TWG LVIII - The Boy's Forest of Tears

[vermilionvermin]

Actually after rereading I'll go with K-Night.  I doubt Contranegative got painted and I'll look for confirmation from the player who got boxes.

[Toby]

The Boy's Forest of Tears

What you can do with the little red boxes:

You can give your box to anyone you want, but not yourself.  If you deposit any box you collected into the tree stump you may choose one of the following:
   -An amount of Four Boxes allow the user to use a Guard
   -An amount of Five Boxes allow a player to use a Kill
   -An amount of Three Boxes allow a player to use an Seer
   -An amount of One Box allows a player to use a Bodyguard
   -An amount of Two Boxes allows a player to use a role block

I won't be happy with anyone who steals leftover boxes.

Chit Chat, anyone?

Vote Count:

Thiannon -
Bubbles – K-Night
SlowPokemon -
Dude - Bubbles
K-NiGhT - Contranegative
Contranegative – K-Night
Vermilionvermin –  Bubbles K-Night

K-Night – 3
Bubbles - 1
___________________________________________________


01. Mashi - Box Keeper Number 5
02. Thiannon
03. Bird
04. BlackDragonSlayer - Brown Wolf
05. Bubbles
06. Mariolegofan - Mason
07. SlowPokemon
08. MaestroUGC - Human
09. Dude
10. Liggy
11. Fank009 - Guardian
12. TheZeldaPianist275
13. K-NiGhT
14. FireArrow
15. Mr. Tanooki Suit
16. Contranegative
17. Mr. E
18. Vermilionvermin

The day was confusing. 4 players had disappeared, but why? The forest was a puzzle and no one could figure it out.
"I think I know what happened" said player 13.
"You seem to know a lot about this forest don't you?" said player 18.
"I was starting to think the same actually..." player 2 muttered.
"What?... You don't think - "
Before player 13 could finish his sentence, player 16 jumped down from a tree directly above player 13 and drove a sharpened stick through his skull. "Well, I guess that settles it" player 16 spoke proudly.
"You dimwit!" shouted player 18. "He was dinner!"
"Oh... damn" replied player 16.

"Guys!... GUYS!" called player 3.

Bird, FireArrow, Mr.E and Liggy have returned to the game.

K-Night has been lynched

Good night players. It is now Night 4. Night 4 ends Tuesday 8pm GMT+1.

Don't let the bed bugs bite...

[SlowPokemon]

how am i not dead yet

[Bird]

Why the fuck did we just lynch our seer rather than a person who was seered red?

[FireArrow]

Why the fuck did we just lynch our seer rather than a person who was seered red?

[Bird]

Here's everything the alliance knows about the game.

01. Mashi - Box Keeper Number 5
02. Thiannon - Claimed Normal Human
03. Bird - Confirmed Mason
04. BlackDragonSlayer - Brown Wolf
05. Bubbles - Claimed Normal Human
06. Mariolegofan - Mason
07. SlowPokemon - Never Claimed
08. MaestroUGC - Human
09. Dude - Never Claimed
10. Liggy - Claimed Loner with 3 boxes
11. Fank009 - Guardian
12. TheZeldaPianist275
13. K-NiGhT - Seer
14. FireArrow - Box Keeper
15. Mr. Tanooki Suit
16. Contranegative - Box Keeper
17. Mr. E - Box Keeper
18. Vermilionvermin - Claimed to be able to survive one wolfing plus had a bodyguard power.

Or to just look at a list with the surviving players' claims...

Spoiler

Bird - Mason
vermilionvermin - Blue who can survive one lynching and has a bodyguard power
FireArrow - Box Keeper
Contranegative - Box Keeper
Mr. E - Box Keeper
Thiannon - Normal Human
Bubbles - Normal Human
SlowPokemon -
Dude -
Liggy - Loner with 3 Boxes

[close]

SlowPokemon and Dude, it would be wise to post your roles in the thread. It's essential for us to know who is what if we are going to win this.

