TWG LV: The Choice is Doors

[fank009]

I dont have a "suspicion list"
More of a thoughts list.

Here are some various cases against each person (from my point of view)


BDS
Case for humanity.
This is one of those "meta" type analysis. How, on gods green earth, Did BDS have no idea whats going on.
Us 4 (me/yugi/olimar/(verm/tzp)) were connected to everyone, but BDS.  Unless wolves cant talk to each other (i keep hearing of wolves not be able to talk to each other as a balancing act ...) there shouldnt be a reason why he wouldnt be kept in the dark. If it is the 2nd... well that creates a different type of case.

Case against humanity
somewhat of a weak case, typicaly, Thinks he knows whats going on for being "in the middle of nowhere" and my general arguments. He somewhat has a different thought process now as in the beginning of the game, yes, there is adaptability, but you dont just casually cast key principles aside.
As i said, not much of a strong case.

Bird
Case against humanity
This is more of a paranoid case, That He is acting this way, setting everything up to be perfect. Its just everything in Birds play, I can see him doing everything that he's done. The no lynch on day 2, the asking for masons, the sudden reversal on the dude lynch.... just a few things, that may seem forced. Magic word being may.

Case for humanity
More the opposite. I have a sense that if bird is being helpful on purpose, i would see him more as a human, and as a result he would be a wolf (reverse pyschology, is so awesome.) Because of his "wolfish" actions, He's more than likely human.

TBWCW
Case for humanity
Weak case, as good as the case against... (general unsureness and all that)
This isnt a direct quote but more from TST.
"He is simply confused"
Not much of a case... like i said, likely a case against. Being in the "group of 6" doesnt help either.

TST
Case against humanity.
Night 2, and opening all the doors (granted i should have shut mine, but heck... I'm not perfect am I?). Im getting a sense of dude, "I must do something to please the human gods of bird/tzp/fank". Been active in the chat. hasnt offered any solid evidence of being a human, but thats not to say that he doesnt have ideas.
case for humanity
Night 3- Nuff said
Wry
Case both ways
Where are you at.

FireArrow
Case against humanity
If FA has a case against humanity, its his message to me, of "lets get the three musketeers together again" (paraphrasing). I could be falling for an elaborate trap. He hasnt shown any immediate signs of being a "confirmed human" but he hasnt shown signs of being a wolf either. Maybe being too eager? But otherwise i dont see much of a case against humanity.

case for humanity
Night 3- Nuff said

Olimar
case for humanity
Private chats, a ton of them with FA, The three musketeers being strong... (im prolly foolish, shoot me post game)

case against humanity
As much inactivity as TST. negated by the effect that doors stay closed n2, (but always a BDS type argument, wolf buddehs arent contactable :/


TZP
Case for humanity
That day 1 plan. Seperate everyone into networks, Let the wolves gambit, create some clears. Pretty genious human plan. With added activeness, nothing more i can say.

Case Against humanity
a few points actually All based from TZP's gameplay rather than davys "rng" decision
Keeping the doors closed. Yes, at that time we all thought he was a human and numbers are key in this game. But theres two ways to confirm your human, one, you are a mason, (which he denied), The 2nd, He dies by wolfing. Seeing that neither have happened (due to the cuddly cuddly of tzp wanting to stay safe) ADD to the fact, there have been no wolfings, could he be one of the wolfing wolves??? (and this is where BDS logic will come in and agree and say, yes fank, you are perfectly reasonable with that line of logic, (yeah right :/))
This is the only case against humanity of everyone here, Which is a fairly long list.
Day 4, with olimar at my side. I was like to everyone, Who are we going to lynch, give me a reason to not lynch you.

What i said.

that door switch :/


well at least we can lynvh you know :p

jokes. but to be honest, its you or yugi at this point of stage, after chatting with olimar, i get the feeling he's a human.

so, why shouldnt you be lynched?

(that table width atuo correkt and bed speleng :/)
The reply back

Why on earth do you want to lynch me?  What are you guys talking about in the network of yours over there?

I don't like this attempt to intimidate me.  You don't hold all the cards, something I'm glad of.  I don't particularly trust you.

