TWG LV: The Choice is Doors

[BlackDragonSlayer]

The main suprising thing on this idea... was that nothing happened night 3. You think that someone would have made a move in that mess. My thoughts is that the wolf is someone who's easily paranoid, inactive, or not there.

Bold text: Highly laughable.

Because there's no wolfing, I'm really leaning towards an inactive/someone surrounded by inactive to be a wolf (as fank said.)

You make assumptions too easily (or, rather, are swayed too easily).

[Mashi]

Suspicious Tier (anyone inactive or locked in a room, pretty much, since there were no wolfings for 3 Night Phases):
Wrydryn - Hasn't contributed much anything at all and has been inactive for the entirety of the game.
Yugi - I don't find him as suspicious anymore because of his sincerity in being suspicious of Bird and TheZeldaPianist274 earlier in the game; I don't think a Wolf would be so accusatory when asked to defend himself, and I don't think a Wolf would voice suspicion of someone experienced like Bird.  He still fits in this category though, so he's staying here!!!
The_Subjective_Thought - He hasn't been locked in a room, but he's been inactive, so I wouldn't put it passed him to miss a few wolfings.


Bird Tier:
Bird - Hi!!!
fank009 - Can't really think of anything Human he's done.  Might just be my bad memory though!!!
Olimar12345 -  Haven't discussed much about him or seen much from him.
FireArrow - Same case as Olimar12345.


Probably Human Tier:
TheZeldaPianist274 - Door plans!!!
BlackDragonSlayer - I was originally suspicious of you, but Bird swayed me when he pointed out how unlikely your fervent disagreement with the door plans would be as a Wolf.
Toby - I feel that if he were a Wolf, he would have suggested some sort of complicated door plan or something by now.  Bird also brought up a good point that he would probably have better understood how the door and room mechanics worked if he were a Wolf to make the wolfings.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

For FireArrow... <3

Previous Suspicion List, for Reference

The below is mainly a summary of what I have said about the three people below, and tying them together as possible wolf partners.

Against Fank:
Early in the game, Fank appeared to try and guilt me into submission, which I found rather wolfish. More recently, his assumption (it is HIS assumption, correct?) that the wolves would sequester themselves seems to be something highly irrational for the wolves to do, unless they were inactive to the point where they hadn't even visited the topic (Yugi, one of the accused wolves, has at least visited the topic...). It doesn't make too much sense for a wolf to open their doors midway to (rather, on the edge of) Night 4, when the doors would automatically reverse (except for a few special rooms, as you know), unless they're completely lost and without a plan, which, assuming the accused wolves are competent, they would already have by now. If anything, this somewhat sporadic opening of doors could be contributed more to disoriented humans, as (I believe I mentioned above?) this would serve little to further the wolves' purpose, assuming the accused people are, in fact, wolves.
Unless I'm just giving the wolves too much credit, fank seems to be highly underestimating the wolves, which, as a wolf, could be intentional in an attempt to frame a group of other people as wolves.

Against Boy:
Early in the game, his vote (or at least, intended vote) for me was really odd, and, at least in my opinion, shows how little he was (at least at that point) actually TRYING to help the humans by searching for somebody he thought might've been a wolf. As FireArrow said in the chat: "If your a wolf, you want to look active, but you don't want to help humans," which is one of the things that can be deduced (there are other things, but for the purpose of my arguments, it would be too confusing and unhelpful to go into further detail about them) from his vote. His complaints about the communication limitations could be interpreted this way (e.g. as an attempt to seem active, without doing much).
Earlier, I thought Boy, of the three, was the most likely candidate for young wolf (this is assuming all three of them are wolves), but now, I think otherwise, since, at least earlier, Boy seemed to urge me to open my doors, and he appeared to be a bit perturbed when I didn't, which might be implying (if one assumes he is a wolf, as in this case) that he was hoping to wolf me the next night. In this post, it seems more as if he's itching to freely wolf somebody, rather than freely lynch somebody. Putting us all in one network would actually provide less information from the wolfings, since literally anybody could be a wolf in that situation.

Against Bird:
First of all, I think that Bird putting me rather low on his suspicion list might be a way to try and "save face," so to say, as to not take too much of a risk by lashing out at me.
Bird's plan early in the game to open all the doors was arguably somewhat ludicrous, and was most certain unjustifiably risky (given the amount of errors NOT allowed on the part of the human team). However, since Bird's (this and all of the following is assuming he's a wolf) plan apparently didn't work out quite as well as he had hoped (e.g. he didn't get everybody to open their doors), he thought of a new plan, a plan by which to try and confirm himself and others as humans. It seems logical (and it actually is quite a smart plan, aside from some potential obstacles along the way) that he would forgo a few wolfings (although I didn't expect this many) in order to frame another group of humans, and then, after they're done being lynched, tear apart the human team with double wolfings. After all, as has been said by Boy himself (correct person, yes?), the wolves can wait as long as they want... as long as they're not being lynched.



And now, is where I must say:
THE CHOICE IS DOORS!
The choice is doors whether you want to lynch me, or trust me, and I really hope that I've provided enough evidence for you all to trust me (which isn't exactly easy when you're just one person "fighting" against three...)!!
Off course, I could be all wrong, but there's time to think about that later...!!! Right...?

[fank009]

BDS, you've been getting maps right?

Lets go through what you've said.

after TZPs idea

That sounds like it might be a good idea, TZP, but it seems as if it's a bit too risky because of the wolves; essentially, it's an invitation for the maximum number of wolfings.

Possible plan for night one???

Again: that seems like an invitation for the wolves to maul us with multiple wolfings per night. If the wolves get two wolfings per night (or three?? :S), they'll win way before Night 4, especially with the potential for multiple lynches. Additionally, the special rooms may pose a bit of a problem...

Remember this quote?

Bold: Yes; that might be possible, and it's certainly something to take into consideration.

You still feel that way now???
more night one thoughts

I still don't see how opening all of our doors is beneficial, especially because the wolves can take us out in three nights if we do so (and that's if we don't lynch anybody!!), merely in exchange for enhanced communication.

It's better that they slowly deplete our numbers, and we have a few lynches to get the wolves, than the wolves kill us off two at a time, forcing us to be twice as careful with our lynches, if not more.

Lets not to mention, The failure to respond to this question...

Unless you can think of something better...
...

Day 1 thoughts...

Given the human to wolf ratio, and possible number of wolfings/lynchings, I'd say that it's better than literally offering yourselves up to the wolves.

Tell me something: Do you intend to get a wolf today?

Let me ask two more Qs,
Do you always intend to get a wolf day 1???
Did you (at this time) intend on getting a wolf at all???

I love how you grilled me, and not everyone else who opened their doors. Just me.

The same way that you intend to catch a wolf with your plan (e.g. magic *snort snort*). Well, maybe not exactly like that... also recall that I said might: it's not a best-case scenario, but it's not a worst-case scenario either (also see that I included a few human lynches in the situations, to demonstrate the wider margin of allowed errors); I assume that the human team will at least do SOMETHING to help find the wolves...

Loot at Mr Im not going to be helpful, being helpful to the human team as always.

2: Fank;...
When he asked me how I intended to get a wolf using my suggested plan, I told him something along the lines of "pretty much the same way you intend to," which, in my opinion (along with this), shows that he probably DOESN'T intend to get a wolf at all. As I mentioned, with his plan (the plan he wants to follow), it would be easy for the wolves to gain a victory because of the few errors allotted for the humans.

two things,
-You didnt know what i was intending at that point of time, what makes you the judge of what I plan to do??? (pokes mashi...)
-Again, as i stated earlier, Did you see my post? (which was aptly ignored :/ Mashi??? that human for you?)

• At this point, of those on my list of suspicious people, TZP seems a bit less suspicious than before, even though he was already on the bottom of suspicious people list.
• I disagree with fank: The young wolf will want to try and blend in with the humans. Dragging too much attention to itself is too risky. Although it can't wolf anybody (now, bear with me: although this seems a little contradictory, it makes sense... I think), it doesn't have any reasons not to open its doors.

-Um, I remember, my game as a Wolf, someone put a case against me not changing my suspicions.
-Again, With the young wolf, keeping a mental note here.

I WAS going to open my door(s)...

But, what kept you from opening them night 2?

Today, we lynch Boy (unless anybody can suggest any other reasonable alternatives). Tonight, we do not open/close any doors: if the wolves aren't "in the system," they can't wolf anybody, and we benefit (yaay); if the wolves are "in the system," they're pressured to wolf at least one person, thus revealing themselves (or at least the fact that they're "in the system").
This plan might work well, unless what TZP says is true, and the wolves don't care about any of that.

I love the Boy lynch idea, (*cough*)


This initiated the Q.
Here you made a statement that supposed (in my eyes,) that the wolves were laying low. Somewhat believable at the time of the post)

1st contradiction in the train of thought... Why would The young wolf put themself at more risk than the wolves???

Because the young wolf WON'T get lynched unless they act like a babbling gorilla, or unless the humans choose somebody at random (in which case, nothing the wolf/wolves did would matter in the first place).
Also, I never recall saying that the people who wolf would stay hidden. There's a possibility that all three of them are "in the system," waiting until the perfect time to strike (or it's possible that they ARE, in fact, waiting for us to whittle ourselves down): like Boy said, "Wolves can wait as long as they want."

Hello, If they were in the system, one, why arent they controlling the vote, two, why arent they wolfing to their hearts content???

