Introducing Our New Submissions System

[Olimar12345]

Let them keep their title though.

*Facepalm*

[FireArrow]

fine den

[Bubbles]

I understand why the VAs shouldn't be automatically promoted to updaters, but what's wrong with the mini-updater status? Basically, they'd check the sheets the same as the updaters, but they just wouldn't actually update anything onto the site

[FierceDeity]

I'm still confused as to why we can't just up the submission limit :/
Like, our "purpose" was to get more sheets onto the site with considerably less effort on the updaters' part, and that's still just as doable with this system. We haven't outlived our purpose, you just haven't given us any chance to fulfill it yet. I fail to see any way that this new submissions system complicates our position.

Keep in mind, the plan before was to put our arrangements into separate updates. In comparison to that, there's no way people could possibly find a raised limit for VAs to be "unfair" to the other arrangers. It would have EXACTLY THE SAME EFFECT as what we originally intended: those whose sheets require less time to look over are able to get more arrangements through more quickly.

Whether we add any gimmicky roles or not, we haven't "outlived" anything.

[MaestroUGC]

This whole Veteran Arrangers thing is "outliving" its usefulness to me the longer I go without obtaining the position.

[Cobraroll]

I really see no reason to have more updaters with the new system, since their work basically boils down to "press a button to upload, compile an announcement post". If I've understood the new system correctly, the uploading process is significantly faster now than it was before. The uploading itself is not where the problem lies.

If we want the entire process of updating sheets to go faster, we have to look at the entire system. Ideally, I'd add a flowchart here, but I think I can get the point across without one too:

Basically, the updating process is a multi-step process, starting with ideas/requests, then ending with "sheet on site, everybody happy". An arranger creates a rough draft for an arrangement, it is reviewed by peers (everybody who visits the arranger's thread), submitted, reviewed by "mods", and either approved and uploaded to site, or turned down for polishing. If the latter happens, the arranger has to fix what's wrong with it, and resubmit. I'd say the most important treshold of the system is the submission, where the sheets go from being the responsibility of the arranger to the responsibility of the site (represented by the mods). A turned-down submission will be sent back to the arranger for minor corrections, while an accepted one will make it to the site, as-is.

The process has a couple of bottlenecks, where the system is prone to "clogging" unless somebody puts in a great amount of work. Until this new system came online, the submission process has been such a bottleneck, where sheets could only make it from "finished arrangement" to "final review" through a somewhat tedious process involving threads that were opened very rarely, and closed shortly afterwards. However, it was never the only bottleneck, and now that it's fixed, the problem lies elsewhere.

What takes time is the reviewing process. Uploaders will spend a lot of time going through sheets to see if they meet the quality standards, and only then can they upload them or turn them down. One problem is the amount of imperfect sheets making it to the approval stage, because the peer review process, pre-submission, can be sloppy at times. If arrangements are given sufficient feedback before they're submitted, the uploaders will have a lot less work on their hands, and sheets will be uploaded more frequently.

Throwing more uploaders and more mods at the approval stage will help speed up that one stage, true, but it won't help much if all the competent "sheet reviewers" are tasked to concentrate on the post-submission stage instead of going to the arrangement threads themselves and give feedback there. Notably, at this stage anyone can help, regardless of mod status or uploader status or badges or bold letters or stars or post count or whatever.  Go to the arranger's thread, help the fellow format his sheets properly, and then send it to submissions. Pre-submission, anybody can help reviewing, and the arranger decides when a sheet is good enough to submit. Post-submission, the mods/uploaders have to scrutinize it for mistakes, and the more perfect a sheet is at the point of submission, the easier it will be for the mods.

JaMaHa and DekuTrombonist have been concentrating their efforts on speeding up the post-submission part of the process, but there isn't much to be done about the pre-submission. It is the responsibility of the arranger, and his/her peers (that is, everybody) to make the sheet good before it's submitted. That's how we can speed things up. If we fix the problems with a sheet pre-submission, a lot of work in the post-submission stage can be saved. Pre-submission, we can all help. Post-submission, the work is split across only a handful of people.

Hmm... I'll see if I can make that flow chart later.

[Maelstrom]

But the potential updaters are not giving that much feedback in the first place. I've only gotten help on 5 or 6 out of my 20 arrangements on my thread. Granted, they were mostly my earlier arrangements, from when I needed the most help.

[Sebastian]

I understand why the VAs shouldn't be automatically promoted to updaters, but what's wrong with the mini-updater status? Basically, they'd check the sheets the same as the updaters, but they just wouldn't actually update anything onto the site

I agree with Bubbles.
Here's proof the VAs are just as good as the updaters

Really nice! Two small things I pointed out though:

-Chords in the left hand like bar 12 and 20 are very hard to play for me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Maybe you could add parentheses on one of the notes to make it easier for the less-Liszt under us?
-You missed a repeat marking in the last bar. Hurdurhurblurderp.

lol.....Bloop seeing mistakes in Dekus work.....priceless!

[JDMEK5]

lol.....Bloop seeing mistakes in Dekus work.....priceless!

Um, Deku's not a god who never slips. That's the whole reason even Deku's arrangements need an approval from a second updater before being uploaded. I wouldn't say this proves anything. It's using a minority (a huge one) to measure a majority. You're going to need way more data to prove something like that.

[Sebastian]

Um, Deku's not a god who never slips. That's the whole reason even Deku's arrangements need an approval from a second updater before being uploaded. I wouldn't say this proves anything. It's using a minority (a huge one) to measure a majority. You're going to need way more data to prove something like that.

Very True....but is that what I said? I only thought it humurous

[Bloop]

I'M GONNA SAY EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERY UPDATER'S ARRANGEMENT

But nah I agree with JDMEK, everyone here is a human being (except for Zeta), so mistakes will always be there.

[Sebastian]

I'M GONNA SAY EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERY UPDATER'S ARRANGEMENT

But nah I agree with JDMEK, everyone here is a human being (except for Zeta), so mistakes will always be there.

Didnt say Deku or Olimar aren't capable of making mistakes. Again I just thought it humurous
Zeta....lol..

[Sebastian]

Looks like Vas are gone...
Im a little dissappointed though.

[MaestroUGC]

If they are gone it's only because someone like me wasn't part of it to give them status and credibility.

[Olimar12345]

Misc. member groups aren't any trouble to create. If we find a good use for them, we can always use them in the future. It just doesn't look like it will work out at this point in time.

And you guys don't need a title for bragging rights, let your quality arrangements do that for you!