NinSunMoon: NinSheetMusic Official Friendly Semicompetitive Professional Tourney

[Dudeman]

Please ban evasion. It only serves to make the game 10 times more luck based and relies less on skill and more on cheapness. If evasion-boosting abilities are also usually banned in the competitive scene then I'd advocate for that as well.

Also, Sleep Clause, if that's not already under consideration.

[mikey]

Sleep clause completely invalidates butterfree, so that's not happening
Honestly sleep clause is the only thing about pokemon showdown that I hate and I'm not sure why it exists
But I will ban evasion

[Dudeman]

To the best of my knowledge, Sleep Clause exists because Sleep is a generally overpowered status condition. The opposing Pokémon can do literally nothing for at least two turns (if you're lucky), and if you switch out to deal with the Sleep-inducing threat and it puts that Pokémon to sleep as well, you're looking at a generally broken strategy. Sleep allows for instant free switches, stat buffs until the cows come home, etc, etc. If Sleep Clause isn't instituted then I might drop out. Why not run Spore on everything if it's allowed? That's sure to be sportsmanlike.

EDIT: I'm aware only four evolutionary lines can learn Spore (five if you include Smeargle) but come on man

[FireArrow]

Holy shit we're having sleep clause. I'd much rather deal with evasion and OHKO moves.

[mikey]

The fastest spore user in the game is technically smeargle and good luck sketching that.  Let's assume butterfree is the most consistent sleep sweeper.  Butterfree's base speed is easily beatable before a quiver dance, and after a quiver dance is generally fragile enough to be KO'd by a priority move.  There's no way a sleep clause needs to be necessary.  It's not in the same vein as other bans, which have been removing blatant rng and restricting pokemon more powerful than the rest.  IF it's determined to be an issue after the exhibition games then I'll ban it but I promise it's not as unfair as you say it is

Edit for ninja: remember, this is pre pokebank.  A lot of strategies you might be used to on certain pokemon are inaccessible.  I'd like to give it a chance at least because some pokemon need the viability and if they can only sleep one pokemon they become essentially useless

[Dudeman]

Your argument reeks of "I'm only using this because you can beat me under the right circumstances." Anyone can beat anyone under the right circumstances, that doesn't mean your strategy is any less cheap.

lol "some pokemon need the viability" tiers exist for a reason

EDIT: actually this:

It's not in the same vein as other bans, which have been removing blatant rng and restricting pokemon more powerful than the rest.

is exactly why sleep clause exists, sleep is blatant RNG and makes pokemon more powerful than the rest

[mikey]

You're assuming I'm using sleep sweepers

-Magnezone
-Dragonite
-Azumarill
-Lycanroc
-Togekiss
-Miltank

[mikey]

Sleep isn't blatant rng, pretty sure it lasts from 1-3 turns.  I'd also like to point out that battle spot doesn't have sleep clause and it's still not absurdly powerful there.
There's a reason sleep didn't get nerfed when thunder wave and toxic did, it's because it's weaker, not stronger.

[SlowPokemon]

My vote: Don't ban sleep. Banning evasion is already annoying. In addition to it being a legitimate status condition that is relatively hard to set up without Yawn (most Pokémon that use Spore can be 1HKO fairly easily), banning it also makes Pokémon who have Insomnia or Vital Spirit have useless abilities.

Edit: Noc is also right, it never lasts more than three turns.

[mastersuperfan]

My vote: Don't ban sleep. Banning evasion is already annoying. In addition to it being a legitimate status condition that is relatively hard to set up without Yawn (most Pokémon that use Spore can be 1HKO fairly easily), banning it also makes Pokémon who have Insomnia or Vital Spirit have useless abilities.

Edit: Noc is also right, it never lasts more than three turns.

Well, Sleep Clause doesn't ban it entirely.

[mikey]

Yeah but then you've got like resttalkers and stuff.  Sleep clause makes it essentially a 5v5 but in favor of the sleeping pokemon because it can wake up

[SlowPokemon]

What is Sleep Clause exactly? Like in simple terms.

[mikey]

No more than 1 pokemon may be asleep at one time.  On showdown the move simply fails, but in this case the user would be dq'd

[FireArrow]

It's just to prevent sleep users from putting your entire team to sleep or putting you in a situation where you have exactly one turn on every pokemon in the game to KO something.

[mikey]

I've never seen either of those situations happen.  Sleep is super good in-game, but in a competitive setting it's just another status you should be prepared for.  Are you telling me your strategy for other status moves is hope they miss?  Or do you have ground types or dark types or steel types or pokemon with limber and poison heal or heal bell