I linked to his post, yes, but for a different point (e.g. that the wolves are merely waiting for us to whittle our own numbers down).
You say you're against letting the wolves make the first move, yet you appear not to want to lynch anybody (since you don't seem to be suggesting any possible alternatives for the lynch).

-Again with that "train of thought" (I admit, that thought let me go down that track.)
-Again with the presumptions. May I say, What you dont know, cant hurt ya.

Please lynch someone.

Boy! Boy! Boy!
But... Mashi... I didn't mess up this time. ;_;

-Hey, look, he's finally moving and wanting to do something... After he's been out of the loop, can we give the man props for his timing?

Does it seem logical, that, as a wolf (either normal wolf or young wolf; bringing oneself into obvious suspicion as either of these roles would, rather obviously, be unsmart ), I would only wait until now to open my door(s)? If I were a wolf, it would be logical to either open my doors at the very beginning, or wait until the door-reversal on Night 4 (or, survive until Night 4 with all my doors open, at which point, they all close, making me temporarily immune to lynchings).

Remember what you said wolves would do??? (and what you made me think wolves would do?)

My paranoia is my bane because of the paranoia of others. It doesn't make sense to risk getting lynched, especially in a situation like this, just to "join the network to gain human points," at the completely wrong time.
You say "contradictions," but I fail to see what you mean, especially if you're twisting my words and/or not understanding them at all in the first place.

-A valid point
-Contradictions from My point of view, Because (like the witnesses on Ace attorney) there are somethings that you being out of the loop, do not know.

You're making absolutely no sense, especially since, at the current moment, you just seem to be blaring things out to try and get people to vote for me!
Also, I assume you mean "no wolfings," and not "no lynchings," which also proves nothing, since it's possible, albeit a bit crazy, that the wolves can just as easily forgo wolfings in order to "confirm" their humanity and incriminate others, getting the humans to, as TZP said, whittle themselves down.

Off course, I don't know what you're talking about at the current moment, so I'm not quite sure if that is, in fact, what you mean.

-I do feel like that happening while I was out.
-yeah, I was getting wolfings/lynchings confused a lot, as i usually down (+1 wolf point: fank).
-Again, Stuff that you dont know 100%. WHY would wolves make the game last longer? it just gives a better chance to be lynched.
-Yes its a plan. Though Ive discussed the idea of Wolves vs Masons.
-"fank is too hard to understand" best argument for wolf ever. (you were spot on)

There's absolutely no contradiction there, unless you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.

You seem to be forgetting the use of possible, definition being, "Capable of occurring." I can't tell for certain how the wolves are playing, but I can speculate... or has speculating become "wrong" all of a sudden??

-What if your misunderstanding (or ignoring) what im trying to say???
-Speculation is all right... But you dont really speculate, You just shoot down others plans. (which i explain in this post)

Your not gettimg something bds,
Everytime i try to set down a foundation for the humans (or anyone else in fact), you come in and have a rebuttal of "what if wolves do this".
Its ok being cautious, but your rebuttals have left this contradiction.
How would the wolves stay hidden, locked in their network, and still fake out the humans???.

And that leads to the most frequently asked q this game, why have their been no wolfings, what are they waitinv for???

The idea that you know so many different ways for wolves to play the game, is somewhat alarming.
No one else has offered such suggestions (that i know of) that you have given.

And hence the question.
 Why???

two things that i need to put in english,
-You frequently shoot down ideas to create a stable base of players.
-You are the only person, widdling of these wild idea. No one else is giving the suggestions you are (not even me)

The wolves would stay hidden, yes, but they wouldn't necessarily be locked in their own network (I don't ever recall saying that they would be). I would assume that they would set themselves up in a strategic position (rather obviously).

-again, another result of the backlash of that "go home, your drunk" post
-That leads to the Q, What is the "strategic" position
 

To expand on my point:
It wouldn't make sense for the wolves to sequester themselves in a way that would not be beneficial to them or their plan, as should be obvious. If my assumption is correct, and the main reason for the top three on Bird's list is because they are people who tend to be "sequestering" themselves, I would say that this might make Bird a likelier wolf, because he, if he is a wolf, would be trying to frame those people by not sending in any wolfings.
Off course, I'm jumping the gun a bit, and should wait until Bird explains.

FINALLY... He agrees with a fank post, AND CONTRADICTS HIMSELF
-WHY dont they take the opportunity to wolf someone? Especially in last nights position. Also... Wouldn't this clear a lot of people due to meta, Meta of not being able to think of such a plan (no offence to those types of guys) or are too aggresive to not take such an opportunity in their open arms?
You say the idea is to frame people...

heres something from the chat between me and BDS.

Spoiler

07:36:04: <fank009> BDS,
07:36:12: <fank009> Why has your opinion changed
07:36:16: <fank009> Day 1,
07:36:19: <fank009> you were like
07:36:33: <fank009> Ah, stop it guys, them wolves are gonna kill us all
07:36:36: <fank009> and now your like
07:36:45: <fank009> them wolves are crafty beggars
07:37:09: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because the circumstances have changed: what I know has changed. What the wolves (assuming you are wolves) are doing has most likely changed.
07:38:46: <fank009> ...
07:38:56: <fank009> this game...
07:38:57: <fank009> is one
07:39:02: <fank009> that is difficult to plan
07:39:09: <fank009> and idea
07:39:09: <fank009> and you are putting forward
07:39:15: <fank009> that requires a lot of planning
07:39:19: <fank009> yes, wolves can plan...
07:39:26: <BlackDragonSlayer> Precisely: it is difficult to plan. That is why plans change.
07:39:27: <fank009> but you cant predict what the humans are going to do.
07:39:33: <fank009> ^
07:39:34: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is why plans change.
07:39:37: <fank009> point there.
07:39:42: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is what I'm saying.
07:39:44: <fank009> But why sit and wait?
07:39:58: <fank009> for the "perfect opportunity"
07:40:01: <fank009> remember
07:40:11: <fank009> there are masons in this game...
07:40:11: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because, although it's not time efficient, it's safer and more reliable than clumsily slaughtering everybody, and running the risk of getting lynched.
07:40:16: <BlackDragonSlayer> Exactly.
07:40:17: <fank009> just imagine how powerful they are...
07:40:27: <BlackDragonSlayer> There are three wolves versus two masons.
07:40:27: <fank009> as soon as the masons start moving...
07:40:37: <BlackDragonSlayer> If one of those masons dies, the other can do practically nothing.
07:40:43: <fank009> a potential 3 wolves vs a potential 2 masons.
07:40:49: <fank009> ^he can lead the lynch
07:40:52: <fank009> lead a group
07:40:57: <fank009> of course twos better than one
07:41:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> But people are easily swayed otherwise. If there's only one masons, the wolves can set two of themselves up as masons, as an excuse why they've been "taking charge" throughout the game.
07:42:05: <fank009> ...
07:42:12: <fank009> what if a masons been wolfed???
07:42:21: <fank009> thats pretty incriminating evidence
07:42:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> That's the point.
07:42:29: <fank009> i know that if a masons been lynched...
07:42:34: <fank009> If a masons been wolfe
07:42:35: <fank009> d
07:42:40: <BlackDragonSlayer> If a mason has been wolfed, the humans won't know anything about it.
07:42:44: <fank009> it be suicide to claim mason for the wolves
07:42:49: <fank009> except the other mason
07:42:55: <BlackDragonSlayer> No.
07:43:02: <BlackDragonSlayer> Since nobody can prove they aren't masons.
07:43:07: <fank009> ...
07:43:17: <BlackDragonSlayer> Unless the masons told somebody else beforehand.
07:43:22: <fank009> isnt the wolfing evidence enough?
07:43:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> Rather, a few other people.
07:43:26: <BlackDragonSlayer> No.
07:43:32: <BlackDragonSlayer> It doesn't provide any evidence.
07:43:36: <fank009> ...
07:43:40: <BlackDragonSlayer> They can't verify that the person wolfed was a mason.
07:43:45: <fank009> a wolf can fake claim a dead partner.
07:43:48: <fank009> BDS...
07:43:52: <fank009> Why do you need 2 people...
07:43:55: <fank009> to squeal
07:43:59: <fank009>
07:44:05: <fank009> you are too paranoid
07:44:07: <BlackDragonSlayer> You're not making any sense...
07:44:12: <fank009> Me?
07:44:13: <BlackDragonSlayer> Logical, yes.
07:44:14: <fank009> what about you?
07:44:14: <BlackDragonSlayer>
07:44:32: <fank009> maybe im too trusting
07:44:43: <fank009> You can tell by the way people play the game
07:44:50: <fank009> wether they are lying or not.
07:44:50: <BlackDragonSlayer> If there's only one mason, they can't do anything to prove that they're a mason, unless they contacted several other people beforehand.
07:44:58: <fank009> ^
07:45:05: <fank009> and that would require testing someone.
07:45:12: <fank009> BDS,
07:45:22: <fank009> WHY cant a mason be cleared by their way of thought???
07:45:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> Hello Subthought.
07:45:27: <fank009> TST
07:45:32: <Subthought> Hi
07:45:38: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because it can't be verified.
07:45:41: <fank009> ...
07:45:45: <BlackDragonSlayer> The wolves can just as easily act as masons.
07:45:51: <fank009> yeah
07:45:59: <fank009> and do the ends justifiy the means?
07:46:04: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is something you don't seem to understand, if I am comprehending what you're saying?
07:46:05: <fank009> If mashi claimed mason to me right now
07:46:09: <fank009> i would believe it.
07:46:17: <Subthought> Just logging on here to look at the what the conversation is, have to go now, be back in a bit
07:46:26: <fank009> because he has given me enough evidence that he's not a wolf.
07:46:27: <BlackDragonSlayer> But he would have to have somebody else to verify him.
07:46:31: <fank009> ...
07:46:34: <fank009> No he wouldnt
07:46:40: <fank009> How else do you win at final 3???
07:46:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> Then he could just as easily be a wolf.
07:46:47: <fank009> ...
07:46:48: <fank009> BDS
07:46:49: <BlackDragonSlayer> In that case.
07:46:50: <fank009> you really...
07:46:52: <fank009> need to learn
07:46:54: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which you don't seem to understand.
07:46:56: <fank009> how a wolf plays
07:47:02: <fank009> and how a human plays
07:47:06: <fank009> I dont understand?
07:47:07: <BlackDragonSlayer> ...
07:47:11: <fank009> you are talking to the guy
07:47:18: <fank009> who randomly admitted to 3 people...
07:47:23: <fank009> who were human last game...
07:47:28: <fank009> that he was daernyes
07:47:33: <fank009> the best role in the game.
07:47:45: <fank009> Do not tell me I dont know what im talking about.
07:47:52: <fank009> Its all about reads.
07:48:04: <fank009> you want another example?
07:48:09: <fank009> ill give you another example
07:48:11: <fank009> Verm,
07:48:11: <BlackDragonSlayer> That pretty much negates what you're saying about me being paranoid.
07:48:21: <fank009> ...
07:48:22: <BlackDragonSlayer> If you think about it.
07:48:27: <fank009> in what way...
07:48:32: <fank009> are you not paranoid?
07:48:49: <fank009> who says you werent paranoid?
07:49:15: <BlackDragonSlayer> It's sort of hard to explain...
07:49:19: <fank009> ...
07:49:25: <fank009> go on, explain it.
07:49:38: <BlackDragonSlayer> What you said about "reads" is sort of confusing me a bit.
07:49:39: <fank009> and you judge me? for things that are hard to explain?
07:49:48: <BlackDragonSlayer> Hold on, I'm thinking...
07:49:48: <fank009> you know...
07:49:48: <fank009> reads
07:50:00: <fank009> you want to know what my reads are?
07:50:05: <fank009> I have one guaranteed read
07:50:10: <fank009> and thats mashi's a human
07:50:20: <fank009> I was reading Dude to be a wolf as well
07:50:27: <BlackDragonSlayer> You say that I'm paranoid for judging people by facts filtered through my instincts (as I would say it), but you're essentially doing something similar.
07:50:29: <fank009> hence me pushing for his lynch.
07:50:52: <fank009> BDS,
07:51:00: <fank009> ^
07:51:05: <fank009> I agree to doing the same thing
07:51:20: <fank009> and im known to be paranoid at times.
07:51:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> If there's one definitive way to judge whether or not somebody is a wolf, then there wouldn't be any trouble finding the wolves.
07:51:32: <fank009> ...
07:51:39: <fank009> no
07:51:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> What you say as "reads" might not apply from person to person.
07:51:45: <fank009> it doesnt work like that.
07:51:48: <fank009> ^
07:51:50: <fank009> different reads
07:51:54: <fank009> for different people
07:52:02: <fank009> but im confident on my mashi read
07:52:05: <BlackDragonSlayer> Essentially, not all wolves act the same, and not always does the same person act the same way as a wolf... or even a human.
07:52:10: <fank009> ...
07:52:12: <fank009> ^
07:52:14: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'm not saying that you're not on your Mashi read.
07:52:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> *you're wrong
07:52:34: <fank009> you dont trust my reads?
07:52:37: <fank009> I admit
07:52:41: <fank009> they are wrong at times.
07:52:54: <BlackDragonSlayer> Especially if you are a wolf...

