Debate Topic

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

The world is probably enough evidence for a God to exist yet people decide to ignore that evidence
why can't I ignore your holy textbooks

Not really. There are plenty of explanations of how things existed- the bit we haven't figured out yet is where it all came from.
Saying God did it only leaves a bigger question- where this "God", whether it's the God of Catholicism or of Islam, himself came from. And saying he's always been there doesn't explain it. That's a cop out.
Furthermore, while you can make a semi decent case for a god existing somewhere, you still have to explain why you pick (presumably) Christianity over any of the other thousands of religions or just ancient texts that tell the same stories.
For example, the Epic of Gilgamesh. This book far predates the Bible, and tells basically the same story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

[FireArrow]

Guys this is off topic. Let's finish our lovely evolution tea party before we do john cena vs. christians round 2.

[Ruto]

Lots of good answers here, but I'm going to keep linking THIS SITE until I'm sure someone learns something. Here is the answer to macroevolution.

Of course, there's the good old Campbell Biology text. Now for $19.95+shipping! Lots of knowledge for less than 2 movie tickets!

The other facts I remember about fruit flies. Scientists have been breeding them in labs since about 1950 for experiments. They show physical differences from fruit flies (in color, wings) found flying in your house, near rotten carrots you forgot to throw out. It took ~1000 generations for that to happen. (hey, we are observing fruitflies changing in the lab!) Insects are pretty complex even if they're small, since they can fly, see with compound eyes and can listen with their antennae and legs, so they are definitely what you call "macro."

We couldn't see atoms back during Dalton's time, so does that mean that atomic theory was baloney until we could take pictures of it? No. I think you're the one who's a little confused here. Lol the faith statement is in the talkorigins index too. But no one can convince you if you deny ALL evidence. I mean, even if I had a DNA cam for Wolverine from X-men growing in utero, you'd still deny it. Because you like to deny evidence for no reason other than "MY BELIEF" or "MY IGNORANCE."

Does anyone know that squid and mollusks have a common ancestor with a shell? While clams still have a real shell, the one in the squid has been reduced to this feather shaped thing in its body because it doesn't need it for predators. Evolution.

Also, this video. The guy holding the banana thinks he should be teaching creationism to impressionable kids because that's what the alternative is to evolution in this country. The guy with his hand too close to his crotch doesn't understand evolution one bit, so he's backing him up.

DON'T read the comments unless you want to see the thousands of comments about "guess what else is made/shaped for my hands"

[Waddle Bro]

Science has honestly become the religion of today in more ways than one, but especially in the sense that if you question it you'll be attacked by the inquisition.

I don't think you're really sure what science means if you're calling science a religion. Science doesn't tell or ask you to believe in anything, so you can't call it a religion in any sense .-.

And saying that my not seeing=not believing is ridiculous backfires, because that's the definition of science. Science, as defined by the Oxford American Dictionary, is "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." I cannot see gravity. I cannot see the wind. I cannot see individual atoms. But I can run experiments and take measurable observations to determine that these things exist. You cannot do that with evolution. You cannot observe it. You cannot run an experiment to prove it exists. That's what scientists have been doing with the fruit flies for generations. And guess what? No new species of fruit fly. It takes more faith to believe that evolution occurred than to believe in intelligent design. That's it. That's all there is to it. And unless someone presents to me an observed instance of macroevolution, which is measurable and repeatable in a controlled setting, no one will convince me otherwise. *mic drop*

bro you dropped your mic a bit early there better pick it back up because I bet you're still gonna keep replying to this topic
first of all "seeing" never actually meant literally seeing in this case, but observing. and you can sense the movement of the air, the atoms and the effects of gravity.
unlike religion, science doesn't tell you to believe in anything. in fact you're believing in the world that you're "living" in right now, since you can't know if it's for example a dream or something else(for example, the Matrix). even though according to epistemology, the knowledge we get is enough to explain the world, there is no such thing as "absolute truth" that guarantees how what we observe is reality. cogito ergo sum guarantees my existence tho

"It takes more faith to believe that evolution occurred than to believe in intelligent design. That's it. That's all there is to it. And unless someone presents to me an observed instance of macroevolution, which is measurable and repeatable in a controlled setting, no one will convince me otherwise."

please do share how have you been able to define the amount of faith it takes to believe in anything, do you measure it with teaspoons or like with a ruler?
all sass aside, lack of evidence can't be considered as evidence, so you can't use that to back your stubborn claims.

[FireArrow]

DON'T read the comments unless you want to see the thousands of comments about "guess what else is made/shaped for my hands"

Hey, it's true...

