TWG LVIII - The Boy's Forest of Tears

[Bird]

lol

[Toby]

Certain players aren't running from the fire fast enough, player 3 for example

Bird has been burned

[Bird]

[Toby]

Don't blame me.

[Bird]

Well, I guess Maestro has still killed more wolves than any of us humans. I don't know if we ever would have caught Liggy!

We got his stuff at least.

[Bubbles]

Bird has been burned

Bird why is it always you that gets hurt by the random things >.> Unless theyre not random...

[Mr. E]

I think it was because he posted first. Anyway, lynches. We don't have any clue how many more wolves are in the game, only that the humans still outnumber them. I'd say that right now Contranegative looks to be in the worst position, and I question the wisdom of killing K-night like that. If people want to discuss stuff, get in the chat. It's so much easier and immediate to talk to people.

[Bird]

As I said before, let's try not to vote until we have a lynch picked out. I'm going to be putting the people I want lynched in red with underlines and the people I want vigi'd in purple with underlines.

So, to start us off, vermilionvermin.

For the most part, it comes back to the k-NiGhT stuff, but I found a very convincing post that indicates k-NiGhT is indeed the real seer:

So do we know what specials there are? For example, is there a guardian so a seer could safely come forward?

That post was made just two hours after the game began. Just two hours after the game began, he was looking for ways for the seer (the role he would go on to claim) to come out. This is just the icing on the cake though. We know he and verm aren't on the same wolf team, since verm helped lynch him, so why would his first post be one that makes verm's claim look legitimate if he were a wolf? And why would he do so without actually announcing that he was the seer? And what are the chances that there's a wolf seer and no human seer? And the fact that he was never counterclaimed, does that mean anything to you? I am more certain than ever, k-NiGhT was the real seer and denying it is absurd.

Let's go back to his lynch. His seer result, seering a box keeper red, is a little unbelievable. But couldn't he have been redirected? Do we even know what happens when the role blocker blocks the seer? Or could Fawful have been a red wolf who started with a box, just as Liggy as now proven to be? I feel like so many questions weren't asked that phase, and it's making me incredibly sure that verm is a wolf.

Let me bring up an argument that I haven't mentioned yet... something that verm brought up himself. It seems a little crazy to have a wolfsbane/bodyguard and a guardian in the same game. Not only that, but if verm was bodyguarding fank009, and fank009 was actually guarding vermilionvermin, the two of them would be invincible. Yet this game was apparently vetted by Manti, who is a very talented TWG player (famous, actually). There's got to be some explanation for this, and I have two. The more likely of them is that one of these two players was lying (since fank009 is confirmed, the liar has to be verm). The other is that there's some kind of role-block the wolves have easy access to. I'm partial to the first one.

This, and the fank wolfing make me believe he's very likely to be a wolf.

Contranegative is my pick for the vigi tonight, but I'm less certain on that one.

[Mr. E]

Also, it's important to make it clear that two wolves have been killed. Had Liggy been a loner, I think it would've been mentioned in the end phase bit, and it should also be noted that Boy said that he could not cry. Well, we aren't able to leave  until the ones who can't cry are dead. So my guess would be that two wolves are dead. By the number of players, I'd guess that there would be four wolves total, which would mean we have two left. After talking with Bird on chat, I feel pretty confident that Verm is a wolf. If you want this retracted, seek me out. I would love to talk to you. I also support a Contra vigi tonight, but we should think about other players just in case he doesn't turn out to be a wolf.

[Bird]

Can Slow and Dude be replaced? They're not posting or responding to PMs about the game.

[Mr. E]

He's working on replacing Slow, but I don't know about Dude.

[vermilionvermin]

Here's my defense.  I'll try to make sure it's as short and sweet as possible.

-By the time I voted for K-Night, two people had already voted him and the next leading vote-getter (Bubbles) only had one vote.  If I were really a wolf I wouldn't have voted so I didn't have to get my hands dirty.

-I turned Liggy over to bird.  Liggy claimed third-party to me and now he's flipped wolf.  So either I turned in my wolf partner to the alliance or Toby lied to us about Liggy's role.  Bird doubts this but I think it's a legitimate defense!

-I pursued the Mariolegofan connection to see if bird was actually telling the truth about that.  I might have done this as a wolf but I think I'd be more active in other areas of the game if I were a wolf using that to feign wolf-hunting.

-If K-Night was a bad lynch and he's actually the seer, then we have a player who's been seered red.

-There's no proof the alliance has been infiltrated.  There was a full night phase without any special deaths and only one special died two nights ago.  I think that's compelling enough evidence that there was no alliance infiltration.

[Bird]

-By the time I voted for K-Night, two people had already voted him and the next leading vote-getter (Bubbles) only had one vote.  If I were really a wolf I wouldn't have voted so I didn't have to get my hands dirty.

This would have put you in the exact same position you're in now. People would be upset at you for not doing anything about the lynch. It's unfair of me to pin the lynch completely on you, but you were the one in the alliance who knew everything from the beginning, and did little to stop what happened. On top of that, I have trouble believing that there was nothing you could have done to get someone else lynched.

You also may not have predicted the fiasco that would blow up in your face the following phase either way!

-I turned Liggy over to bird.  Liggy claimed third-party to me and now he's flipped wolf.  So either I turned in my wolf partner to the alliance or Toby lied to us about Liggy's role.  Bird doubts this but I think it's a legitimate defense!

Liggy is a human-aligned loner who is seered and is flipped red.

(6:27:58 PM) Liggy: so yeah
(6:28:03 PM) Liggy: I'm red actually
(6:28:05 PM) Liggy: which is ridiculous!
(6:28:12 PM) Liggy: so there obviously is miller type role
(6:28:14 PM) Liggy: s
(6:28:19 PM) Liggy: but eh
(6:28:22 PM) bird: but you know you are red
(6:28:28 PM) bird: if fawful knew he was red he should have said something
(6:29:06 PM) Liggy: well I didn't know I was red until now!
(6:29:17 PM) Liggy: when toby said "oh I screwed up your role pm"

-I pursued the Mariolegofan connection to see if bird was actually telling the truth about that.  I might have done this as a wolf but I think I'd be more active in other areas of the game if I were a wolf using that to feign wolf-hunting.

You always create some arbitrary suspicion of me as a wolf.

-If K-Night was a bad lynch and he's actually the seer, then we have a player who's been seered red.

This is so infuriating, why didn't you say anything about this last day phase, jesus.

-There's no proof the alliance has been infiltrated.  There was a full night phase without any special deaths and only one special died two nights ago.  I think that's compelling enough evidence that there was no alliance infiltration.

Pretty sure you said you believed the alliance was infiltrated also, which factored into your decision to help lynch k-NiGhT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're flip-flopping here.

[Toby]

Slowpokemon has been the least active of the two, if anyone can find someone to replace Slowpokemon or Dude that would be splendid.

They can't have already been in the game beforehand though, dimwits.

[Mr. E]

Liggy is a human-aligned loner who is seered and is flipped red.

I refuse to believe this. We can't leave until those who can't cry are all dead. Toby SPECIFICALLY SAID that he can't cry. He had to have been a wolf. There is no other possible explanation that makes sense to me.