Octave Clefs?

[Latios212]

When browsing sheets around here, I occasionally stumble upon some octave clefs. Usually the octave bass clef, this one right here:



I was wondering when octave clefs should or shouldn't be used, as opposed to using 8va/vb.

While I see them in some sheets that need to be replaced anyway (see this one) I've also seen them in recent arrangements (like this). Also, I noticed this one from a while back has been revised to not include octave clefs.

But the point is, when are these okay to use? I've heard that some people frown upon them, and I do as well because sometimes I don't notice it while reading a sheet and I think 8va/vb makes it clearer. What do you guys think about these?

[Dudeman]

While uncommon, octave clefs are useful if a certain hand is consistently playing in a ridiculously high or low octave throughout the entire piece. That being said, since our arrangements are supposed to be playable and sound good, generally if a piece's bassline is low enough that an octave clef is necessary, you should just transpose the bass an octave higher.

[Bespinben]

In all honesty, ottava clefs don't belong in piano music. If I were to revise "Wish for Peace", I would instead make a note at the beginning saying "always 8va both hands", because yes, as you said, most people wouldn't even notice the tiny "8"s on the clefs. As for "Post Town", that's not on-site yet, and probably won't be until I re-write it (1) In swing time, and; (2) without the 8vb bass clef. It's definitely a handy notation (I wouldn't have used in my personal arrangement otherwise), but it just doesn't belong in an official publication.

(Technically nothing on NSM is official, but that's the model we're striving for anyway ^.^")

[Maelstrom]

I only really use if the other clef is different then normal. E.g. if the bass clef is a treble, I'd make the treble an ottava, provided it's that way for the entire piece. Same thing the other way around.

[Olimar12345]

Octave clefs are something you use if you don't want your submission to be accepted d:

[Sebastian]

Octave clefs are something you use if you don't want your sibmission to be accepted d:

^
Hahaha
I don't really like them and agree with Bespinben: That they shouldn't be used in piano music.

[JDMEK5]

If you've seen any choral music you'll see that the tenor line is an octava bassa treble clef. These clefs are used but almost never in piano.

[Sebastian]

If you've seen any choral music you'll see that the tenor line is an octava bassa treble clef. These clefs are used but almost never in piano.

You're exactly right.
My parents sing in a chorale and I've taken a peak at their music before.

[Tobbeh99]

The pokémon song: it dosn't make sense to put an 8va clef there, just makes it look more complicated.

I was also wondering if you actually can use them. I used one in this song:[ZIP] because it's short and it looks a bit cleaner, instead of having a line above throughout the song. However it's probably the only song in which I've used one. But it seams like most people here are against it, so shall I remove it?

[InsigTurtle]

You could also add a note telling performers to play the upper clef one octave higher throughout the whole piece.

[Latios212]

Whoops, I forgot to thank everyone for responding here!

It seems that the general consensus is to avoid using them whenever possible. Some sheets, instead of using octave clefs, have the "play this an octave higher" note which I personally like much better because it's more clear to the player.

[MaestroUGC]

As someone who regularly makes arrangements that stay on the extreme ends of the piano, I for one see no reason to use octave clefs if you will be in those ranges for long periods of time. I find it's much easier to read like that and doesn't clutter the sheet by having a line across half the score on top of ledgers lines in some cases.

The argument that "most players won't read the "8" symbol" is frankly dumb. If you're studying any piece of music you'll notice those little markings. Sure, you might miss it on a first sight reading, but there's no reason a half-way competent musician can't see that, especially if there's a clef change midway through the score.

[Olimar12345]

Well, as an actual student of composition and arranging and semi-professional composer (I guess I can technically say that now), I can guarantee that the octave clef has no place in piano literature. The clef is, as stated before, a symbol for choral/vocal music. It is the amateur's and lazy-man's excuse to writing out transposed sections. There is nothing wrong with using the 8va symbol (bracket or not), or simply instructing via text that a passage be transposed. It really isn't rocket science.

You wouldn't use, say, the alto clef in piano literature these days, now would you?

[Sebastian]

Well, as an actual student of composition and arranging and semi-professional composer (I guess I can technically say that now), I can guarantee that the octave clef has no place in piano literature. The clef is, as stated before, a symbol for choral/vocal music. It is the amateur's and lazy-man's excuse to writing out transposed sections. There is nothing wrong with using the 8va symbol (bracket or not), or simply instructing via text that a passage be transposed. It really isn't rocket science.

You wouldn't use, say, the alto clef in piano literature these days, now would you?

You're exactly right. I asked my dad (a piano performance major and masters degree in composition) came to the same conclusion.