TWG 60: 2fool4skool

[The_Subjective_Thought]

[9:26:24 AM] Mashi: He's too carefree to be a Wolf.
[9:26:53 AM] Otso Syrjänen: I think his playstyle resembles Yugi, but he's just a kid
[9:27:17 AM] Otso Syrjänen: So going all sugar rush on everything wouldn't surprise me from him
[9:27:44 AM] Mashi: Hahaha, probably!

I'm not sure how I should feel about this.

[The_Subjective_Thought]

Also Yugi wants to know what his play style is.

[Mashi]

Yugi tends to be a bit energetic in his thoughts and tends to come up with a lot of conclusions that have potential if organised correctly.

I have no idea what FSM-Reapr and I were talking about, so I just agreed just because, so shhh.

But yeah, I think you're a Fool.

[The_Subjective_Thought]

Thanks for clarifying.

But yeah, I think you're a Fool.

[vermilionvermin]

For the record, I think you're a fool too, TST. 

I'm happy that KitB ended the way it did.

FSM demonstrated some degree of self-preservation by supporting the Mashi lynch.  And he did it with less than 10 minutes remaining in the phase to force a tie.  Yes, he claimed fool.  No, he didn't act like one.  I don't care if he said he was trying to help the humans.  When you claim a fool role and then fight your own lynch it isn't going to end well.

Mashi's line of reasoning seems to me more like he's a fool.  Quotes like

I wouldn't put myself under such a major risk to be lynched Day 1.  Am I a bad Wolf or something???

don't really go well with his story of just joking around.  At that point he already had multiple votes on him.  Arguing that FSM is a fool (he does that later in the post I quoted) is the best way for Mashi to get the lynch to fall on himself.

I really think we need to look hard at people like Bubbles, Davy, and Maestro who supported the Mashi lynch, but I think Bubbles is the most important (then Davy but he's a pretty distant second). 

Bubbles' logic really doesn't follow.  She thinks FSM's lying about being a fool but doesn't want him lynched.  I don't know why she thinks he's lying, but she does.  That's fine.  But him being a human was always the least likely role for him.  There's really no reason for a human to claim fool.  It's so unbelievably risky, confuses the rest of the humans, and the only possible benefit is for you not to get lynched.  The fools aren't going to claim to you because they have no reason to claim to you.  The wolves aren't going to claim to you because they have no reason to risk claiming to you.  Additionally, the timing of her vote's pretty suspicious given that it comes with less than an hour left in the phase (about a half hour before FSM's vote) and gives FSM the ability to try for the KitB.

My biggest reservations about Bubbles being a wolf include that it assumes that FSM is a wolf, which frees up another space for a fool.  And I'm not sure why Bubbles would, as a wolf, take the position that FSM was not a fool if they're both wolves.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

For the record, I think you're a fool too, TST. 

I think you're all fools.

My biggest reservations about Bubbles being a wolf include that it assumes that FSM is a wolf, which frees up another space for a fool.  And I'm not sure why Bubbles would, as a wolf, take the position that FSM was not a fool if they're both wolves.

This logic is sound; something like that wouldn't make sense, as you described.

Though, if FSM isn't a fool (and Mashi/TST are), who would the other fool be?

[Bird]

Also, everyone voted last phase! Good job!

[The_Subjective_Thought]

Okay so we're running with the theory that me and mashi fools and FSM was a wolf.

That leaves a third fool and a second wolf.

Now I can't call the wolf, I'm not too good at this.

But I can call the fool.

Hello there, Mr. Fool. I have a proposal for you.

First off, let me start by giving you a little information. I am a wolf. Whether or not you choose to believe me is up to you, seeing as how it isn't really a concern to you. We have agreed that I be the one to communicate with you, as this is my first time being a wolf, and for our teams' sake, I am the weakest player.

Basically, here's what we're offering you:
On the third night, we will wolf you if you haven't already been killed yet. Pretty much a guaranteed victory on your end.