[close]

And now for the whole chat log that I have...


And some more quotes,
This one in response to FA.

You make assumptions too easily (or, rather, are swayed too easily).

You speculate too easily.

As I said, I highly doubt that the wolves would wait until this time to open their doors; it would draw too much suspicion to them. They'd most likely open their doors at the beginning, or just go all the way and wait until Night 4 (which might also be risky, especially in a situation like this).

Who's saying all of them did?

And I would post one more thing, But that is against the rules...
BDS, Your list of 3 is a contradiction. I sent you a PM Day 2. That should have all the details. Just think for a moment.

Also...

Chat log next post (its too long :/)
No one else strikes you as marginally suspicious? Especially the inactive ones??? You just kept that list, and made a proper argument for them... Reminds me of someone who played as a wolf not too long ago *cough*

[fank009]

Spoiler

04:37:07: <Olimar12345> Checking in
04:37:16: <Olimar12345> how goes it?
04:37:46: <Olimar12345> Has anyone got any information on Yugi that they can share?
04:38:12: <Olimar12345> I have a great theory that might be able to prove him being a wolf
04:38:31: <Olimar12345> But, alas, I can't chat directly with him.
04:40:42: <Olimar12345> I sure hope someone speaks up, as I can't be on long ;-;
04:45:42: <Olimar12345> Man, I haven't had much luck this TWG.
04:47:24: <Mashi> Everything we know about Yugi is pretty much in the chat we had.
04:47:41: <Mashi> He hasn't done anything aside from that.
04:51:55: <Firearrow> Helloo
04:55:04: <Olimar12345> thank god someone showed up
04:55:12: <Olimar12345> oh and hi mashi
04:55:28: <Olimar12345> so no one knows what yugi has been up to
04:55:29: <Olimar12345> ?
04:55:33: <Firearrow> nope
04:55:34: <Mashi> We do.
04:55:37: <Mashi> He's been inactive.
04:55:41: <Olimar12345> oh?
04:55:42: <Firearrow> WE can
04:55:46: <Firearrow> we can't talk to you mashi
04:55:47: <Olimar12345> do you believe that?
04:55:49: <Firearrow> I don't think
04:56:09: <fank009> ...
04:56:15: <fank009> Wazzup
04:56:31: <Firearrow> fank, why BDS?
04:56:34: <Mashi> He's been isolated in the same room for the past 6 Phases.
04:56:36: <Mashi> So probably!
04:56:48: <Olimar12345> yes, explan the BDS lynch
04:56:55: <Mashi> We can talk publicly so long as we don't directly talk about our Networks.
04:56:55: <Firearrow> Wait, mashi's in our network?
04:57:00: <Olimar12345> I'll get back to Yugi
04:57:06: <Firearrow> oh derp
04:57:07: <Mashi> We just can't say which Rooms we're in and things.
04:57:14: <fank009> well
04:57:17: <fank009> the bds lynch...
04:57:26: <Firearrow> We'd have to post the log in the thread
04:57:30: <fank009> maybe im reading too much into it..
04:57:32: <Mashi> Yes.
04:57:58: <Firearrow> Oh, sorry for derailing our conversation olimar
04:58:11: <Olimar12345> np, I'll bring it back up later
04:58:15: <Olimar12345> I want to hear this
04:58:17: <fank009> As you see...
04:59:06: <fank009> There is one thing that BDS is doing...
04:59:25: <Firearrow> You can just say it without trailing your thoughts...
04:59:41: <fank009> and thats shooting down every idea thats come up.
04:59:54: <fank009> and like i pointed out.
04:59:58: <Firearrow> He did that that last game
04:59:59: <fank009> theres some contradictory thinking
05:00:17: <fank009> I agree he is like that.
05:00:22: <Firearrow> It actually really annoyed me
05:00:36: <Olimar12345> hmm.
05:00:41: <Olimar12345> I have a question
05:00:42: <Firearrow> I just don't see how it makes him a wolf this game, sorry
05:01:22: <Olimar12345> '...Starting from night 4, each door that has been closed for at least two night phases in a row, will automatically be opened, and vice versa with exception of the doors of the inaccesable and inclosable rooms."
05:02:00: <Olimar12345> Does this mean that if someone just opened their door, they can close it night 4?
05:02:51: <fank009> Here's the wierd thing about my BDS lean,
05:02:53: <Olimar12345> if so, BDS (and myself I guess) could've done this on purpose
05:03:10: <fank009> originally, I was just poking at him.
05:03:19: <Firearrow> Oh, to keep the doors from changing olimar?
05:03:26: <Olimar12345> yeah
05:03:35: <fank009> But as each nights gone on, he comes up with an excuse as to why there hasnt been any wolfings...
05:03:37: <fank009> The thing is...
05:03:45: <fank009> He's missing the point of the 6 of us.
05:03:51: <fank009> night 2 was reasonable
05:03:53: <fank009> yes.
05:03:56: <fank009> But night 3...
05:03:59: <fank009> there was 6 of us
05:04:04: <fank009> and we were planning to split up
05:04:15: <fank009> perfect time to wolf someone.
05:04:31: <fank009> and be virtually undetected
05:05:16: <Firearrow> I guess it would make sense
05:05:26: <Firearrow> Unless what olimar said is true
05:05:46: <fank009> what exactly?
05:06:04: <Firearrow> I'm thinking that atleast 2 of the wolves have to be one of the following: Olimar/BDS/Yugi/Wry
05:06:13: <Firearrow> Olimar is really unlikely at this point
05:06:21: <Firearrow> But I guess BDS could be a possibility now
05:06:31: <Firearrow> Oh, and boy
05:09:57: <fank009> ...
05:10:10: <fank009> I dont want to lynch any of the "6" before anything
05:10:14: <fank009> we lynch them last
05:10:20: <fank009> lynch the other 5 1st
05:10:25: <fank009> unless someone claims mason.
05:10:28: <Firearrow> Thats why I want yugi
05:10:37: <fank009> then we'll simply not lynch them.
05:10:48: <fank009> and continue on our merry way
05:13:52: <Olimar12345> so back to yugi..
05:14:28: <Firearrow> Lets do it ^
05:14:29: <fank009> im feeling yugi is a wolf...
05:14:34: <fank009> everytime ive had that read,
05:14:34: <Olimar12345> has anyone else noticed that he claims to be inactive, but is extremely active elsewhere in the forums?
05:14:41: <Firearrow> I really don't see any reason not to
05:14:44: <fank009> he's flipped human
05:14:52: <fank009> what if he has nothing good to say?
05:15:26: <Olimar12345> I suppose that's a possibility.
05:16:21: <Olimar12345> but he could at least be more active here, in the chat.
05:16:37: <fank009> possibly
05:16:42: <Olimar12345> And before anyone says anything, he could be. I know this for a fact
05:16:46: <fank009> i never found him as an active person though
05:17:01: <Olimar12345> he has shown up multiple times on my feedback tinychat
05:17:19: <Olimar12345> thus, proving that he can be active on a chat
05:17:35: <Olimar12345> so why isn't he here more often?
05:17:54: <Firearrow> I really can't answer that
05:17:55: <Olimar12345> FireArrow, weren't you there with him last time you were online?
05:18:03: <Firearrow> Yeah
05:18:08: <Firearrow> I remember him in tiny chat
05:18:26: <Firearrow> He did come to chat once, but all he did was talk to me about arranging instead of TWG
05:18:35: <Olimar12345> Hell, he even posted in the thread today telling me to get online (even when I couldn't)
05:18:54: <Firearrow> hello
05:19:00: <Firearrow> we are discussing lynching yugi
05:19:04: <BlackDragonSlayer> FireArrow: WHY do you make assumptions so easily???
05:19:16: <Firearrow> What assumptions?
05:19:19: <Olimar12345> ??
05:19:23: <Olimar12345> what prompted that?
05:19:24: <Firearrow> Why don't you make any and shoot all the others down?
05:19:36: <BlackDragonSlayer> That the wolf/wolves are people who are sequestered, or were.
05:19:48: <BlackDragonSlayer> It wouldn't make any sense for the wolves to trap themselves in such a way.
05:19:52: <fank009> Mashi...
05:20:08: <fank009> Thoughts on BDS being Arrogant???
05:20:13: <Mashi> what happened
05:20:14: <Mashi> who died
05:20:16: <Mashi> what did i do
05:20:19: <fank009> This chat
05:20:20: <Firearrow> Because it would make sense for them to skip two nights of wolfing even though they could wolf someone [/sarcasm]
05:20:21: <fank009> died