I think the death of fank, our guardian, makes it incredibly clear that the alliance has indeed been infiltrated. He was a suspicious player that nobody really trusted, so him being wolfed out of the blue wouldn't make a lot of sense. And if the wolves have an inside man, the obvious perpetrator is verm. The evidence against him is hard to dismiss:

 - Has a "survives one kill" power, which is a power wolves have had in the past.
 - I was never attacked since verm said he was using his bodyguard power on me, which nobody knew about on night 1. Fank, a confirmed human, expressed his surprise when I lived through the night.
 - Insisted on learning the names of the other box keepers and specials, despite admitting that it wouldn't be wise for that information to be shared.
 - Didn't lynch a red seer result, or even consider lynching the red seer result.
 - Allowed the seer to be lynched, when he was the only living player who could have stopped it.

Contranegative makes a great partner for him as well. Most importantly, he was found to be red by a player I have no doubt was the real seer. (I know he was the real seer because of the way he went about revealing himself... clumsily.) Toby mentioned on the first page that the wolves will tend to be red. With verm as the blue wolf and BDS as the brown one, it would make sense to me that the remaining two wolves would be red. And yes, I would wager that this game has a miller as well, but I doubt it has a miller box keeper, and I doubt further that Toby would allow the miller box keeper to be so blindsided by his color. After all, we've seen the box keeper PM and it's quite clear that box keepers are brown. So I'm thinking that contranegative must be a wolf as well.

And it makes a lot of sense as well, Contra and verm have both been going on and on about how these box keepers were "confirmed" when in reality, they aren't confirmed at all. Contra had this genius plan to swap boxes with someone else, proving that they're both human box keepers. But all it proves is that they both had boxes.

I would like to pool our boxes tonight to make a kill on a different player and then lynch verm in the following day phase. If anyone has any questions or comments about this plan, please post them here. For now, all box keepers or box owners should send their boxes to FireArrow.

[FireArrow]

With verm as the blue wolf...

I'd also like to point out that if verm was a blue human, he would of NEVER lynched K-night as k-knight seered him blue. K-knight should of been a confirmed human verm's eyes.

[Bubbles]

I still don't think k-night was the seer, despite that looking suspicious for me. The last game I played I was a wolf with him, and the one before that too. In TWG LVI, he pm'd me suggesting this plan:

also i have a plan, but it's kind of out there. i need you guys to approve of it to make sure it's safe.

i'm going to claim seer to verm, claiming that i seer'd him green last night. hopefully that will earn me some trust from him. i can "seer" some people, claim that at least one is red, and then go from there.

If you read the last sentence, that is exactly what happened this game, with contranegative being the red

Then in TWG LVI (he was a wolf before the role switch) he tried to use another plan involving seers. He's done it twice in extremely recent times, so why wouldn't he have done it again?

is it against the rules to bring in pms if theyre from other games

[Dude]

SlowPokemon and Dude, it would be wise to post your roles in the thread. It's essential for us to know who is what if we are going to win this.

wat

I thought I PM'd you a while ago.

I'm a normal human.

[vermilionvermin]

I didn't think we should lynch Contranegative because Contranegative claimed to have proof of him being a box holder and Toby told us box keepers were brown.  That means it should have been impossible for him to have been seered red barring a painter.  I also think it's sketchy that K-Night's response to seering someone red who should have been brown was "well there might be a painter".  That sounds to me like someone who's on the defensive rather than someone who caught a wolf in a lie.  I also thought it was possible that the alliance had been infiltrated since fank died, and everyone but K-Night was confirmed at that point.

FireArrow, your logic about K-Night being a confirmed human in my eyes is flawed.  A blue verm seering was the easy way out for a wolf on Night one since I claimed to be special to the thread.  That's, of course, assuming he wasn't a wolf shaman or something.

[Bird]

I didn't think we should lynch Contranegative because Contranegative claimed to have proof of him being a box holder and Toby told us box keepers were brown.  That means it should have been impossible for him to have been seered red barring a painter.

We already saw a brown wolf, so I'm not sure what makes you so confident that all box keepers are a certain color.

I also think it's sketchy that K-Night's response to seering someone red who should have been brown was "well there might be a painter".  That sounds to me like someone who's on the defensive rather than someone who caught a wolf in a lie.

k-NiGhT doesn't strike me as the kind of person who has incredible confidence in his TWG opinions, and considering he was responding to a vote against him, being defensive makes perfect sense. Plus, it's a mystery game, so I can't really blame anyone for not being sure of themselves.