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

Responding to Noc's post earlier here, instead of the relationship topic, to keep from derailing the latter.

for someone who's so smart, you sure make a lot of common grammar errors

When did I claim to be smart? Also, yes, I forgot commas. Thank you, it has been noted.

anyway, a lot of people on this site are pretty dumb when it comes to important topics

There's a difference between uneducated and people who have differing views. I won't put words in Blue's mouth, but I sense that many things that you find laughable are positions that can be defending intelligently.
 

and blue was sick of trying to explain to these certain people exactly what they were doing wrong (hint: calling people bigots for standing up for their beliefs is not a cool thing to do)

It's not necessary a "cool" thing to do, but it's justifiable if their viewpoint is bigoted.
Take for example, the KKK. I think everyone on this forum can concede that all active members of the KKK who join of their own free will, agree with the ideology, etc. are racist bigots.
Now, toning it down to where Blueflower stands/stood (which, as I understand it, was against gay marriage), what are the arguments against gay marriage?
1) Personal religious beliefs
2) . . . . . . .
Well I guess there's the "it's bad for society" but that's just stupid. 1) Believe it or not, gay marriage was legalized and the US didn't implode upon itself. It was really quite a shocking incident, the whole "not imploding" thing. 2) If you honestly believe that giving people equal rights when they didn't have them because of their sexual preferences is harmful in any way,
welp,
Here's the definition of "bigot" from Merriam Webster:
"a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc"
And if you believe that giving gays equal marriage rights is morally harmful, you fit right into that definition, friend.
 

So it wasn't those 2 threads that caused problems, it was the people ridiculing him for his personal ideology

....which happened almost exclusively in those two threads, save for when it came up in a topic like the Rant topic and Thought of the Moment, and were inevitably moved into the two topics.
Also, here's a thing. Ideas don't inherently deserve respect. They deserve acknowledgement. We acknowledge the beliefs of the KKK, and then we realize Hey, you're hating this person because of literally how much a certain pigment (melanin) is in their skin. That's f***ing stupid and bigoted.
It's the same deal with those opposed to the legalization of gay marriage (on principle, I mean, as obviously it won't be reversed); if you don't want someone to have equal rights because of how they express themselves sexually (read: something that has no effect on your being or life), you fit the definition of a bigot.

Also why even post 16 days late about something that doesn't even have to do with the topic
PDS pls

Yeah, I s'pose it is a bit of a topic bump, 2.3 weeks and all (or whatever the decimal is). And it's somewhat related; there seems to be this myth going around that Blueflower was secretly chased out with pitchforks and torches. Not the case. That said, I'll do my best to avoid unnecessary bumps in the future. Happy?

[FireArrow]

Summary of conversation:

PDS: Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe that blue left as a childish way to run away from opposing opinions and/or as a martyr for his beliefs.
Noc: Nah, he left because everyone is an idiot and everyone that disagrees with me is an idiot!
Ruto: Idiot.
Modman: As you can see, no one has done anything wrong as of yet.
Dude: lol

[Ruto]

I wouldn't waste my time arguing with a bunch of people stuck in their tiny little worlds because of their lack of education and life experiences. I'd rather talk to manio. Yesterday he tried to cook a fish.

[Clanker37]

I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone to be nice. Debates and arguments are essential for a healthy democracy, but sunshine and butterflies keep the meadow bright. Let's try and prevent the cloud of toxicity from descending again?

[Waddle Bro]

Why does anyone care about the blue thing, he left so there's no point in arguing about why he did it, it doesn't involve us or doesn't have any effect on anything?

No one's been insultingly burned yet. Let's keep it that way.

I get that it's your first day on the job but you shouldn't let convos get out of hand like:

hope you know you're one of those people 

- No attacks on other users in the form of trolling, flaming, etc.

[braix]

I never bothered to look at this thread because I'd assumed that everyone would be mature enough to handle calm debates. However, that doesn't seem to be the case--keeping my eye on this thread.
Calling someone an idiot =/= debating. Take that stuff sonewhere else.

[Waddle Bro]

Read this throughly and Sootopolis said everything well but I need to point out

Also, here's a thing. Ideas don't inherently deserve respect. They deserve acknowledgement. We acknowledge the beliefs of the KKK, and then we realize Hey, you're hating this person because of literally how much a certain pigment (melanin) is in their skin. That's f***ing stupid and bigoted.

that actually all ideas do deserve your respect, as long as those ideas are rational and respectful to other ideas. That's why no one can demand people to respect beliefs, because beliefs ignore other ideas since beliefs try to tell us how things are, ignoring the fact that they could be wrong. For example, Christianity doesn't respect love between people of same gender or the chance of a god not existing. You can respect beliefs if you want, like Christians do, but no one is required to respect those ideas.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

Ideas deserve respect only if they are tolerant of other ideas and haw valid points to be made. We don't "respect" the idea that 2+2=22, it simply isn't true. Also, what is the standard for an idea being rational? Purely hypothetical question.

[Dudeman]

Summary of conversation:

PDS: Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe that blue left as a childish way to run away from opposing opinions and/or as a martyr for his beliefs.
Noc: Nah, he left because everyone is an idiot and everyone that disagrees with me is an idiot!
Ruto: Idiot.
Modman: Y'all are a few steps away from action being taken, but knocking you guys down a few pegs for simply calling each other idiots is an irrational and abusive use of power. Which I would be hounded just as strongly for.
Dude: lol

ftfy

[Dude]

God damnit we were so close to being over it.