while TZP, you haven't shown logs. I'd like to see some. For now, my vote tentatively rests on Lkjhgfdsa_77, since I know you are inactive quite a bit.

The reason I pick Lkj? Well... I was marked last night, and I only spoke to Maestro & Lkj. And Maestro would have no reason to respond the way he did if he were Monika. I hate to connect dots, but we can't go very much farther at all with Monika alive, so conclusions must be made.

[FireArrow]

phase ends in 4 hours, so Lkjhgfdsa_77. 3 wolves alive, 1 monika, and 1 tratior. We need to keep our votes consolidated.

[FireArrow]

Not voting TZP because there's no way in hell he's anything but the traitor.

[Charu]

There we go, we got ourselves a counter.

However, I gots a bit of a problem with it I hope you can answer.

Your log showed that brainy knew before you came to them that they were a role when that's simply not possible. Human players do not know they are the brutal human, Miller, or Sayori role at all upon game start. So how did Brainy know that they were a role?

...

Anyways, I'd like to believe you, trust me. It's just one more detail I want resolve and I don't know if you can provide the answer that I'd like to hear.

UNVOTE

I will consider what this means.

[E. Gadd Industries]

As it were, what he told me (like, D1), is that mikey seems to have given him a special role in the story, and so he thought it meant he was a special. Of course, the storyline is not indicative of anything, it's just for dramatic purposes only. But he didn't seem to think so.

[SuperMarina]

That and more so, his playstyle.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Sorry I jumped in, I just now realised that question wasn't directed to me😬 I just thought I should answer since he shared his sentiments with me