Now, there are hidden messages in both mine AND TZP's actions (of course im not going to say mine, what Wolves dont know wont hurt town)
But a few points.
I never said he was going to be lynched. I just wanted to hear his argument. (in my agressive way as what seems like usual :/) And he comes back with this.
Two more points, I wasnt trying to intimidate (not fmpov). Two, the bolden part. the thing that caught my eye and entered the radar of, "watch him fank". Two Qs.
One, why does he think He has a better "hand" than me (who knows he might?), two, Why is he worried about my cards if he has the better hand???
And better yet, wheres verm???
I was expecting a whole lot more from him... but thats not the point.
Bird makes a point too. Will TZP do this is a wolf??? And thats the big q here.

Mashi
Case for humanity
Not participating in the boy lynch. (i wasnt going to get TST's vote, so i went to mashi for the lynching vote... He didnt vote. So that somewhat clears him of being a wolf. The 2nd clear, is there being no wolfing night 3)

Case against humanity
... 

Dude
Case against humanity
Not doing anything Day 1, the sheeping opening doors...

Case for humanity
One of us three (bird more than likely) is a wolf

Yugi
Case for anything
General yuginess


WHY... Has it been so slow today :/
and why has EVERYONE been quiet??? or are they pming people that arent me???

Is it rude to ask for an extension on a day that really feels wasted???

Prolly going to be my last thing for the night. Im going to see what the doors are doing next phase, and plan accordingly.

[Bird]

after Talking With Fank I've Changed My Vote To Wry

[davy]

TWG LV: The Choice is Doors

1. Wolf
2. Wolf
3. Young Wolf - Can't send in wolfings.
4. Mason - Knows the identity of the other mason and in which room he is at the start of the game.
5. Mason - Knows the identity of the other mason and in which room he is at the start of the game.
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

Wolves know eachother.

Rooms and Doors



There are 16 rooms in this game. At the start of the game, players are put into the rooms so that there is one player in each room, except for four rooms known as the Special Rooms.

Each room has four doors which connect them with other rooms. Rooms at the edge connect with rooms on the opposide edge, and rooms in the corner connect to the two non-opposite rooms in the corner (room 1, for example, connects with room 2, room 5, room 4 and room 13).

At the start of the game, all doors are closed, except for those of the inclosable room. Doors can only be opened and closed during the night phase, and only from inside the room the door belongs to. There are two doors between each room, one of them can only be opened and closed from one room, and the other one from the other room. Starting from night 4, each door that has been closed for at least two night phases in a row, will automatically be opened, and vice versa with exception of the doors of the inaccesable and inclosable rooms.

During the day phase, players can move to any room they wish, as long as the road to that room is not obstructed by doors.

At the start of the game, and at the end of each phase, players will recieve a PM telling them what rooms they can move to, and which players are in rooms they can reach and those in rooms connected to rooms they can reach. However, they will not recieve a PM if the situation is the same as the phase before that.
Example 1: It's the start of the game. davy is in room 6, Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 5, Liggy is in room 7 and BlackDragonSlayer is in room 10. davy will recieve the following PM:
You are in room 6. You cannot move to any other room. Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 5, Liggy is in room 7 and BlackDragonSlayer is in room 10.
Example 2: It's near the end of the game. davy is in room 6. The doors between room 6 and 7, 6 and 10, 7 and 11 and 10 and 11 are open. The doors between room 6 and 2, 6 and 5, 7 and 3, 7 and 8, 10 and 9, 10 and 14, 11 and 15 and 11 and 12 are closed. Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 8, Liggy is in room 7, BlackDragonSlayer is in room 1 and Bubbles is in room 15. davy will recieve the following PM:
You are in room 6. you can move to room 7, room 10 and room 11. Liggy is in room 7, Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 8 and Bubbles is in room 15. Room 3, 5, 9, 12 and 14 are empty.

Wolves will obtain a saparate PM at the end of each night phase telling them in which rooms their partners are.

Special Rooms

The four rooms that are not occupied by players at the start of the game are the special rooms: the empty room, the inaccesable room, the inclosable room and the warp room.

The empty room functions like a normal room, except that there is no player inside it at the start of the game, so there's no one who
can open its doors. The doors can however be opened by the system that starts working from night 4.

The inaccesable room has its doors closed at all times, even the system that starts working from night 4 can't open them.

The inclosable room is the only room that starts the game with all its doors open. Those doors can however not be closed by any player and can even not be closed by the system that starts working from night 4.

