TWG LVII - The Return of Mephistopheles

[Yugi]

Okay, considering a good majority of the players want this idea to happen, and my partners are reccomending I do this I claim the Archangel Michael.

If anyone has any questions they want to ask me, feel free to go ahead.

[fank009]

i didnt understand the first half of your post so ill just comment on this

Humans have no reason to make deals? No, theres PLENTY of reasons for deals. I honestly dont see why you would think that. If wolves would use deals to help them win, then why wouldnt humans would do the same? Its not just for the "desire of power", but a way to go against the other team

Let me repharse that...
Humans should not send in deals. Yes, there is the idea of combating what the wolves are doing, But if each Human sends in what he/she thinks is the best way to combat it, due to the nature of the human team, we wont have the co-ordination to (blindly) combat what the wolves are doing (and might dig ourselves a bigger hole) since the Angels know each other, there can be a bit more correlation. (yes we have the idea of a "spokesperson to talk to... but, wolves can give what they are doing, (we can trust them, they cant trust us...). All in all, I feel that letting the angels counteract against the wolves would be the best plan in terms of dealing with deals, and all the Humans scum hunt.

Okay, considering a good majority of the players want this idea to happen, and my partners are reccomending I do this I claim the Archangel Michael.

If anyone has any questions they want to ask me, feel free to go ahead.

Umm.... Liggy?

[Yugi]

Umm.... Liggy?

(that's a retraction fyi)

[fank009]

The retraction I missed, although, Im still a bit iffy with his initial claim/unclaim... because he gave wolves a 3/7 chance of hitting a power, and 9/10 (from my experience) Wolves retract as a "human" move (humans do it too... but i find it wierd that he didnt wait till the day phase to do it, and maybe draw the blow)

[BlackDragonSlayer]

The retraction I missed, although, Im still a bit iffy with his initial claim/unclaim... because he gave wolves a 3/7 chance of hitting a power, and 9/10 (from my experience) Wolves retract as a "human" move (humans do it too... but i find it wierd that he didnt wait till the day phase to do it, and maybe draw the blow)

My plan was to get the wolf to waste his kill on me, and organize an alliance, because I completely forgot the specials knew each other.

Whoops.

That is his explanation; I can see how it might be potentially suspicious (especially because a few people, myself included, said that the angels should not claim, or at least not until the day).

[Yugi]

Also, Reno Sweeny seered someone green.

[fank009]

That is his explanation; I can see how it might be potentially suspicious (especially because a few people, myself included, said that the angels should not claim, or at least not until the day).

... Regardless of suspicious or not, It was a stupid move, he has limited the number of possible humans being "natural" powers from 8 to 7... And the suspicion comes from me thinking that liggy would not do that type of a stupid move.
As i said before, It would have been more human imo to keep the claim till day 1, rather than retract immediatley

[Toby]

Is this because I am the great God who has the advantages? Or is it because hatred has come over you? Or perhaps you were threatened by my intelligence that I would make tremendous deals that'd shatter your bones?

We'll never know until the end has come, mwa ha ha haa.

[Dude]

oh hey i can make a deal this time :> last time i couldn't and that sucked. :<

anyway I don't know what's going on yet so this will be a post of me saying words now.

words.

[Liggy]

... Regardless of suspicious or not, It was a stupid move, he has limited the number of possible humans being "natural" powers from 8 to 7... And the suspicion comes from me thinking that liggy would not do that type of a stupid move.
As i said before, It would have been more human imo to keep the claim till day 1, rather than retract immediatley

What, no.

I'm not going to wait to retract it, because that would pressure the REAL specials into counter-claiming, doing the exact opposite of my original intent.  I look super suspicious, we lose the anonymity of the specials, and the wolves get the confusion without putting themselves into danger.  There's literally nothing good to this.

In regards to "no human should make a deal."  That's utter bs.
Everyone, make a deal that you feel will help the human team.
It's pretty simple to make a deal that helps the human team.  Just don't be wrong.  Don't ever create a deal that could potentially cause a human death, unless you're fairly certain you can nail a wolf with it.  Don't ever create a deal that could incriminate or vindicate someone unless you the phrase the deal so that only wolves can be caught and humans can be cleared.  Don't create a deal that could potentially interfere with a useful power.  Stuff like that.