05:20:28: <BlackDragonSlayer> Unless they never even got on in the first place, I think they could at least muster up the activity to be smart.
05:20:35: <fank009> ...
05:20:36: <Mashi> I think BlackDragonSlayer can be a bit adamant sometimes, but I wouldn't say arrogant.
05:20:39: <fank009> The 6 of us were active
05:20:49: <Mashi> He's gotten a lot better though, he's pretty cool!
05:20:58: <fank009> unless You are implying what i think you are implying BDS...
05:20:59: <Firearrow> Who said he was arrogant?
05:21:06: <BlackDragonSlayer> Arrogant is too strong a verb. Confident has a muuucch more positive connotation! :3
05:21:07: <fank009> You are scum buddehs with TST
05:21:13: <Mashi> Yes.
05:21:19: <Mashi> BlackDragonSlayer is very confident!
05:21:20: <Mashi>
05:21:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> ^_^
05:21:27: <fank009> WAIT
05:21:28: <Firearrow> I'm confused...
05:21:31: <fank009> BDS is confident
05:21:33: <fank009> Im arrogant???
05:21:37: <Mashi> Yes.
05:21:43: <fank009> (mashi called me arrogant earlier...)
05:21:47: <Firearrow> dafuq is going on...
05:21:49: <Mashi> Would you like a poll???
05:21:55: <fank009> Mashi,
05:21:56: <fank009> thats bias
05:22:03: <fank009> I all know everyone wants my head
05:22:06: <fank009> but guess what
05:22:07: <fank009> you aint getting it
05:22:17: <fank009> ehyu
05:22:18: <fank009> why?
05:22:20: <Mashi>
05:22:23: <fank009> because lynchings are like wolfigns
05:22:35: <fank009> if people can wolf through closed doors, wouldnt they do so allready?
05:22:59: <BlackDragonSlayer> If they can wolf through close doors, we would've been dead by now.
05:23:00: <fank009> Time to post my argument as to why TST/BDS are the wolves
05:23:05: <fank009> ^
05:23:07: <fank009> exactly
05:23:08: <BlackDragonSlayer> With the number of lynchings we've had.
05:23:09: <fank009> so...
05:23:23: <fank009> dont go about trying to think you can lynch me when i cant...
05:23:26: <BlackDragonSlayer> So, essentially, you think that we've highly unintelligent.
05:23:27: <fank009> *you
05:23:32: <BlackDragonSlayer> Both TST and I.
05:23:33: <fank009> no.
05:23:36: <fank009> not that
05:23:42: <BlackDragonSlayer> Then why do you think we are wolves??
05:23:48: <fank009> TST,
05:23:56: <fank009> for his sudden knee jerk activity
05:23:58: <fank009> and you,
05:24:03: <fank009> for your in thread comments
05:24:06: <BlackDragonSlayer> If I were a wolf, I would've opened my doors Night 1 and carried out two wolfings a night.
05:24:11: <fank009> ...
05:24:14: <fank009> no you wouldnt have
05:24:18: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yes.
05:24:20: <fank009> your too paranoid
05:24:24: <fank009> No.
05:24:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> And we would've won by now.
05:24:36: <BlackDragonSlayer> Paranoid, but in a strategic way.
05:24:39: <fank009> I doubt it BDS
05:24:40: <BlackDragonSlayer>
05:24:47: <BlackDragonSlayer> People doubt me a lot...
05:24:57: <fank009> people doubt me a lot as well
05:25:00: <fank009> welcome to the club.
05:25:18: <fank009> all the kings men wasnt a good game to start on here :/
05:25:28: <fank009> I think i played too well xD
05:25:36: <fank009> and people are paranoid of me xD
05:25:43: <fank009> well, thats what i think anyway.
05:26:34: <Firearrow> people 3 pms
05:27:22: <Mashi> I'm not doubting you, BlackDragonSlayer!!!
05:27:38: <BlackDragonSlayer> <3
05:27:41: <fank009> ...
05:27:46: <Mashi> <3
05:27:56: <fank009> I feel like im going to be lynched based on "history"
05:27:59: <fank009> which is stupid
05:28:06: <fank009> well
05:28:13: <fank009> BDS having a better history than me
05:28:24: <BlackDragonSlayer> I do have to point out, Mashi, that it's possible to feign ignorance, especially with something as complex as the door mechanic.
05:28:41: <Mashi> You mean for Toby?
05:28:48: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yes.
05:29:04: <fank009> ^
05:29:10: <fank009> Definetly
05:29:10: <Mashi> I don't think he was based on his PMs and how confused he seemed, but I understand what you mean.
05:29:18: <Mashi> fank009 went on an accusing spree for something he said.
05:29:22: <BlackDragonSlayer> Something to take into consideration
05:29:28: <Mashi> And wanted to lynch him for some reason to test me???
05:29:29: <fank009> ...
05:29:55: <fank009> I was hasty
05:30:04: <fank009> because i didnt know what was in that pm...
05:30:09: <fank009> I forgot,
05:30:22: <fank009> on how people might "break the rules" as exhibited by today
05:30:30: <Mashi> who broke the rules
05:30:33: <fank009> (unintentionally of course)
05:30:50: <Mashi> Oh, you mean me trying to talk to you???
05:30:55: <Mashi> Yeah, that was my mistake, sorry!
05:30:56: <fank009> no
05:30:59: <Mashi> o
05:31:00: <fank009> you can talk to me
05:31:03: <fank009> i cant talk to you
05:31:09: <Mashi> That's what I meant!
05:31:20: <fank009> i would like the mass pms still so i can forward to my people
05:31:44: <fank009> I recieved something from toby i shouldnt have.
05:31:50: <fank009> (today)
05:31:52: <fank009> anyway...
05:31:54: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is...?
05:31:59: <fank009> my main argument,
05:31:59: <BlackDragonSlayer> Or can you not say?
05:32:00: <Mashi> Let's just pretend I forwarded it to you.
05:32:05: <fank009> ^
05:32:14: <fank009> you can forward it to me...
05:32:19: <fank009> oh wait...
05:32:27: <fank009> i dont think you can...
05:32:33: <fank009> anyway
05:32:37: <fank009> my reasons for toby...
05:35:32: <BlackDragonSlayer> ...
05:35:33: <BlackDragonSlayer> ?
05:35:49: <Mashi> blackdragonslayer he just listed his reasons
05:35:53: <Mashi> but i will reiterate
05:35:54: <fank009> xD
05:35:55: <Mashi> "..."
05:36:04: <fank009> I was chatting to Fire arrow.
05:36:10: <fank009> because i can
05:36:12: <Mashi> wuffs
05:36:24: <fank009> more like neighbours
05:36:31: <fank009> As i was saying.
05:36:47: <BlackDragonSlayer> What he said was legitimate. I think. Or he is wolf buddies.
05:36:51: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which I doubt.
05:37:02: <fank009> BDS
05:37:06: <fank009> look at a map will you
05:37:07: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yes
05:37:15: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yes, I can see it.
05:37:26: <fank009> and im pretty sure toby should have forwarded my rage mail to mashi
05:38:20: <fank009> My main reason for the toby lynch
05:38:26: <fank009> was that they were wolf buddehs
05:38:38: <fank009> cause...
05:38:45: <fank009> dammit i cant say it...
05:38:49: <fank009> well you should know BDS
05:38:54: <fank009> Wait
05:38:56: <fank009> can I?
05:39:05: <Firearrow> I'm not following this chat
05:39:09: <fank009> this is the stupid thing about semi closed communication
05:39:14: <fank009> you dont know whats good and whats not
05:39:48: <fank009> I think I can tell you this,
05:39:58: <fank009> (i dont know really...
05:40:06: <fank009> because it's based on info from a PM)
05:40:09: <fank009> anyway...
05:40:13: <fank009> ITs based on that info
05:40:18: <fank009> which you should know...
05:40:25: <fank009> wait
05:40:27: <fank009> I can say
05:40:33: <fank009> because of "the map"
05:40:36: <fank009> think about it...
05:44:53: <fank009> wait
05:44:54: <fank009> no..
05:44:59: <fank009> yeah
05:45:03: <fank009> i cant tell you sorry BDS
05:45:06: <fank009> wait
05:45:19: <fank009> I allready told you why I was going for toby
05:45:28: <fank009> I sent you that PM back when i could.
05:45:29: <fank009> Read that.
05:46:10: <Olimar12345> well, I have been online longer that I said I could have been,(xD) so I have to go for now :/
05:46:20: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because the log??
05:46:22: <Olimar12345> Sorry guys, (this was getting interesting)
05:46:23: <Firearrow> Ok, night!
05:46:36: <fankafk> That log i sent you...
05:46:39: <Olimar12345> I'll try to get back on tomorrow.