All we ask in return is that you to create a post in the thread, suspecting me of being a wolf. If you wish, you may post this PM as proof.

Good luck.

This is Olimar's full pm to me.

I edited it a bit when I presented it before because I wanted to see how he planned to respond, as well as how you guys would respond.

For the record I didn't even know you could forge quotes when I posted this before.

[Bubbles]

I knew I was going to be questioned on that post when I voted, but I thought "screw it". I'm guessing you're not going to take the "I wanted FSM to get a croissant not Waddle" excuse (ilu waddle)

FSM voting for Mashi instead of himself when he could've suicided just about proves he wasn't a fool. He's not a player who would miss something like that. So after his death and the red cardflip, he's a wolf to me.

If FSM was my wolf partner, the only reason I would've even drawn attention to myself and voted last phase would be to keep him from being lynched (tying things up with a KitB with Mashi). I guess that makes sense looking back, but why would I be so obvious about it?

Similar to the FSM situation, but i dont want waddle to get that croissant I'm getting a stronger feeling from him

If I were using the Mashi vote as an attempt to save FSM, thats a pretty weak reason. I could've fabricated something way more believable, but I didn't, since that's the truth.

I thought FSM was lying but didn't want him lynched. Why? If he wasn't a fool, that means he was either a wolf or a human. Obviously we would want to lynch the wolf and not the human. Since it was basically a 50/50 shot, I thought it would be better to go after someone else for at least Day 1 so we could get more from him and form a better opinion.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

This is Olimar's full pm to me.

I edited it a bit when I presented it before because I wanted to see how he planned to respond, as well as how you guys would respond.

If you're a fool, I don't know how I could trust that PM...

For the record I didn't even know you could forge quotes when I posted this before.

If Mashi was another fool, and you were in contact with him (through/because of FSM, I assume), then you'd know.

[Greg]

I guess we should thank FSM for basically confirming that Mashi isn't a wolf!


Verm's already said pretty much what there is to say about Bubbles: on the other hand, if you look through davy's big posts last phase, the first thing davy says is that he thinks FSM's claim is a wolf move, but then he instead votes for Mashi even though he doesn't say he leans towards either fool or wolf Mashi. Something to look into, I guess (although it's beyond me why he would say FSM's claim is wolfy in the first place, kind of the same issue as with Bubbles).

welp I guess I'll respond to bubbles

If you could have 'fabricated' something way more believable, wouldn't that necessarily make it a more logical reason that you would have gone with anyways? :S

Also, it makes way more sense for FSM to claim wolf than human. The odds weren't really 50/50 at all. Besides, despite how confusing Mashi was, what he was trying to do didn't hurt the humans at ALL. Asking everyone to claim causes much less risk to the humans than any other team, after all.

[Greg]

also people should come to the chat

[Bubbles]

I didn't make something up just so you guys would believe me. I voted because I felt Mashi was the more suspicious of the two, and, like I said, I wanted to see more from FSM like he'd promised

The odds were 50/50 in my view, so what you guys thought at that time really doesn't mean anything in terms of my vote. What FSM was doing didn't hurt the humans either, in fact he promised to help them.

[The_Subjective_Thought]

If you're a fool, I don't know how I could trust that PM...

Hey, if I'm a fool you could actually just trust it, I'd have no vested interest in other fools survival.

If Mashi was another fool, and you were in contact with him (through/because of FSM, I assume), then you'd know.

Again, remember fools would have no vested interest in each others survival. Plus I had contacting people, I'm anti-social like that.

[Greg]

22:08   gzgregory   wait I just thought of something
22:08   gzgregory   what if FSM and Mashi are partners, and FSM forced the kitb in order to take suspicion off Mashi
22:08   fank009   ...
22:09   bubbles   wolf partners?
22:09   fank009   FSM with his "Im a fool" claim???
22:09   fank009   and people jumping onto it?
22:09   gzgregory   Risky play obviously but it was looking like Mashi was going to be lynched next day phase, or if not then, then later

I think this is definitely a possibility.