General Pokémon Mystery Dungeon

[mikey]

I thought grovyle was your pokemon in the real world, who came with you

[K-NiGhT]

Don't think that was ever established?

[mikey]

fairly sure it said so in the game, where else would I have gotten it  from

[K-NiGhT]

where at? I've played those games several times and have never even heard mention of the player being Grovyle's trainer, only that they were "partners."

[mikey]

I haven't played it for like 3 years, but generally when I'm thinking something I've gotten it from somewhere

[K-NiGhT]

Hmm...I've been playing through the game again recently, so I'll let you know if that comes up anywhere. I'm fairly certain that their relationship is only referred to as a partnership.

[Bubbles]

Grovyle was definitely the human-you's partner, but idk if it was in the human world or not. From what I remember you were a human in the destroyed future and when you went back in time you became the Pokemon.

Actually, is there even a human world in Time/Darkness/Sky? I thought you were just a lone human living in the future or something. You disappeared because your future disappeared, not because you returned to your other world like the other games. That would explain how Grovyle was a partner and not a caught Pokemon because the entire concept wouldn't have existed if humans weren't all over the earth

[K-NiGhT]

Grovyle was definitely the human-you's partner, but idk if it was in the human world or not. From what I remember you were a human in the destroyed future and when you went back in time you became the Pokemon.

Actually, is there even a human world in Time/Darkness/Sky? I thought you were just a lone human living in the future or something. You disappeared because your future disappeared, not because you returned to your other world like the other games. That would explain how Grovyle was a partner and not a caught Pokemon because the entire concept wouldn't have existed if humans weren't all over the earth

See that's the thing. We don't know that there isn't a human world in Explorers. All we're told at the end is that the player and Grovyle will "disappear" once the future is corrected. And even then, in one of those special episodes in Sky I'm pretty sure that Grovyle, Celebi, and Dusknoir end up not disappearing and time just starts back up again. Besides, having a single human living in a world of entirely Pokémon is a little strange, isn't it?

[SlowPokemon]

Grovyle was 100% the Pokémon partner of you, a human. It said so in game multiple times.

[K-NiGhT]

Grovyle was 100% the Pokémon partner of you, a human. It said so in game multiple times.

Yeah, I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm saying that "partner" could mean that they were on a team at one point. Nocturne made it seem like the relationship was Trainer/Pokemon.

[SlowPokemon]

Errr that was the implied relationship tho, Trainers are supposed to have bonds with their Pokémon like that

[K-NiGhT]

Errr that was the implied relationship tho, Trainers are supposed to have bonds with their Pokémon like that

well, that's true, but if they wanted the player to be a Trainer, then they could've said that they were Grovyle's Trainer, not their partner. Gardevoir referred to Gengar as her Trainer.

[Bespinben]

The term "Trainer" brings with it a whole bandwagon of Poké-cultural implications -- battling, training, tournaments, gyms, etc. -- all of which are foreign concepts to the Mystery Dungeon universe. If anything, the closest analogue would be akin to the types of relationships that Pokémon Rangers forged with Pokémon, except on a more long-term basis.

Gengar is a bit of an enigma, but since he is formerly a human as well from the Main Series universe, it would make sense he (and Gardevoir) would be acquainted with such Poké-cultural things belonging to the Main Series.

[SlowPokemon]

well, that's true, but if they wanted the player to be a Trainer, then they could've said that they were Grovyle's Trainer, not their partner. Gardevoir referred to Gengar as her Trainer.

Ohhhhh that's true, I forgot about that.

[Bespinben]

Just finished the main story of Gates to Infinity.

My thoughts?

Well, I liked it for what it was. It's just not great when compared to the other two games. And that's definitely not nostalgia blindness, since I've been playing Rescue Team and Explorers alongside it and have been having a much better time.

I guess I just felt like responding now, lol.

If we're going to make a comparison between the games, I think it would be fair to address specifics. Sure, there's the slow text speed, minimal starter selection, yadayadayada-- all true points, but are ultimately insubstantial cosmetics. What about the plot? the character development? the themes? the atmosphere?

I'm not addressing K-NiGhT specifically with the following breakdown, but I'd like to address maybe at least one common complaint about the meat of Gates - "it's not as dark as Explorers". On the contrary, I believe Gates actually was darker than Explorers in regards to the themes they touch upon. I think most of us would agree that Explorers had the overall more engaging story throughout, but despite the atmosphere of the bad future and actions such as Dusknoir's betrayal and Grovyle's sacrifice, it was all fairly standard heroic fare. You have your heroes and you have your villains, and you struggle to overcome challenges to eventually defeat the latter.

Gates, on the other hand, had heroes and victims - victims of circumstance or wrongdoing that resulted in a deeply cynical worldview. While the story itself lacked something truly tying it all together until the last third of the game (resulting in a lot of dismayed PMD fans giving up before making it to that tipping point [which I'd argue is the Munna-revelation/Hydreigon arc]), Gates treads on more down-to-earth, negative emotional themes. Throughout the game you have Pokemon who have become disillusioned with their pursuits, starting with the Gurdurr crew and continuing on to include Munna's gang and their intention to effectively perform a group suicide. These are issues of genuine negativity that can't be solved by only going up to someone and beating them up. Even the (brief) postgame looks at your partner questioning the value of your victory after losing you.

Gates was dark because it looked more deeply into emotional wounds and negativity. It may not have been anything nearly as grand as saving the world from a post-apocalyptic future, but the willingness to explore ideas of depression and suicide - in a Pokemon game, no less - makes Gates one of the darkest ones in the series. These are genuine inner demons that many people have struggled with. My impression is that Gates is less about defeating villains than about convincing others that life is still worth living.