05:46:43: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yes, I have it.
05:46:44: <Olimar12345> bye
05:46:45: <fankafk> was my logic for the Toby lynch
05:48:08: <BlackDragonSlayer> It would make sense for TST to be PMing Toby, though, even if he wasn't a wolf, because of the Warp Room (if you've seen the map, you'll know what I mean).
05:48:24: <fankafk> ...
05:48:29: <fankafk> what about from tobys end?
05:48:37: <BlackDragonSlayer> The fact that TST is more active than he appears to be is a bit suspicious.
05:48:41: <fankafk> I Invented the map
05:48:49: <fankafk> BDS,
05:48:52: <fankafk> If TST was a wolf
05:48:55: <fankafk> he would have lynched
05:49:00: <fankafk> unless someone told him not to.
05:49:03: <fankafk> (wolfed)
05:50:06: <fankafk> and he was against the Toby lynch...
05:50:14: <fankafk> but no one was wolfed
05:50:19: <fankafk> which makes me think
05:50:22: <fankafk> they are both human.
05:51:30: <Firearrow> Anyways, whats the plan for now?
05:51:47: <fankafk> we lynch BDS
05:52:05: <Firearrow> That's a change, but ok
05:52:05: <BlackDragonSlayer> Your reasoning??
05:53:13: <fankafk> ...
05:53:20: <fankafk> Look at my posts in the thread
05:53:27: <fankafk> and i will build more on it when i have time.
05:53:33: <BlackDragonSlayer> Rather, should I say, your reasoning without assuming I am a nincompoop.
05:53:43: <fankafk> no
05:53:54: <fankafk> I dont think your a nincompoop
05:53:57: <BlackDragonSlayer> I have answered all the things you have said, at least for now.
05:54:01: <fankafk> just trying to make us think you are
05:54:02: <Firearrow> assumptions are a necessity for taking risks
05:54:05: <BlackDragonSlayer> That was a partial joke...
05:54:15: <fankafk> I dont like your answers
05:54:16: <fankafk> ok?
05:54:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because people always seem to treat me like I would be a really dumb wolf.
05:54:42: <Firearrow> Everyone treats everyone like that
05:54:45: <fankafk> I see you as a smart wolf BDS
05:55:22: <BlackDragonSlayer> I haven't survived very long both times I was a wolf (one time was my fault, though)...
05:55:39: <BlackDragonSlayer> You're also assuming that I'd be too paranoid to do anything.
05:56:46: <Firearrow> That's what you seem to be doing this game...
05:57:14: <fankafk> ^
05:57:19: <fankafk> sometimes
05:57:25: <fankafk> I dont have to justify my reasons
05:57:32: <fankafk> you nail them for me just fine
05:57:58: <BlackDragonSlayer> There you are, again making assumptions.
05:57:58: <Firearrow> Hey, I did something smart
05:58:00: <Firearrow> lol
05:58:09: <Firearrow> BDS, this is TWG
05:58:12: <BlackDragonSlayer> And overreacting as you people always seem to do.
05:58:13: <Firearrow> we can't base everything on facts
05:58:18: <BlackDragonSlayer> IRRATIONAL ASSUMPTIONS
05:58:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> Should I say?
05:58:39: <Firearrow> Fine, what are your rational assumptions...
05:59:50: <BlackDragonSlayer> That the wolves might not be foolish enough to sequester themselves in such a way to draw suspicion to themselves in a way that is not at all helpful for them, in any justifiable way.
06:00:12: <Firearrow> So the opposite of what I say?
06:00:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is something that you assume otherwise.
06:00:36: <Firearrow> You just don't seem to be doing much
06:00:52: <Firearrow> you sit back and tell people that their wrong, but where are your leads?
06:00:58: <Firearrow> That's wolfish behavior
06:00:59: <BlackDragonSlayer> What do you mean by that?
06:01:08: <Firearrow> activity without being active
06:01:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> I don't just tell people they're wrong.
06:01:29: <BlackDragonSlayer> That is just plain twisting the facts.
06:01:44: <Firearrow> Fine, you tell people their wrong and give valid reasons
06:02:02: <BlackDragonSlayer> And I propose reason of my own why certain people are or are not suspicious.
06:02:12: <Firearrow> But never why someone is
06:02:22: <BlackDragonSlayer> No?
06:02:29: <Firearrow> That's my whole point
06:02:46: <Firearrow> If your a wolf, you want to look active, but you don't want to help humans
06:02:50: <BlackDragonSlayer> I said, "No," not "Yes," so I was disagreeing with you.
06:02:57: <BlackDragonSlayer> In that case, everybody is a wolf.
06:03:08: <BlackDragonSlayer> Everybody is just being "hollow."
06:03:21: <Firearrow> I'm not quite sure what you mean by that?
06:03:29: <BlackDragonSlayer> Since it seems as if you're judging my level of activity in a different way than that of others...
06:03:52: <Firearrow> I'm saying activity = trying to find the wolves
06:04:18: <BlackDragonSlayer> And that is one of the things I've been trying to do, aside from defending myself to a certain degree.
06:04:43: <Firearrow> Yet you've never said anything along the lines of "I think ... is a wolf" iirc
06:05:05: <BlackDragonSlayer> I have done that.
06:05:18: <Firearrow> quote, because if you have I'm sorry
06:05:37: <BlackDragonSlayer> Boy, Bird, and Fank, mainly.
06:05:54: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'll try and find quote soon, but I'll have to look through most of the topic again.
06:05:58: <Firearrow> MY point is now null and void :3
06:06:10: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'll find quotes; I'll be right back...
06:06:10: <BlackDragonSlayer> ...
06:06:13: <Firearrow> The only reason for me to lynch you know is to trust fank
06:06:28: <Firearrow> which I do and I think we should stick together so something gets done
06:06:35: <Firearrow> but I really would rather do yugi/wry before you
06:07:10: <Firearrow> Even bird is more suspicous to me then you (look at dat 100% accurate list of mine.)
06:07:37: <Firearrow> And sorry again BDS, I do make tons of assumptions, but I'm not stubborn about them if you give good reasons
06:13:40: <fank009> ...
06:13:45: <fank009> did i miss anything?
06:13:59: <Firearrow> Me and BDS yelling at eachother
06:14:10: <fank009> xD
06:14:21: <Firearrow> Then I aditted I was wrong and he quite,
06:14:24: <Firearrow> quit
06:14:27: <fank009> ...
06:14:31: <fank009> wrong in what way?
06:14:38: <Firearrow> I'm not really suspicious of him anymore
06:14:49: <Firearrow> I thought he was "being active without being active"
06:15:02: <Firearrow> but he showed me that he was actively trying to find wolves
06:15:16: <fank009> ...
06:15:20: <fank009> of course
06:15:25: <fank009> thats what you do as a wolf :/
06:15:53: <Firearrow> um, so I was completely wrong to admit I was wrong? xD
06:16:18: <fank009> xD
06:16:25: <fank009> you do whatever you feel like
06:17:47: <Firearrow> eh, that didn't work out last game
06:17:54: <fank009> ... xD
06:19:04: <Firearrow> You abandoned me my love
06:19:06: <BlackDragonSlayer> Connection lost; eh...
06:19:28: <Firearrow> fank told me that I was wrong to say I was wrong...
06:19:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> ?
06:19:51: <Firearrow> oh, MASHI I NEED DAT HAHRUI MELANCHOLY WHATEVER LINK
06:19:57: <Firearrow> I'm addicted
06:20:06: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'm making one of them big posts in the topic.
06:20:16: <BlackDragonSlayer> Just for you! :3
06:20:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> (well, not JUST, but still...)
06:20:35: <Firearrow> Yay
06:20:59: <Firearrow> fank toalk
06:21:02: <Firearrow> talk*
06:21:18: <Firearrow> I don't know what to say to him, I kinda already shouted my brains out
06:22:31: <Firearrow> oh rofl it's on the first page
06:22:32: <Firearrow> ncm
06:28:35: <Firearrow> chat died
06:32:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'm tying a giant post, and oddly enough, I have a bit of writers' block.
06:32:28: <BlackDragonSlayer> *typing
06:32:43: <Firearrow> Oh np
06:32:43: <BlackDragonSlayer> At least, somewhat giant.
