Key Signature for Modes?

[Tobbeh99]

I never got around what key signature to use for modes. If you should use the one that is correct in respect to the amount of sharps/flats, or if you should use the one with the modes Major/Minor scales key signature. For example if you have song in D-Dorian, should you use the key signature with no flats/sharps (same as A-minor/C-major), or the one with 1 flat (as D-minor). I think you could use both depending on the case, which makes the most sense, as I have, intuitively, sometimes wanted the 1st method, and sometimes the 2nd method. The 1st seems good when dealing with a lot of sharps/flats as it makes it easier to read and requires less accidentals, it can seem redundant constantly having sharps/flats where it wouldn't be needed. The 2nd method makes more sense on a theoretical level, as if you see the key signature with 1 flat, you probably would think that the songs tonic either is F-major or D-minor.

So I wonder are both methods OK, or is one right and the other one wrong? 

[Altissimo]

Olimar will tell you to use a minor signature for minor/Aeolian, Phrygian, and Dorian modes and major for major, Lydian, and Mixolydian modes. Ben will tell you to use the key signature that represents the overall musical content of the piece. It depends on who's accepting your arrangement lmao (though i have had 2 arrangements accepted by Ben that used the minor/major key signature and not the modal signature). Personally I understand the theoretical basis behind Olimar's method but I personally believe that the majority of our userbase doesn't know/care about theory and would rather just have a sheet where the accidentals are clearly indicated by the key signature and not everywhere else in the piece.

[Tobbeh99]

Y, kind of what I thought as well. I think both methods have their times, sometimes one seems better, other time the other seems better.

[daj]

Ooh. Hmm.

What is definite is that the key signature should point you very nicely to the tonic. That is, no matter what version of the key you're in, if you're in A you should either have three sharps or nothing; if you're in F you should have one or four flats. That's the ground rule for scoring tonality for sure - align it to the tonic, which almost all the time serves as your tonal centre. Yadda yadda.

From there, yes, Olimar's method of defining which mode is major and minor usually works. Most modal works, at least in VGM, seem to comply quite obediently with the notes in the scale. But just as you can have accidentals in a piece with a major/minor tonality, a piece that's in a mode doesn't always have to comply to the scale. So that's when it gets tricky.

In those cases I normally look for cadence points. A mode should still be defined based on whether it is "major" or "minor", and a nice V-I cadence lying around somewhere is a good giveaway to the true tonality of the piece. It's kinda how I scored my Route 216! ^^ The middle section alternates between D major and D minor chords, but at the end of each phrase is a resolution to D major, so even though there are no C-sharps at all in the section (which btw is based on the blues scale haha, more confusion), I chose to score it in D major. Gershwin takes the same approach in all of his works that I've read so far~

TL; DR:
A key should highlight the tonal center.
A mode is usually either "minor" (Dorian, Phryian, Aeolian), "major" (Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian), or that weird one which you probably won't see.
If the accidentals make it confusing, look for cadential points.

edit!: oh yes! An exception should be made for the Picardy 3rd. If everything is minor until the V-I cadence at the end (or wherever it is) then yeah, it's a minor key and the Picardy 3rd should be recognised as such

~

Hehe, that was kinda satisfying. Theory is fun!
Hope it kinda makes sense, will be willing to clarify ^^

[Olimar12345]

That way of identifying the key signature through my experience requires more unnecessary work. It's as if you're working the possibilities of all four answer choices of a multiple choice math problem rather than use a formula to solve the problem at hand; it works, but seems like more work than it needs to be. I've found that identifying tonic first makes it simple: once you know that note is tonic, identify if it is in a major or minor tonality, then use any regularly reoccurring oddities to that as pointers for the mode. For example: I hear that a piece has a definite tonic pitch of A and sounds like it's in minor, easy: A minor. Then I notice there are a lot of F sharps throughout, I might want to consider if it is in the Dorian mode. Just remember that the modes are split into major and minor categories:

Phrygian, Aeolian, and Dorian are the minor modes, ordered from most lowered pitches to least.

Mixolydian, Ionian, and Lydian represent the major modes, again ordered from most lowered pitches to least (with Lydian having a raised pitch (4)).

Locrian is the bastard child mode, being based on the seventh scaled degree and essentially being a "diminished" mode (and being pretty damn hard to tonicize lol).

Although being able to recognize these modes in music can be extremely useful, I would never notate them using the key signature. I reserve that spot for displaying tonic, using accidentals to represent the modes. For example, C Lydian would be written in C major with the F sharps written out. This way at first glance the performer may more easily identify that C is tonic and the alterations are clearly marked. I would almost argue that this way would display the mode BETTER than having it all of the accidentals in the key signature because the performer is treated to an abundance of clarity, both with the identification of tonic (when you see one flat in the key signature, you instinctively think "F major or D minor" before the rest of the modes) and the manual visual representation of the altered pitches that characterize the specific mode.

Man I think I'm rambling lol.

[Dekkadeci]

When I transcribe music, I'm naturally prone to agreeing with Olimar12345.

Problem is, every time I recall my music theory lessons, they agree with the OP's 1st method.

(I'm going to submit a C# minor-like VGM transcription soon where every single D has a natural sign on it. Figuring out which key and mode it's actually in won't be fun...)

[JDMEK5]

(I'm going to submit a C# minor-like VGM transcription soon

Check to make sure it isn't Eb minor.

[daj]

Check to make sure it isn't Eb minor.

Orrrr if it sounds remotely like Symphony of Psalms/is stupidly emo, it could be Phrygian mode!~

[mikey]

it seems to me like it would be more correct to write it in the key signature that the ionian key has and just adding accidentals for the mode it's in if that makes sense

[JDMEK5]

it seems to me like it would be more correct to write it in the key signature that the ionian key has and just adding accidentals for the mode it's in if that makes sense

I would agree if my theory books didn't illustrate the example key of C dorian with the key signature of C ionian despite having a D tonality. Rather than writing D ionian and using naturals on F and C.

[Olimar12345]

^but lol, like every theory book does that as a graphic aid, illustrating how modes work; they're not showing you how to notate them. (Can say this for the four theory books I use lol)

[FireArrow]

I've always done it this way:

1) Identify the tonic.
2) Is the 3rd lowered a half step? If yes use the minor key signature for your tonic, if no use the major key signature.

[JDMEK5]

And if the 2nd is lowered as well? (as an example)

[Altissimo]

Phrygian - a minor mode.

[JDMEK5]

Phrygian - a minor mode.

That's problematic word usage but I get the point.