Examples of what not to do, and what to do instead:

Loose Cannon Powers - Add a clause to only allow wolves to be killed by it.
Color Seerings - "Affliation Detection" works much better.  Not "What color is this guy?," use "Is this guy a wolf?"
A power that reflects powers back at people - Make it only killings.  And make it so only wolves can be effected.

I think you get the point.  Notice the similarities between Loose Cannon/Third Power.  That clause is pretty much a catch-all.  No idea if it'll be accepted each time, but think about using it.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

The only thing, Liggy, is that the price tends to get higher as the deal gets "better." As Mephistopheles himself said: "All deals revolve around fair trade; something must give for you to get." Though, it doesn't hurt to try.
If you look at the postgame for XLIII, you can see some examples.

[TheZeldaPianist275]

I propose that everyone post/send Yugi a pm about who they would choose each angel to guard, seer, and deal-cancel.  I think posting would be better, since it would draw out more discussion and we seem to have hit a temporary lull in dicussion.  Thoughts?

[Yugi]

That would seem good, but how do they send a message on who to deal cancel?

[vermilionvermin]

Sorry I've been absent so far.  If you are a special and Yugi is not a special, please get a totem to tell us he's lying.

[fank009]

What, no.

I'm not going to wait to retract it, because that would pressure the REAL specials into counter-claiming, doing the exact opposite of my original intent.  I look super suspicious, we lose the anonymity of the specials, and the wolves get the confusion without putting themselves into danger.  There's literally nothing good to this.

Of course, You know the risks of keeping with the claim, but I dont believe you were looking to keep the powers safe. You dont draw the fire by claiming and retracting... you give some "subtle" hints. (I should know ). You retracting made it clear that you werent a power. Like i said, 3/8 went to 3/7 chance of a natural power being killed N1.

1st thing you come out with is "Im a special", nothing else, no discussion, just that. You know what I think of that type of play

My case against your humanity is as follows, (according to my assumption)
You claimed "whatever" under the pretence that angels didnt know each other. You can draw out 2 powers this method. one to "verify" your claim, and the 2nd as a force of the CC, all of it under the guise of a gambit.
There's also the reaction when people didnt "want a claim", I feel your reactions really knee jerk, as in people want a claim, so you come to get it. and you immediately step back when you see the flaw of your plan...

I believe that you believed that angels didnt know each other... and that fits your actions perfectly if you were a wolf.
I believe that you would not have claimed under these conditions if you were a human.

because that would pressure the REAL specials into counter-claiming, doing the exact opposite of my original intent. 

Wouldnt claiming do that anyway? (again) If your intent was to draw fire from the wovles, why didnt you keep on it? We we're all saying that "micheal" should claim. I do believe that you would have gambited, as we assume that you are micheal for claiming. IF you were a power, you retracted, proving that you werent a power. As you said... in the quote, that has guranteed that you are not a Natural power.

There's just something bothering my lean with you liggy
and thats your ideas for deals... They are really pro human... (maybe they are too pro human...)

In regards to "no human should make a deal."  That's utter bs.
Everyone, make a deal that you feel will help the human team.

Liggy, you did read the little GREEN text i had right??? Did you read anything about what i said at all? or did you just see the fact of "humans shouldnt make a deal".
I have one huge things about deals that I dont like, and that its every man for his/her self... the Angels can know if they have been affected as a part of a deal (before someone raises an objection, Their power being used "as payment". ) and "fixing" the deals in our favour? imagine a scenario, where we all put ingredients into a cake, yet we dont know who has put in what... more than likely you wont get much of a cake. and since there is no limit on deals, the angels should be the ones to make the deals, because they can at least "co-ordinate" in some form, without the wolves knowing.
 Any deals that dont involve the "natural powers",,is good. best to increase the humans "playability" instead of just relying on people with "broken" (in the sense of not being able to use efficently) powers.
As liggy said, its not playing good deals, but playing smart deals.

Sorry I've been absent so far.  If you are a special and Yugi is not a special, please get a totem to tell us he's lying.

Verm... Thats unlike you... letting off the ball like that.

I propose that everyone post/send Yugi a pm about who they would choose each angel to guard, seer, and deal-cancel.  I think posting would be better, since it would draw out more discussion and we seem to have hit a temporary lull in dicussion.  Thoughts?

What is it with you and good ideas of late TZP? any more and i might think your a wolf xD (oh wait...)