06:32:49: <Firearrow> That's more important than this
06:33:29: <fank009> ...
06:33:31: <fank009> you and I both BDS
06:33:51: <bird> what up homies
06:33:57: <bird> where da wolfs at
06:34:01: <Firearrow> being awesome
06:34:34: <fank009> da wolfs are hiding???
06:35:00: <Firearrow> no
06:35:09: <Firearrow> they're right under your nose
06:35:30: <Firearrow> oops, I just broke a back scratcher
06:38:17: <fank009> :/
06:39:10: <bird> FireArrow: who are ur suspicions
06:39:20: <Firearrow> Yugi, wry, and you
06:39:41: <Firearrow> boy/tst could take wry's spot
06:39:49: <Firearrow> maybe bds, but he convinced me earlier
06:39:55: <bird> sounds good lets do it
06:40:07: <bird> besides the killing me part
06:40:11: <fank009> ...
06:40:14: <Firearrow> Everyone on my list is in the other network though >.>:
06:40:14: <fank009> And the moment..
06:40:18: <bird> eh i wouldn't mind dying as long as the other two died honestly
06:40:23: <fank009> my sus are yugi/wry/dude
06:40:30: <fank009> dont forget to add lynches as a suspiciom
06:40:37: <fank009> because they arent clear
06:40:48: <Firearrow> I don't know what to think about dude
06:40:49: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'm completely reformatting my post.
06:41:13: <BlackDragonSlayer> I was going to make it a compilation of things I had said, but it has now evolved into just a summary...
06:41:30: <BlackDragonSlayer> It's easier to do it that way; I hope you won't mind.
06:41:49: <BlackDragonSlayer> I AM, however, rephrasing a few things I've said earlier.
06:41:50: <fank009> Best of BDS?
06:41:53: <fank009> I thought thats what I was supposed to do? xD
06:41:57: <BlackDragonSlayer>
06:42:03: <BlackDragonSlayer> TWG LV, Best of BDS CD
06:42:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> Coming to a store near you, sometime around 7/3/13 or 7/4/13.
06:42:39: <fank009> xD
06:42:43: <fank009> well
06:42:50: <fank009> you have about 5 hrs to pump it out then xD
06:43:11: <BlackDragonSlayer> It's going to be midnight PST in about 17 minutes.
06:43:11: <Firearrow> He's pst, he's got 20 mins :3
06:43:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yeah.
06:43:28: <Firearrow> be more accurate, fine
06:56:38: <fank009> ...
06:56:39: <fank009> pokes
06:56:43: <fank009> you guys still here???
06:56:48: <Firearrow> hi
06:57:04: <Firearrow> I'm just arranging music while I'm waiting for dem big posts
06:57:19: <Firearrow> seeing if I can finish first
06:57:30: <BlackDragonSlayer> It's not as big as I hoped, but it's still not done yet.
06:58:49: <fank009> xD
06:58:57: <fank009> Im up to page... 7 or so
06:59:08: <Firearrow> 7... pages?!
06:59:10: <fank009> im not going to be adding any chats because...
06:59:17: <fank009> (im going through the thread
06:59:20: <Firearrow> oh
06:59:42: <fank009> I havent had any BDS private chats :/
07:00:37: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because I've kept my doors closed for quite some time.
07:01:09: <fank009> ^
07:05:25: <Firearrow> Bleh, you guys still aren't done yet...
07:05:50: <Firearrow> I don't wanna miss meh TV time, so I may log off before I read it
07:15:12: <Firearrow> Bye
07:16:55: BlackDragonSlayer collapses to the ground, burnt and exhausted, holding a few sheets of charred paper, still smoking from fire.
07:17:07: BlackDragonSlayer mutters, "Read... read...!!"
07:17:12: <BlackDragonSlayer> And then he dies.
07:17:50: <fank009> ...
07:17:54: <fank009> your not dead yet.
07:18:03: <BlackDragonSlayer> That was a joke!!
07:18:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> I "died" from the discharge of energy I put into making my recent post.
07:18:38: <BlackDragonSlayer> Aaaah, never mind...
07:19:05: <fank009> i know that was a joke...
07:19:07: <fank009> and may i say
07:19:33: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yesss...??
07:20:35: <fank009> about me and my "idea" of the theory the wolves are remaining silent
07:20:45: <fank009> You know...
07:21:54: <fank009> I dont know which idea is more stupid...
07:22:01: <fank009> Mine, Or yours...
07:22:07: <fank009> and yours leads to the idea of.
07:23:57: <fank009> So many people to wolf
07:24:08: <fank009> yet no one was wolfed???
07:24:25: <fank009> this is the stupid thing about closed communication.
07:27:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> "So many people to wolf, yet no one was wolfed???"
07:27:28: <BlackDragonSlayer> Yes, in a way.
07:28:10: <BlackDragonSlayer> One of the strategies to use as a wolf, as you probably already know, is to frame other people. I should know, because I've been framed quite a few many times.
07:29:05: <BlackDragonSlayer> As Boy said (or at least I interpreted it as ), as long as the wolves are safe, they can wait as long as they want.
07:32:10: <BlackDragonSlayer> Why rush when you can have a strong strategy by waiting?
07:32:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> As long as... somebody... doesn't come along...
07:32:40: <BlackDragonSlayer> =K
07:32:43: <BlackDragonSlayer> Vampire
07:36:04: <fank009> BDS,
07:36:12: <fank009> Why has your opinion changed
07:36:16: <fank009> Day 1,
07:36:19: <fank009> you were like
07:36:33: <fank009> Ah, stop it guys, them wolves are gonna kill us all
07:36:36: <fank009> and now your like
07:36:45: <fank009> them wolves are crafty beggars
07:37:09: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because the circumstances have changed: what I know has changed. What the wolves (assuming you are wolves) are doing has most likely changed.
07:38:46: <fank009> ...
07:38:56: <fank009> this game...
07:38:57: <fank009> is one
07:39:02: <fank009> that is difficult to plan
07:39:09: <fank009> and idea
07:39:09: <fank009> and you are putting forward
07:39:15: <fank009> that requires a lot of planning
07:39:19: <fank009> yes, wolves can plan...
07:39:26: <BlackDragonSlayer> Precisely: it is difficult to plan. That is why plans change.
07:39:27: <fank009> but you cant predict what the humans are going to do.
07:39:33: <fank009> ^
07:39:34: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is why plans change.
07:39:37: <fank009> point there.
07:39:42: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is what I'm saying.
07:39:44: <fank009> But why sit and wait?
07:39:58: <fank009> for the "perfect opportunity"
07:40:01: <fank009> remember
07:40:11: <fank009> there are masons in this game...
07:40:11: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because, although it's not time efficient, it's safer and more reliable than clumsily slaughtering everybody, and running the risk of getting lynched.
07:40:16: <BlackDragonSlayer> Exactly.
07:40:17: <fank009> just imagine how powerful they are...
07:40:27: <BlackDragonSlayer> There are three wolves versus two masons.
07:40:27: <fank009> as soon as the masons start moving...
07:40:37: <BlackDragonSlayer> If one of those masons dies, the other can do practically nothing.
07:40:43: <fank009> a potential 3 wolves vs a potential 2 masons.
07:40:49: <fank009> ^he can lead the lynch
07:40:52: <fank009> lead a group
07:40:57: <fank009> of course twos better than one
07:41:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> But people are easily swayed otherwise. If there's only one masons, the wolves can set two of themselves up as masons, as an excuse why they've been "taking charge" throughout the game.
07:42:05: <fank009> ...
07:42:12: <fank009> what if a masons been wolfed???
07:42:21: <fank009> thats pretty incriminating evidence
07:42:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> That's the point.
07:42:29: <fank009> i know that if a masons been lynched...
07:42:34: <fank009> If a masons been wolfe
07:42:35: <fank009> d
07:42:40: <BlackDragonSlayer> If a mason has been wolfed, the humans won't know anything about it.
07:42:44: <fank009> it be suicide to claim mason for the wolves
07:42:49: <fank009> except the other mason