If the warp room is empty at the end of the night phase, 1 random player will warp to it.

Players will be told which rooms mentioned in their end of the night phase PM is a inaccesable, inclosable or warp room (if nothing is mentioned, none of these rooms are mentioned in the PM are inaccesable, inclosable or warp rooms).

Wolfings

Wolfings work differnt this game. Wolves can only wolf players that are in rooms that said wolf could reach last day phase. On the other hand, each wolf has a wolfing of his own, so it is possible that three players die during the same night phase.

Lynches

Like with wolfings, players can only lynch players that are in a room that said player can reach that day phase. Lynching votes are sent through PM rather than posted in the topic. Lynching will only occur when more than half of the players that could vote for the same player vote for the same player. Otherwise, there will just be no lynch. There could be multiple lynches each day phase because a player can be lynched in each set of rooms. Also, lynching is not obligatory in this game.

Semi-closed communication

This game features some sort of closed communication, which I like to call semi-closed communication. It means that you can only PM and have private chats with the host and players mentioned in your start of the game/end of the night PM. Also all information in your start of the game/end of the night PM, as well as information about your actions (wolfing, lynching, door opening/closing and moving) may only be shared through PM and private chat.

Order of action activating

Night phase: Wolfing>Door opening=Door closing
Day phase: Lynching>Moving>Warping

Phases

Because there are probably going to be a lot of phases this game and because there is less need to think about the lynch target, I have decided that both day and night phases will be 24 hours long. Also when all possible action PM's have been sent to me, or when each player that could still sent in an action PM has told me that he/she don't want to, I will end the phase early.


1. The Boy Who Cried Wolf
2. Mashi
3. BlackDragonSlayer
4. fank009
5. TheZeldaPianist275
6. Bird
7. Olimar12345
8. FireArrow
9. The_Subjective_Thought
10. Dude
11. Yugi
12. Wrydryn

Day 5 is over. Wry was Lynched. The PM has been sent. It's now Night 6. Night 6 ends July 11th 8:00AM PST/9:00AM MST/10:00AM CST/11:00PM EST/4:00PM GMT/5:00PM CET/July 12th 2:00AM AEST/4:00AM in New-Zealand.

[Bird]

Neat!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Wonderful...

Now that Wry is dead, you're going to say that Olimar is the wolf. You will "support" this by not having any wolfings for one more night. Then, during the Day phase, if we lynch Olimar, assuming that Bird/Boy/Fank are the wolves, there will be FIVE humans left, and THREE wolves. During the night phase, you wolf two humans. Yep.
Even if you're not the wolves, at this point, if Olimar IS the final wolf, he can do little or nothing, since there's a chance he's the young wolf, meaning that, statistically, it would be better to lynch one of you either way (if Olimar is the final wolf, or if he is not), since, if Olimar isn't the final wolf, as described above, you could win with two wolfings in one night.
I also find it suspicious that the only people we've managed to lynch have been the bottom three people on the player list.

[fank009]

Wonderful...

Now that Wry is dead, you're going to say that Olimar is the wolf. You will "support" this by not having any wolfings for one more night. Then, during the Day phase, if we lynch Olimar, assuming that Bird/Boy/Fank are the wolves, there will be FIVE humans left, and THREE wolves. During the night phase, you wolf two humans. Yep.
Even if you're not the wolves, at this point, if Olimar IS the final wolf, he can do little or nothing, since there's a chance he's the young wolf, meaning that, statistically, it would be better to lynch one of you either way (if Olimar is the final wolf, or if he is not), since, if Olimar isn't the final wolf, as described above, you could win with two wolfings in one night.
I also find it suspicious that the only people we've managed to lynch have been the bottom three people on the player list.

Stupid q, why wait till next phase for 2 wolfings???
When they can perform them now???
If there are 3 wolves alive, if they play their cards right, they can win with this night phase.

And bds, im not understanding you???
you arent understanding me. So many times i have stressed the fact that I wanted a toby lynch day 2.
WHY, then would I lynch my wolf partner on day 2???
Drop that notion
And start thinking outside the box, instead of your room 1 ideas

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Stupid q, why wait till next phase for 2 wolfings???
When they can perform them now???
If there are 3 wolves alive, if they play their cards right, they can win with this night phase.

