Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire

[Dudeman]

He means that the Sp.Def drop from Metal Sound would have gone away as soon as Blue switched. Stat effects don't stay on a pokemon that switches.

Also it's not technically an effect, 'cause it's a decision the opponent has to make. He doesn't have to switch.

[mikey]

But blue never switches lol
and if they don't switch out they get 2hko'd

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I finished Delta Episode. I now have a desire to catch legendaries and plant berries.

[FireArrow]

I don't think metal sound is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I mean, acid spray is considered a competitive move. That being said, not on heatran.

[mikey]

I think their problem with it is that it's a stat changing move that doesn't affect you which everyone says is bad because even if it makes your next turn OHKO, it was still a 2hko which it could have been just with using the move twice, plus they can switch out to remove the stat change.  I'm guessing acid spray does damage (and I'm guessing it's a newer move) and that's why it's probably used.
On the subject of competitive moves, since when was knock off so strong >.> it's kinda upsetting being swept by it when you remember knock off as being completely useless
but at the same time I'm glad that it's finally good (sorta?)

[Roz~]

Knock off's been like that since XY.
Acid Spray does do dmg, so you can use it on a switch and dent something.
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying there are better options.

[mikey]

yeah I looked it up on bulbapedia.
dumb that it doesn't knock off mega stones though

[Roz~]

Uh, no, since Mega Stones aren't considered items like choice specs/band etc. It makes sense.

[mikey]

IF THEY AREN'T CONSIDERED ITEMS WHY ARE THEY A HELD ITEM
does knock off still do the extra dmg or no?

[BlackDragonSlayer]

IF THEY AREN'T CONSIDERED ITEMS WHY ARE THEY A HELD ITEM

So they can Mega Evolve in-battle.

[FireArrow]

Knock off's been like that since XY.
Acid Spray does do dmg, so you can use it on a switch and dent something.
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying there are better options.

To be fair, a 40 bp poison move isn't gonna dent anything.
"Better options" is a very shaky phrase as it comes down to the needs of you're team. If metal sound helps you out more than a coverage option would, go for it.

[mikey]

we'd better not argue with roz or waddle bro they're pros and always right

[Roz~]

^Yeah, I meant that it does damage. Depending on what gets hit, you can dent it. Or do chip damage if you prefer.
As I said, I'm not saying it's bad. I think attacking twice is better than lowering a stat and have them switch out (not counting if they're stuck in because of shadow tag/mean look/whatever). I don't think metal sound would ever be better than a coverage move that does damage. I'd use it on a gimmicky team for fun. If he wants to use that move, he can go for it. I'm just stating why I don't think it's that great of an option.

IF THEY AREN'T CONSIDERED ITEMS WHY ARE THEY A HELD ITEM
does knock off still do the extra dmg or no?

Because that's the only way it makes sense for a 'mon to be able to mega evolve?
And fine, consider them as items that cannot be removed instead if it makes more sense to you. Kinda like if the 'mon ability was sticky hold.
And no, it does not, because mega stones can't be knocked off, so no extra damage.

we'd better not argue with roz or waddle bro they're pros and always right

Yeah sure. Whatever.

[FireArrow]

Roz~'s opinion right now represents the majority of competitive pokemon, just go on smogon and ask and they'll say the same thing. It's not a matter of egos and titles in this case.

I just personally think the aversion to stat drop moves is a bit of a band wagon without anyone really evaluating it. Similarly with defense boosting moves. Just because something sucks most of the time doesn't mean it doesn't have a niche on some sets.

[Roz~]

^I use a lot of set up moves. I've used Tickle in competitive VGC matches. So no, I don't think they suck most of the time. I really like those kinda moves. I'm just saying it might not be the best option most of the time.