07:42:55: <BlackDragonSlayer> No.
07:43:02: <BlackDragonSlayer> Since nobody can prove they aren't masons.
07:43:07: <fank009> ...
07:43:17: <BlackDragonSlayer> Unless the masons told somebody else beforehand.
07:43:22: <fank009> isnt the wolfing evidence enough?
07:43:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> Rather, a few other people.
07:43:26: <BlackDragonSlayer> No.
07:43:32: <BlackDragonSlayer> It doesn't provide any evidence.
07:43:36: <fank009> ...
07:43:40: <BlackDragonSlayer> They can't verify that the person wolfed was a mason.
07:43:45: <fank009> a wolf can fake claim a dead partner.
07:43:48: <fank009> BDS...
07:43:52: <fank009> Why do you need 2 people...
07:43:55: <fank009> to squeal
07:43:59: <fank009>
07:44:05: <fank009> you are too paranoid
07:44:07: <BlackDragonSlayer> You're not making any sense...
07:44:12: <fank009> Me?
07:44:13: <BlackDragonSlayer> Logical, yes.
07:44:14: <fank009> what about you?
07:44:14: <BlackDragonSlayer>
07:44:32: <fank009> maybe im too trusting
07:44:43: <fank009> You can tell by the way people play the game
07:44:50: <fank009> wether they are lying or not.
07:44:50: <BlackDragonSlayer> If there's only one mason, they can't do anything to prove that they're a mason, unless they contacted several other people beforehand.
07:44:58: <fank009> ^
07:45:05: <fank009> and that would require testing someone.
07:45:12: <fank009> BDS,
07:45:22: <fank009> WHY cant a mason be cleared by their way of thought???
07:45:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> Hello Subthought.
07:45:27: <fank009> TST
07:45:32: <Subthought> Hi
07:45:38: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because it can't be verified.
07:45:41: <fank009> ...
07:45:45: <BlackDragonSlayer> The wolves can just as easily act as masons.
07:45:51: <fank009> yeah
07:45:59: <fank009> and do the ends justifiy the means?
07:46:04: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which is something you don't seem to understand, if I am comprehending what you're saying?
07:46:05: <fank009> If mashi claimed mason to me right now
07:46:09: <fank009> i would believe it.
07:46:17: <Subthought> Just logging on here to look at the what the conversation is, have to go now, be back in a bit
07:46:26: <fank009> because he has given me enough evidence that he's not a wolf.
07:46:27: <BlackDragonSlayer> But he would have to have somebody else to verify him.
07:46:31: <fank009> ...
07:46:34: <fank009> No he wouldnt
07:46:40: <fank009> How else do you win at final 3???
07:46:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> Then he could just as easily be a wolf.
07:46:47: <fank009> ...
07:46:48: <fank009> BDS
07:46:49: <BlackDragonSlayer> In that case.
07:46:50: <fank009> you really...
07:46:52: <fank009> need to learn
07:46:54: <BlackDragonSlayer> Which you don't seem to understand.
07:46:56: <fank009> how a wolf plays
07:47:02: <fank009> and how a human plays
07:47:06: <fank009> I dont understand?
07:47:07: <BlackDragonSlayer> ...
07:47:11: <fank009> you are talking to the guy
07:47:18: <fank009> who randomly admitted to 3 people...
07:47:23: <fank009> who were human last game...
07:47:28: <fank009> that he was daernyes
07:47:33: <fank009> the best role in the game.
07:47:45: <fank009> Do not tell me I dont know what im talking about.
07:47:52: <fank009> Its all about reads.
07:48:04: <fank009> you want another example?
07:48:09: <fank009> ill give you another example
07:48:11: <fank009> Verm,
07:48:11: <BlackDragonSlayer> That pretty much negates what you're saying about me being paranoid.
07:48:21: <fank009> ...
07:48:22: <BlackDragonSlayer> If you think about it.
07:48:27: <fank009> in what way...
07:48:32: <fank009> are you not paranoid?
07:48:49: <fank009> who says you werent paranoid?
07:49:15: <BlackDragonSlayer> It's sort of hard to explain...
07:49:19: <fank009> ...
07:49:25: <fank009> go on, explain it.
07:49:38: <BlackDragonSlayer> What you said about "reads" is sort of confusing me a bit.
07:49:39: <fank009> and you judge me? for things that are hard to explain?
07:49:48: <BlackDragonSlayer> Hold on, I'm thinking...
07:49:48: <fank009> you know...
07:49:48: <fank009> reads
07:50:00: <fank009> you want to know what my reads are?
07:50:05: <fank009> I have one guaranteed read
07:50:10: <fank009> and thats mashi's a human
07:50:20: <fank009> I was reading Dude to be a wolf as well
07:50:27: <BlackDragonSlayer> You say that I'm paranoid for judging people by facts filtered through my instincts (as I would say it), but you're essentially doing something similar.
07:50:29: <fank009> hence me pushing for his lynch.
07:50:52: <fank009> BDS,
07:51:00: <fank009> ^
07:51:05: <fank009> I agree to doing the same thing
07:51:20: <fank009> and im known to be paranoid at times.
07:51:21: <BlackDragonSlayer> If there's one definitive way to judge whether or not somebody is a wolf, then there wouldn't be any trouble finding the wolves.
07:51:32: <fank009> ...
07:51:39: <fank009> no
07:51:44: <BlackDragonSlayer> What you say as "reads" might not apply from person to person.
07:51:45: <fank009> it doesnt work like that.
07:51:48: <fank009> ^
07:51:50: <fank009> different reads
07:51:54: <fank009> for different people
07:52:02: <fank009> but im confident on my mashi read
07:52:05: <BlackDragonSlayer> Essentially, not all wolves act the same, and not always does the same person act the same way as a wolf... or even a human.
07:52:10: <fank009> ...
07:52:12: <fank009> ^
07:52:14: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'm not saying that you're not on your Mashi read.
07:52:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> *you're wrong
07:52:34: <fank009> you dont trust my reads?
07:52:37: <fank009> I admit
07:52:41: <fank009> they are wrong at times.
07:52:54: <BlackDragonSlayer> Especially if you are a wolf...
07:52:57: <fank009> this game is 80% guts, 20% luck.
07:53:00: <fank009> ...
07:53:02: <fank009> BDS
07:53:11: <fank009> *pokes all the kings men*
07:53:16: <fank009> your forgetting...
07:53:26: <BlackDragonSlayer> How paranoid I wasn't in that game.
07:53:31: <fank009> ...
07:53:35: <fank009> THIS IS NOT PARANOIA...
07:53:39: <fank009> this is me and my reads
07:53:51: <fank009> have a look at my reads...
07:54:06: <fank009> I only had one real non maf lean...
07:54:09: <fank009> and that was yugi
07:54:17: <fank009> (incorrect lean)
07:54:24: <fank009> here i am talking mafia terms...
07:54:29: <fank009> thank you for irking me BDS
07:55:07: <fank009> But yeah
07:55:12: <fank009> That game,
07:55:26: <fank009> I was pretty town sided on my leans...
07:55:31: <fank009> leaning for the lynches...
07:55:41: <fank009> and against those that are "typically human"
07:56:13: <fank009> Leans dont have to be "wrong" when you are a wolf.
07:56:18: <fank009> but they are more forced
07:56:28: <fank009> (unless you play like fank xD)
07:56:48: <fank009> typically it takes something significant to create a read.
07:56:55: <fank009> i.e. locking your doors
07:57:07: <fank009> well at the beginning, it looked humanish.
07:57:08: <BlackDragonSlayer> I haven't had much of a chance to demonstrate my wolf strategies...
07:57:13: <fank009> ...
07:57:23: <BlackDragonSlayer> Because both times I've been a wolf I died rather early...
07:57:24: <fank009> and that is a bad thing, why?
07:57:42: <fank009> Thats why you try create a gameplay you can play as both.
07:57:58: <fank009> given, i play differently according to my role.
07:57:59: <BlackDragonSlayer> It's more of a personal experience rather than relating to this game directly.
07:58:09: <fank009> now
07:58:10: <fank009> where was
07:58:11: <fank009> I
07:58:13: <fank009> oh yeah
07:58:17: <fank009> going through your posts.
08:01:25: <BlackDragonSlayer> I'll be back later tonight... I'll stay in the chat, though, so I can read what you have to say.
08:01:31: <BlackDragonSlayer> (not too much later, hopefully)