If there are two wolfings tonight, it would be fairly obvious who the wolves are. If the wolves wait for somebody else to be lynched, then the humans can't do anything to stop them.

you arent understanding me. So many times i have stressed the fact that I wanted a toby lynch day 2.
WHY, then would I lynch my wolf partner on day 2???

Because all times after that point, you seemed to NOT want to lynch him, from what you told me in the chat, and even in your post at the top of the page.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

statistically, it would be better to lynch one of you either way

Elaborating on that (humans:wolves); this is assuming my accusations are correct* (and mainly demonstrating how much security my plan gives us)**:

If we lynch Olimar

Night 6: No wolfing; 6:3
Day 6: We lynch Olimar; 5:3
Night 7: Two people are lynched; 3:3

[close]

If we lynch Bird/Boy/Fank

Night 6: No wolfing; 6:3
Day 6: We lynch Boy; 5:2
Night 7: One wolfing; 4:2
Day 7: We lynch Fank; 4:1
Night 8: No wolfings (yes; this is also assuming that Bird is the Young Wolf); 4:1
Day 8: We lynch Olimar just to be safe; 3:1
Night 9: No wolfings; 3:1
Day 9: We lynch Bird; 3:0

[close]

*Even if they aren't, this still applies, although the game would end when Olimar were lynched.

**Although Olimar may not be the person you want to lynch for certain, I'm using him as an example because he was on the top of Bird's suspicion list.

[fank009]

BDS.... ... ... .... .... 
You really have left me speechless... :/
There are so many things... that dont make sense with your "idea"
One, why aren't wolves manipulatimg the doors?
Two, why did no one die day 2/ night 3
Three, why wouldnt the wolves be plannimg ahead
Four, why is no one else a wolf, mainly tst/mashi/tzp/firearrow
Five, why did i move into the network on day 4, "without backup"
Six, why, are you not confirmimg with other people whats been happening???

 Where I stand, fmpov, i should know the most of whats been happening in the game. Because ive put myself in such a position.
Fmpov, your argument does not make sense, so hence, why thought no.6 is there.

[The_Subjective_Thought]

BDS, calm down.

Your theories and ideas seem to be getting wilder with every post.

You've just point the finger at three people and yelled: WOLVES!!!, are you sure you can convince other of your idea and hold that kind of vote?

Is your accusation strong enough to hold up to scrutiny?

Furthermore bird and fank have done much more for the majority of players in general than you have.

Get down from whatever mountain you've planted yourself on, stop spouting every theory which comes into your head, try and back up your accusations without ifs but and maybes, and for gods sake think before you start typing!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Oih... where will I begin...

One, why aren't wolves manipulatimg the doors?
Two, why did no one die day 2/ night 3
Three, why wouldnt the wolves be plannimg ahead
Four, why is no one else a wolf, mainly tst/mashi/tzp/firearrow
Five, why did i move into the network on day 4, "without backup"
Six, why, are you not confirmimg with other people whats been happening???

1: I don't know what you mean by that; it makes no sense the way you say it.
2: There's no need to explain that, unless you can't make the obvious connection as to WHY there would be no wolfings...
3: I don't know what you mean by that as well. What do you mean by "why wouldn't the wolves be planning ahead," and how does it relate to any of my statements?
4: Because of reasons I explained, specifically being that I highly doubt the wolves would place themselves in a position where they would highly compromise themselves, such as keeping their doors closed; if anything, semi-inactive (or just completely inactive) humans wouldn't care as much about their doors, but I would think/hope that some wolves in the same position would at least make an effort to be... well... logical...
5: I don't really know what you mean by this, or especially how it holds any relevance.
6: I'm not quite sure if this is what you mean, but I'll try and say something that hopefully covers it: Unless you have reasons as to why you, Bird, or Boy CANNOT be wolves, or any facts that truly do incriminate other people (and you can be certain aren't merely attempts to frame said people), this ("confirming with other people") wouldn't matter, since it would not provide any evidence for or against what I'm trying to say.

BDS, calm down.

I don't see how I can calm down if I'm not excited in the first place...

You've just point the finger at three people and yelled: WOLVES!!!, are you sure you can convince other of your idea and hold that kind of vote?

