TWG 60: 2fool4skool

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Again, remember fools would have no vested interest in each others survival. Plus I had contacting people, I'm anti-social like that.

It's not that they'd have vested interest in each others' survival, but rather that they'd have interest in finding a way to get themselves killed together...

22:08   gzgregory   wait I just thought of something
22:08   gzgregory   what if FSM and Mashi are partners, and FSM forced the kitb in order to take suspicion off Mashi
22:08   fank009   ...
22:09   bubbles   wolf partners?
22:09   fank009   FSM with his "Im a fool" claim???
22:09   fank009   and people jumping onto it?
22:09   gzgregory   Risky play obviously but it was looking like Mashi was going to be lynched next day phase, or if not then, then later

I think this is definitely a possibility.

Then where do TST and/or Olimar factor into this (Olimar because of the possibly fake PM)??

[Bubbles]

Then where do TST and/or Olimar factor into this (Olimar because of the possibly fake PM)??

Do they need to? I think thats a completely separate argument

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Do they need to? I think thats a completely separate argument

TST is directly related to Mashi (see: Mashi's "suspicion list" and other claims about his and TST's "powers"), and Olimar is directly related to TST.

[The_Subjective_Thought]

It's not that they'd have vested interest in each others' survival, but rather that they'd have interest in finding a way to get themselves killed together...

Are you suggesting a suicide pact?

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Are you suggesting a suicide pact?

Well, the fools DO win when they die, and the game DOES end when all the fools are dead...

As I said, if FSM was a fool (or even a wolf), him claiming would allow the fools to... well... die...
Plus, if FSM were a wolf, he'd hopefully know all three fools, but only have two be killed, so that if "things" went bad, they could always kill the third fool...

[The_Subjective_Thought]

How would all three fools knowing each other allow them to die?

Plus you do realise that bird already discounted our "powers"?

Stop being fankish!

[The_Subjective_Thought]

As in on a completely different thought path to everyone else and vaguely incoherent.

(ilu fank.)

[fank009]

Now That I FINALLY have the time to post some "proper" thoughts.


Case against Greg.
That vote against greg was a result of the tip of the iceberg being hit, there is a lot more beneath it. (I just thought that that quote would be enough of a stand for now to place the vote (it sucks being mobile).
It really is hard to explain the reasoning, (putting it in english...) but basically the initail reaction from greg, seems like it came from a wolf than a human. Maybe I have that train of thought due to other interactions. especially those between other fools. \

We definitely should NOT lynch FSM...yet. He's already admitted that he's red. If we have cause to suspect him of being a wolf we can lynch him at any time. There's no point in wasting a lynch on him at this point.

Excerpt from the chat with greg

00:24:48: <fank009> just a quick read... WHY would FSM claim if he is a fool??
00:25:11: <fank009> It goes against the idea of the fool.
00:25:19: <fank009> (unless he is trying to double bluff us...)
00:25:32: <gzgregory> I don't know. But there's even less reason for him to claim if he's a wolf. He'd be risking too much (especially since we can afford to kill one fool).
00:27:06: <fank009> actually I disagree...
00:27:11: <fank009> If all the reds claim fool...
00:27:19: <fank009> wouldnt it be more harmful to town???
00:27:35: <fank009> (humans...)
00:27:50: <fank009> (still got mafia lingo in my head :/)
00:29:03: <gzgregory> What? Of course not.
00:29:14: <gzgregory> Then we'd have to find two wolves out of five people, instead of 15.
00:29:27: <fank009> ...
00:29:29: <gzgregory> Assuming none of the claimers are lying, but there's no reason for a human to claim red, so.
00:29:29: <fank009> remember...
00:29:41: <fank009> lynch the 3 fools its game over.
00:29:47: <gzgregory> Yeah, of course.
00:30:00: <gzgregory> Knowing all five reds still tips odds in our favor.
00:30:22: <fank009> somewhat...
00:30:33: <gzgregory> Still, this purely hypothetical scenario isn't happening, so there's not a whole lot of point to arguing about it.

Because bullets seem to be the way my mind works

The basics of the case
-Reaction from BS roles like mashi/TST is giving me a feel that he thinks its unfair... (and from my experience only wolves have a go at unfairness like that)
-The Italiziced in the chat, looks like he is giving too much info in terms of what Wolves are or are not doing.
-His flip flopping in terms of wolves, and flip flop on thoughts of FSM

All 3 things seem somewhat weak, but they are just descrepancies that I cant avoid, hence why I placed my vote.



The 4 fools
This is My thinking, that Mashi (popular opinion and somewhat becoming believable...), FSM, TST AND olimar are possible fools.

FSM- Leaning fool
I never liked the claim/nor the lean (50/50 either way)... but... considering other things, Who could be FSM's partner??? Wolf wouldnt chuck under the bus so early???