I also thought it was possible that the alliance had been infiltrated since fank died, and everyone but K-Night was confirmed at that point.

You didn't mention this during that entire day phase, nor did you even entertain the notion that contranegative may have been lying. You didn't even mention that the person that you were helping kill had claimed seer. The way the lynch was carried out was very underhanded and lazy, and it seems like just the thing the wolves would be trying for on the phase where four active players were suspended from the game. In other words, when you plan on lynching somebody who claimed to be the seer, I think the lynch deserved a lot more discussion, and received little to none.

I think it's very important that I elaborate on exactly why I'm so sure that k-NiGhT was the actual seer. It almost entirely comes down to how he revealed his first seer result. He didn't want people to think he was blue, he just wanted people to know that verm was trustworthy, at least in his eyes. Why would a wolf do this? Going by his plan, it wouldn't make anyone think he was more trustworthy (in fact, it made him look suspicious), and it helped the humans form an alliance.

On top of that, this is not at all the kind of stuff that k-NiGhT pulls as a wolf. Really. It doesn't make sense for anyone to be doing that as a wolf. Even if he were a wolf shaman, saying that a seer claimed to him and said verm was blue? What if there was a seer in the game, they would know that they hadn't said anything to k-NiGhT and he could be lynched. People would wonder why some person randomly claimed to him. And to say that "he was trying to look like a seer who didn't know what they were doing" is a huge stretch, and way more manipulative than anything I've ever heard of.

verm, you continue to demonstrate loyalty fo contranegative for absolutely no reason. The only thin he's done to "confirm" his humanity, is trade boxes with somebody else. That does not make him a box keeper at all. We have evidence saying that players who are not box keepers can start with boxes! Liggy is a red loner who started with three boxes, a wolf starting with boxes as well is certainly not out of the question.

[Thiannon]

Okay, I feel a bit stupid for not stopping that lynch. The standard by which we hold our red seerings to shouldn't be "didn't immediately roll over and die". I'm with Bird on this one. I can't imagine why verm would trust Contranegative, who's done nothing but defend himself (a pretty obvious wolf "strategy") over an uncounterclaimed Seer. It's possible there's no human seer this game, but I find that highly unlikely. Aside from the box keepers, this seems like a pretty typical TWG setup (there are normal Humans, for crying out loud!), and it was balanced by freaking Manti (side note: this is pretty awesome).

In the interest of full disclosure, here's a PM verm sent to me and K-Night on Wednesday:

I sent a PM to bird's supposed co-mason asking what his role was.  He didn't say mason and said he thought bird might be a wolf.   

I'm assuming this was some sort of attempt by verm to bait one of me or K-Night, since mariolegofan was subsequently confirmed.

[vermilionvermin]

Here's the full PM story if you want it:

Hey, what's your role?  Don't tell bird I asked you.  I'm worried he might be lying about his role.

Why, what are you? I am not sure what bird..why don't you ask him. I think he is a wolf......maybe 

then I sent that one to Thiannon and K-Night.

Actually, let me phrase that better.  I am a bodyguard who can survive the first time someone tries to kill him.  I am supposedly in the alliance centered around bird.  Somewhere in your role PM, The Boy Who Cried Wolf should have mentioned something about bird.  If so, what does it say?  I don't think you can quote your role PM legally, so just summarize anything it says about bird.

ok, are you on birds team? I cant give you any info until you tell me more....

If Bird is mentioned in your role PM, then I think I am on Bird's team.  If he's not then he isn't on your team or my team.

Me and bird are brothers and masons

[Bird]

the truth comes out!

[Contranegative]

We're forgetting the numbered nature of the Box Keepers. There are probably 5 Box Keepers, as Mashi flipped as Box Keeper 5. Mr. E is Box Keeper 1, FireArrow is two or three, Mr. Tanooki Suit was most likely the other, and I'm Box Keeper 4. It's just silly for there to be a Box Keeper 5 without there being a Box Keeper 4, but no one has claimed against me.