I can never convince anybody of anything... or, rather, I can rarely do so; only when people choose to believe me can I convince them. ...

Is your accusation strong enough to hold up to scrutiny?

Unless there's some important fact that nobody has told me of for whatever reason (which would be a fact that would be entirely the fault of those who knew, yet failed to tell me for intentional reasons), yes, at least fmpov. I find it odd how you question me, yet don't even try to consider the fact that the inactives could easily be framed by observant wolves.

Furthermore bird and fank have done much more for the majority of players in general than you have.

I don't see how that makes what I say any more or less true unless I've been inactive for half the game and am just starting to spout wild statements now; there have been PLENTLY of situations like this where I've been at least somewhat right even though nobody has believed me.

Get down from whatever mountain you've planted yourself on, stop spouting every theory which comes into your head, try and back up your accusations without ifs but and maybes, and for gods sake think before you start typing!

The only mountain I've planted myself on...

IS THE MOUNTAIN OF TRUTH~~~


(just kidding... a little bit... ;P)

All right, NOW I'M EXCITED.


You say "try and back up your accusations without ifs but and maybes," but if you think that's ALL I'm doing, you need to start thinking more before you type (or rather, read before you type, and comprehend), especially because the only other scenario you people seem to support is one based solely of "ifs and but," as in "if the wolves were inactive," "but why would the wolves not wolf anybody intentionally," etc., etc., etc.!!!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

And may I add that, if you have an important fact that could definitively prove what you are saying, contrarily to what I am saying, please bring it to my attention, if possible.

[fank009]

1: I don't know what you mean by that; it makes no sense the way you say it.
2: There's no need to explain that, unless you can't make the obvious connection as to WHY there would be no wolfings...
3: I don't know what you mean by that as well. What do you mean by "why wouldn't the wolves be planning ahead," and how does it relate to any of my statements?
4: Because of reasons I explained, specifically being that I highly doubt the wolves would place themselves in a position where they would highly compromise themselves, such as keeping their doors closed; if anything, semi-inactive (or just completely inactive) humans wouldn't care as much about their doors, but I would think/hope that some wolves in the same position would at least make an effort to be... well... logical...
5: I don't really know what you mean by this, or especially how it holds any relevance.
6: I'm not quite sure if this is what you mean, but I'll try and say something that hopefully covers it: Unless you have reasons as to why you, Bird, or Boy CANNOT be wolves, or any facts that truly do incriminate other people (and you can be certain aren't merely attempts to frame said people), this ("confirming with other people") wouldn't matter, since it would not provide any evidence for or against what I'm trying to say.

1- Why arent wolves putting themselves in a position to manipulate how the doors open/shut? and get maximum "security" due to the doors adverse effect
2- Rephrase that, If me/bird/boy were the wolves. that network of 6, Why didnt we try with our majority, push on a lynch, at the very least, lynch one of the other 3 alive. I see no sense, using a time like this, to NOT be in a position to pick up and start a wolfing/lynch train with the majority that we (would of) had???
3-Same reasoining as no.1, with the fire power that we had, you think we would plan things differently...
4-

but I would think/hope that some wolves in the same position would at least make an effort to be... well... logical...

We all know they havent been. Its either Stay in a hidey hole and let humans lynch themselves, or lets fake them out and force them to lynch those that took the chicken option.
Of those two things, Lets go over something again...

There was a network of 6 containing me/bird/mashi/boy/FA/tst

Lets say one of them was a lynching wolf. You CANNOT TELL ME, That meta doesnt exisit, that those 6 people would have avoided lynching them, for fears of being suspected. Each person had a "safe" wolfing at least, and people who they could have wolfed (example bird vs mashi...)
There is "what if's" and there is analyzing the player base in said network

5- day 4 was a network of me/tzp/olimar/yugi. Ive been saying numbers are key. So, with a combination of reasons 1 and 3, Why wouldnt i set it up, to have at least one scumbuddeh with me, so that we can "control the vote"?
6- What i meant, Have you asked anyone whats been happening while you have been "out of the loop"?
I know you were out of the loop. otherwise you would have known stuff (like me opening my door to 11 night 4 (which i sent to everyone who i could)

Now to answer your statement of...