Mashi-
that came out of nowhere. just simply nowhere, the usual Please stuff... but then with some additional inexistant flavour. The scary thing is the connection to TST (and previous experience as scum???)

TST- One of (in my opinion) the biggest uprunners for fool... yet at the same time the biggest uprunner in terms of wolf candidates, the claim to FSM, was very elaborate... IF by itself. Seeing how you and mashi are somewhat together, I feel like you are a team.

Olimar. Now, TST's message to FSM was allright, but Olimar's to TST is either fancy play, or straight foolish.



Leans


Not Fool
Greg- Again, granted reaction between fool leans, and the chat. I dont feel he has the capability of being a fool.

Not Green
-TST/Mashi, Somewhat the same boat... Fools or a scum team.
-Olimar. that message, I could totally see olimar as a wolf buddeh (no offence)
Not a Wolf
-no one really standing out as cleared human yet (who knows, we might be reading the fools wrong...)


Leaning green for the time being,
Waddle- that stalking... (why would a Red Stalk???)
Maestro- No real lean
Bubbles- Somewhat active and contributing, than in other games as scum... so I'll put this here for now.
davy-No real lean, But (I think) something of interest pipped up

Leaning Wolf
BDS- A lot of hugging up to olimar... and is one of my teams with olimar. (that safety on BDS???)
Greg- Again, as stated above... A few Human points gained as of late... and also a Plus for not having a partner for the mean time.


So If anyone cant understand that (Or If I've left anyone out..), I'll more than happy to translate it into english


(Note: I sat on this post for 9 hours, being dragged between real life things and the chat :/, oh and distracted as well)

[Waddle Bro]

Hey I was bored and just clicked Who's Online because bored and saw you

[BlackDragonSlayer]

BDS- A lot of hugging up to olimar...

XD

I wouldn't say that forming logical conclusions about a person is "hugging up," exactly. And remember, me case wasn't that Olimar wasn't a wolf, but rather, that TST is a fool and Olimar isn't (though, now that you mention it, I also don't think that Olimar is too suspicious at this point).

[fank009]

It's my take on it BDS, And it really, caught my eye with your thoughts on olimar...(and you the onlyone doing so in such depth

[davy]

I really think we need to look hard at people like Bubbles, Davy, and Maestro who supported the Mashi lynch, but I think Bubbles is the most important (then Davy but he's a pretty distant second). 

Is there any reason why I should be looked at other than that I supported the Mashi lynch? Also, what makes the difference between Maestro and me?

Verm's already said pretty much what there is to say about Bubbles: on the other hand, if you look through davy's big posts last phase, the first thing davy says is that he thinks FSM's claim is a wolf move, but then he instead votes for Mashi even though he doesn't say he leans towards either fool or wolf Mashi. Something to look into, I guess (although it's beyond me why he would say FSM's claim is wolfy in the first place, kind of the same issue as with Bubbles).

It was mainly a matter of wording (I was not really presice there with the wording, because it was 3 minutes before midnight in my time zone). I said I thought FSM claim was a wolf move, but on the other hand, I agreed with your logic about FSM not being a wolf (which I worded terribly) and I thought it made FSM seem human. Futhermore, even if I had a wolf lean on FSM at that time, I would still have voted Mashi, because while I was not sure if FSM was a wolf, I was sure this game becomes more enjoyable for me when I can use all future posts for finding wolves.

[Olimar12345]

As I said, if FSM was a fool (or even a wolf), him claiming would allow the fools to... well... die...
Plus, if FSM were a wolf, he'd hopefully know all three fools, but only have two be killed, so that if "things" went bad, they could always kill the third fool...

There's no way he(or anyone) could know who all three fools are. Bird said that not even the fools know who each other are. The only ones who would know ANYTHING at the start of the game would be the wolves, and they'd only know who the other wolfed were.

[Greg]

The basics of the case
-Reaction from BS roles like mashi/TST is giving me a feel that he thinks its unfair... (and from my experience only wolves have a go at unfairness like that)
-The Italiziced in the chat, looks like he is giving too much info in terms of what Wolves are or are not doing.
-His flip flopping in terms of wolves, and flip flop on thoughts of FSM

1. That was confusing as hell for basically anyone?
2. ...I mean, I thought it was kind of obvious that not all the fools AND all the wolves were going to claim. That would basically mean that either the fools or the humans would win, which makes it a terrible plan for the wolves.
3. I switched my opinion on FSM because he didn't deliver anything at all and he became the wolfiest person over the course of the day phase.

Anyway yeah I hope this explains stuff.

As for the link between Mashi and TST, Mashi could be doing that even if he had nothing to do with TST just to look more like a fool (which is certainly his goal, if he's a wolf).

[The_Subjective_Thought]

I have no idea why it seems I'm "somewhat together" with Mashi.

I can honestly say I've had no contact with him outside this thread.