Unless you have reasons as to why you, Bird, or Boy CANNOT be wolves, or any facts that truly do incriminate other people (and you can be certain aren't merely attempts to frame said people), this ("confirming with other people") wouldn't matter, since it would not provide any evidence for or against what I'm trying to say.

You must have played too much ace attorney Mr judge. Because I know, there isnt a lot of "evidence" to incriminate people. If there was, i would be going after them right now. You want evidence on why one of us cant be a wolf???
May I remind you of the PM i sent to you at around the end of day 2.

At the moment. I want to lynch. Im not lynching either bird or Firearrow, Not happening. Dont try to convince me.

Im planning on Lynching TBWCW tonight.

The main reason is This chat log here.

Spoiler

04:58:05: <Mashi> I think The_Subjective_Thought might be active enough to not make wolfings, but idk.
04:58:24: <Mashi> I think I've seen him in the chat once and he's apparently been PMing Toby a few Phases ago.
04:58:31: <Mashi> So maybe I'm mistaken about his activity.
04:58:34: <fank009> ...
04:58:36: <Firearrow> Maybe both of them are wolves?
04:58:40: <fank009> eh He is somewhat inactime...
04:58:42: <fank009> maybe.
04:58:43: <Mashi>
04:58:54: <fank009> or there the masons...
04:58:59: <fank009> either of them.
04:59:05: <fank009> (reasons)
04:59:07: <Firearrow> which would suck if we tried to lynch them
04:59:34: <fank009> NOT SO FAST FA...
04:59:37: <fank009> remember...
04:59:38: <fank009> Why...
04:59:52: <fank009> did BDS AND olimar... keep their door close???
04:59:57: <Firearrow> yeah...
05:00:10: <Firearrow> I guess olimar is a very obvious mason right now
05:00:16: <fank009> so...
05:00:20: <fank009> if olimar is a mason..
05:00:33: <fank009> What does that make the relationship between TST and toby???
05:00:46: <Firearrow> Uh, wolfs?
05:00:57: <Firearrow> wolves*
05:00:58: <fank009> Elementary my dear FA.
05:01:07: <fank009> And on that logic
05:01:13: <fank009> I say we lynch TBWCW
05:01:31: <fank009> Tbwcw is more of a threat over TST.

[close]

Any other thoughts before i jump into it (as usual)

And then we have this.

TBWCW
Case for humanity
Weak case, as good as the case against... (general unsureness and all that)
This isnt a direct quote but more from TST.
"He is simply confused"
Not much of a case... like i said, likely a case against. Being in the "group of 6" doesnt help either.

Im not going to look for the log where TST told me the contents of his message. found it...

 Take that!

22:31:32: <fank009> So that it doesnt go downhill from here :/
22:31:45: <fank009> we have 2 groups...
22:31:49: <fank009> the original 3...
22:31:54: <fank009> me/bird/FA
22:31:58: <fank009> and the new 3
22:32:06: <fank009> Toby/mashi/TST
22:32:31: <fank009> maybe it was ambitious for me to try get the new 3 lynched :/
22:35:49: <fank009> ... What are you going to do this phase?
22:35:57: <fank009> you going to stick with the chicken option?
22:36:09: <fank009> or are you going to grow some guts and join the den.
22:36:49: <fank009> I think it would be better if you join us, cant have enough numbers you know.
22:47:31: <Subthought> Well I finally hit a time with more than one person on.
22:47:35: <fank009> ...
22:47:41: <Subthought> Well
22:47:42: <fank009> TST
22:47:50: <fank009> I want from you...
22:47:51: <Subthought> I did hit you and firearrow yesterday
22:48:00: <fank009> your interactions between TBWCW
22:48:00: <Subthought> ALl the thing between me and
22:48:05: <Subthought> yeah that
22:48:08: <Subthought> Saw the pm
22:48:10: <Subthought> Sure
22:48:17: <Subthought> let me copy past them
22:48:57: <Subthought> How do i look at my outbox
22:49:01: <Subthought> I can't find the button
22:49:10: <fank009> ... messages- sent items
22:49:16: <Subthought> Oh
22:49:18: <Subthought> right
22:49:25: <fank009> IF you saved it
22:50:36: <Subthought> um
22:50:38: <Subthought> Oh
22:50:44: <Subthought> Well i can remeber what I said
22:50:57: <fank009> ...
22:50:59: <Subthought> I basically saw him complaining in the forum
22:51:07: <fank009> You know, having TBWCW's point of view
22:51:07: <Subthought> checked my pm from davy
22:51:11: <fank009> is still allright.
22:51:12: <Subthought> Oh
22:51:14: <Subthought> I do
22:51:20: <Subthought> I'll grab that
22:52:14: <Subthought> Then that is good! i'm honestly confused about most of this and don't want to open my mouth too much with ridiculous ideas. So, you're in the warp room.
22:52:21: <Subthought> Thats the reply to my frist one
22:52:33: <Subthought> he replyed again
22:52:34: <Subthought> Not sure if that last message worked but ok. Hi. I'm glad we can talk. I'm so confused. You're in the warp room. Nice. I can't talk to anyone else help.
22:53:01: <Subthought> He quotes my message
22:53:07: <Olimar12345> hello
22:53:08: <fank009> ...
22:53:10: <fank009> you know...
22:53:13: <Subthought> Last message worked I just stopped paying attention due to having acess to the internet. It's very distracting. Are you sure you can't talk to anyone else? You should be allowed to PM everyone who's name appeared in the last message davy sent. At least I think that's how it works...
22:53:15: <fank009> you can forward it to me.
22:53:20: <Subthought> Oh
22:53:21: <Subthought> can I/
22:53:23: <Subthought> ?
22:53:26: <fank009> to all of us...
22:53:28: <fank009> yeah...
22:53:29: <Subthought> oh
22:53:31: <Subthought> right
22:53:39: <fank009> private communications privelages
22:53:47: <Subthought> Sorry
22:53:54: <Subthought> There's only one more anyway
22:54:16: <Subthought> which is
22:54:18: <Subthought> Nope, everyone around me shut their doors. I can't move and I can only talk to you.
22:54:32: <fank009> :/

[close]

This... is what caused my current thoughts on boy . That was night 3. After the lynch hadnt taken place, you can tell by the emboldened part.

THAT is my evidence that Not all of us can be wolves together.

Do I need to poke back to my "cases for and against humanity" post, I made (what I feel like) was pretty good tl;dr cases against everyone (your specialty BDS)
No there isnt any "conclusive" evidence. Yet. Some people are compatible, some people arent. Exhibit A, Dude cant be a wolf, and the three of me/Bird/FA are wolf buddehs with him.

But there are certain interactions that tell on wether they are compatible as wolves or not.

And also, Do you know what confirming with other people does, it keeps everyone in the loop. And whats good with everyone being in the loop? they dont sprout (imo) B(D)S ideas like you are.

Let me restate the facts. I have been in a network every night. You havent been able to reach anyone (as good as) I know a lot more private communications then you do.

Mashi (a + point for him...) was keeping everyone around him in the loop with what was happening. I was trying my best to as well. (my plan is too complex :/) So asks the Q, Why werent you being kept in the loop BDS?
 

Oh and that reminds me, You missed an AWESOME pm from yours truly, listing all the things that made me clear.
Ill send it you privately cause we dont need to flood this.\


I would rip apart your reply to TST... But i find it will be me repeating myself with the same type of rebuttals when you were arguing me. so I wont do that.


BUT you have gotten me thinking.
Us two's idealologies contradict. yet they are the only things that make sense... We must be missing something. So i thought of something ridiculous. How about we turn the current situation around???.
(music please maestro)

Ok. So... There is something bugging me, We are all together. And NO ONE HAS OFFERED UP ANY THOUGHTS.
This is the brilliant time to leak whats been hiding under the pms, and no one has done that.
Why? because for the last week (or year?) Us two have been arguing back and forth, about whats happening, who's right, and what's our next plan of attack. And everyone else has been sitting back.
So, Two points- one Wouldnt wolves want to pick a side (or if two humans are fighting leave themselves out of it.) The 2nd, Has anyone who was a prominent or somewhat posting, turned off by us two arguing???
Im going to have to read over the thread again. and see who comes under this category. But wouldnt such a sensitive subject "like what are the wolves doing" be something they would steer away from?

I Dont think that ALL the wolves are in the other 6, (those not in the group of 6)
I just find it very unlikely that a wolfing wolf is in the 6.
And again, If all 3 of us were wolves, I stress the point, Why arent we doing the points that I stated above, and manipulating the numbers game to our advantage? (substitute with everyone else in that 6...)


Thats my stance on it. As to who the wolves are? i've allready posted my thoughts.

And may I add that, if you have an important fact that could definitively prove what you are saying, contrarily to what I am saying, please bring it to my attention, if possible.

In otherwords, im right and im not going to listen to anyone else right?

[The_Subjective_Thought]

Well it's nice to know the entire point of the questioning in my post has been completely ignored...

What I was doing BDS was attempting to get you to give us some kind of conclusion evidence in your claims, FAILING THAT, I wanted to see what kind of "ifs, buts, and maybes" you've convinced yourself of.

It seems i've accomplished neither.

I bid you good day.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Heerree we go (also, as a note, I might not reply again tonight)!!

1- Why arent wolves putting themselves in a position to manipulate how the doors open/shut? and get maximum "security" due to the doors adverse effect

How is that relating to my point? How/when did I say that the wolves are/aren't doing that?

2- Rephrase that, If me/bird/boy were the wolves. that network of 6, Why didnt we try with our majority, push on a lynch, at the very least, lynch one of the other 3 alive. I see no sense, using a time like this, to NOT be in a position to pick up and start a wolfing/lynch train with the majority that we (would of) had???

Doing certain actions, such as that (if I understand what you're saying), would bring too much attention to yourselves; if you start a wolfing/lynch train, but can't keep it running before everything crashes down on you, it would be very counterproductive. If you can only lynch/wolf up to three people, there's no point if there's about 6 MORE people who might likely see the "isolated" killings and connect it with at least one of the people in the group.

3-Same reasoining as no.1, with the fire power that we had, you think we would plan things differently...

Again, I never said the wolves were/weren't doing anything of the sort, and your point doesn't really relate to what I've been saying... if anything, I've implied that the wolves HAVE BEEN planning ahead (though that is merely implying).

4-
We all know they havent been. Its either Stay in a hidey hole and let humans lynch themselves, or lets fake them out and force them to lynch those that took the chicken option.

But if you can't kill anybody when you're locked up, you run the risk of observant HUMANS noticing that. That option wouldn't really be a smart one, unless you're just too inactive to even get on and post/send a PM.
And, also, you said "We all know they havent been," which is also something that does not take into consideration the possibility that the inactives are being framed. Essentially, just because the wolves have the possibility to wolf doesn't mean that they will, especially if doing so places them in more risk, but provides relatively little benefit... you're trying to say that the wolves are impulsive.

5- day 4 was a network of me/tzp/olimar/yugi. Ive been saying numbers are key. So, with a combination of reasons 1 and 3, Why wouldnt i set it up, to have at least one scumbuddeh with me, so that we can "control the vote"?

Because:
a: It's not necessary, unless you feel the humans have becoming too suspicious of you.
b: As I said, it would be something that might draw unnecessary attention to yourself.

May I remind you of the PM i sent to you at around the end of day 2.

Your PM shows little or nothing, especially because of your contradiction; from what I've seen of your evidence, it's somewhat jumbled and disoriented; I don't understand what you mean when you say "THAT is my evidence that Not all of us can be wolves together," but the evidence you provide doesn't seem to really support what you say to any significant degree (rather, I cannot draw the same conclusions you are from what you say, unless I'm just a bit confused as to what you're trying to say)!

Also, if I'm understanding you correctly:
Wolves can easily feign ignorance (and in this case, confusion), and lynching (or trying to lynch) a partner, to try and appear human; many of the things you say "clear" people in your recent PM don't actually seem to clear anybody of just being a wolf in general (in my opinion, only Dude, and maybe Yugi, is cleared from being your partner, based on what you said in the PM; because you took part in his lynch during such a rather early time period), unless you take even wider jumps of logic than I do...

In otherwords, im right and im not going to listen to anyone else right?

In other words, if you have something to say that could change my mind and clarify the situation, say it.

Well it's nice to know the entire point of the questioning in my post has been completely ignored...

What I was doing BDS was attempting to get you to give us some kind of conclusion evidence in your claims, FAILING THAT, I wanted to see what kind of "ifs, buts, and maybes" you've convinced yourself of.

So, essentially, you want me to yet again restate everything that I've been saying so you won't have to search through the topic...?
Wonderful! :3