[close]

[Toby]

BDS, if I was a wolf I wouldn't outright vote for you and say I thought you were human. Plus no wolf would ever want to wolf you early on in game unless you were a special. You always get lynched because you're always paranoid! Wolves don't go around trying to lynch someone and then when that fails try and wolf them. Oh wait, a BDS wolf might.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Going over the important parts.

Lets not to mention, The failure to respond to this question...

Your post was about 8 minutes before the end of the phase. I responded, just a... bit late?

Let me ask two more Qs,
Do you always intend to get a wolf day 1???
Did you (at this time) intend on getting a wolf at all???

1: No, but you seemed to be making little or no effort to try and get a wolf at that point. That was slightly a question asking you how you expected your plan to work with, as I brought up later, so little margin for error.
2: I intended to get a wolf, yes, or at least to give my best effort to do so.

two things,
-You didnt know what i was intending at that point of time, what makes you the judge of what I plan to do??? (pokes mashi...)
-Again, as i stated earlier, Did you see my post? (which was aptly ignored :/ Mashi??? that human for you?)

1: I wasn't judging you on what you planned to do, since, obviously, I can't get into your mind (or can I? :3), but I was stating what you had done.
2: I assume you mean this post? If that is the case, as I mentioned here, I could not respond to it in a timely manner, and saw no reason to go back and respond to it aside from what I said in the post I linked to.

But, what kept you from opening them night 2?

I think I've already explained this several times... for the update time of one of the posts, davy accidentally put "PM" for the update time (for PST) instead of AM. I thought the phase ended later than it actually did; I intended to wait until morning to send in the message to open my door.

Here you made a statement that supposed (in my eyes,) that the wolves were laying low. Somewhat believable at the time of the post)

1st contradiction in the train of thought... Why would The young wolf put themself at more risk than the wolves???

I tend to speculate a lot in TWG. You act as if I have stated a definitive conclusion, but then changed it suddenly. As time goes on, more facts are revealed as the situation changes.

The things is, they're not putting themselves at any more risk, necessarily, unless they completely failed at making themselves seem like a believable human, in which case there would be little or no hope for them in the first place!

-Again, Stuff that you dont know 100%. WHY would wolves make the game last longer? it just gives a better chance to be lynched.
-"fank is too hard to understand" best argument for wolf ever. (you were spot on)

1: Because the safer option might be better than the quicker option, especially if/since the quicker option failed (essentially, unless they could destroy the humans in one fell swoop, the risk for them being lynched would be greater, something the quicker option might increase the risk of).
2: I don't recall saying that that necessarily made you seem more wolfish! It just makes it harder to respond to you!

-What if your misunderstanding (or ignoring) what im trying to say???
-Speculation is all right... But you dont really speculate, You just shoot down others plans. (which i explain in this post)

1: I was saying that you might have been misunderstanding what I was saying, not necessarily the other way around, although that still is possible.
2: To say that that is the only thing I do is a somewhat extreme generalization.

-You are the only person, widdling of these wild idea. No one else is giving the suggestions you are (not even me)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the underlined phrase.

FINALLY... He agrees with a fank post, AND CONTRADICTS HIMSELF
-WHY dont they take the opportunity to wolf someone? Especially in last nights position. Also... Wouldn't this clear a lot of people due to meta, Meta of not being able to think of such a plan (no offence to those types of guys) or are too aggresive to not take such an opportunity in their open arms?
You say the idea is to frame people...

I do believe this is an instance in which you aren't understanding me at all, since you seem to think that there is a contradiction. I see absolutely no contradiction, unless you wish to point out in specific detail how I was a drunken zombie when I made that post, and thus didn't know what I was talking about at all (I apologize for my sarcasm; I'm feeling really tired right now)!!

You seem to think that the wolves need to wolf somebody every night. If they don't, if provides the humans nothing to go on (unless of course, somebody tries to accuse the inactive/sequestered people of being the wolves), and more time in which to cement themselves and their plan. You yourself, if I am not mistaken, said that this was not an average game.
Assuming that Bird is a wolf, and everybody believes what he says about the people he is accusing, three lynches will be enough to drive the humans to the point where two wolfings could end the game, as demonstrated below:

Spoiler

This phase: Two people are lynched. Three wolves and six humans left.

Next day phase: One person is lynched. Three wolves and four humans left.

Next night phase: Two people are wolfed. Three wolves and three humans left.

[close]

And now, for the conclusion of the captivating discussion (I do say, quite ravishing for some):

You speculate too easily.

I speculate based on facts. I re-analyze things when more facts become present, as you have observed me do several times. Sticking with only one assumption when it becomes less likely to be true isn't always the best solution, and is actually rather close-minded and may even become a hindrance in certain situations; some people may consider this one of those situations.

BDS, Your list of 3 is a contradiction. I sent you a PM Day 2. That should have all the details. Just think for a moment.

If I have the correct PM, then it itself is a contradiction, if I am correctly understanding what you have said since then.

BDS, if I was a wolf I wouldn't outright vote for you and say I thought you were human. Plus no wolf would ever want to wolf you early on in game unless you were a special. You always get lynched because you're always paranoid! Wolves don't go around trying to lynch someone and then when that fails try and wolf them. Oh wait, a BDS wolf might.

1: Yes, that's my point about paranoid people lynching the paranoid one (a.k.a. me).
w: Don't try to demean me in such a manner.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

It seems as if I have made a slight error at the end of my post. It should be:
"1: Yes, that's my point about paranoid people lynching the paranoid one (a.k.a. me).
2: Don't try to demean me in such a manner."

Oh, silly "w"!!


Aaah, well, we shall see in the morning if people decide to trust me... if not... you can't blame me if your results don't turn out... errr... as expected??? (I do hope I don't just look like a babbling fool later )

[fank009]

Time for a counter argument, because i feel like it.

Your post was about 8 minutes before the end of the phase. I responded, just a... bit late?

eh, justifiable there.

1: No, but you seemed to be making little or no effort to try and get a wolf at that point. That was slightly a question asking you how you expected your plan to work with, as I brought up later, so little margin for error.
2: I intended to get a wolf, yes, or at least to give my best effort to do so.

-You expect me, to lynch with next to nothing??? (ho hum)
im not saying I cant do it, but you expect me to lynch correctly, with next to nothing???
-um... good luck with that.

1: I wasn't judging you on what you planned to do, since, obviously, I can't get into your mind (or can I? :3), but I was stating what you had done.

The same way that you intend to catch a wolf with your plan (e.g. magic *snort snort*)

Um... Thats not judging my plan???

I think I've already explained this several times... for the update time of one of the posts, davy accidentally put "PM" for the update time (for PST) instead of AM. I thought the phase ended later than it actually did; I intended to wait until morning to send in the message to open my door.

let me reword that, what made you decide to open them on the 11th hr???

I tend to speculate a lot in TWG. You act as if I have stated a definitive conclusion, but then changed it suddenly. As time goes on, more facts are revealed as the situation changes.

Not if you Re-negg on what you have said in the past... (I feel you have...)

The things is, they're not putting themselves at any more risk, necessarily, unless they completely failed at making themselves seem like a believable human, in which case there would be little or no hope for them in the first place!

Stupid Q... What makes a believable human??? (just wondering from your perspective)

1: Because the safer option might be better than the quicker option, especially if/since the quicker option failed (essentially, unless they could destroy the humans in one fell swoop, the risk for them being lynched would be greater, something the quicker option might increase the risk of).
2: I don't recall saying that that necessarily made you seem more wolfish!  It just makes it harder to respond to you!

Am I missing something here??? Unless im thinking of a wolf stratergy that the wolves havent yet... At this rate, It could take 50 days (real time) before they decide to wolf, And People like BDS will always cower to the safety of the closed doors (sorry, couldn't help it :/)
-This one, is another one of those, Things you dont know about.

2: To say that that is the only thing I do is a somewhat extreme generalization.

Thats what I feel that your doing, Magic word being feel.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the underlined phrase.

Find someone else doing what you are doing.

I do believe this is an instance in which you aren't understanding me at all, since you seem to think that there is a contradiction.  I see absolutely no contradiction, unless you wish to point out in specific detail how I was a drunken zombie when I made that post, and thus didn't know what I was talking about at all (I apologize for my sarcasm; I'm feeling really tired right now)!!

...
WHAT, I missed an opportunity to say "go home, your drunk" :/

You seem to think that the wolves need to wolf somebody every night. If they don't, if provides the humans nothing to go on (unless of course, somebody tries to accuse the inactive/sequestered people of being the wolves), and more time in which to cement themselves and their plan. You yourself, if I am not mistaken, said that this was not an average game.
Assuming that Bird is a wolf, and everybody believes what he says about the people he is accusing, three lynches will be enough to drive the humans to the point where two wolfings could end the game, as demonstrated below:

-No, I dont believe wolves HAVE to wolf each night. If i did, I believe this would lean to me being a wolf, and unless I'm the young wolf, (but if i was the young wolf, wouldnt day 1 be somewht of a contradiction to that statement???). Theres been no wolfings. so on that logic, fank is human.
-The thing is, Everyone's like Let them make the 1st move. Really? turn this into a game of chicken??? 1 (we lose some good players over inactive/poor players) 2, add to the boredom effect.
-Bird being a wolf... hmmm... he's done a lot of helpful things to the humans, he MUST be a wolf. Then again, You dont know the full story. (not that i can tell the full story :/)

Um, With your two wolfings theory, What makes you think they are in/will be in a position to make such a play?

If I have the correct PM, then it itself is a contradiction, if I am correctly understanding what you have said since then.

Correct, Doesnt mean it doesnt tell you information.

You good at logic puzzles BDS???

I speculate based on facts. I re-analyze things when more facts become present, as you have observed me do several times. Sticking with only one assumption when it becomes less likely to be true isn't always the best solution, and is actually rather close-minded and may even become a hindrance in certain situations; some people may consider this one of those situations.

Thats good to hear, Its good to keep an open mind, Just make sure it doesnt bite you in the butt.


Additional thoughts:
Maybe its my Naivety, But I Really dont understand. Wolves never want to drag this game on forever... As i stated above, the most popular suggestion is "lets wait for the wolves".  Ive stated my reasonings for not waiting for the wolves. We give the wolves a perfect opportunity, they will strike. The humans cant allow to sit idly while we wait for it to happen. I feel like some action needs to be taken. but eh Maybe its just me. What does a wolf gain, from letting Several people live another day???
Maybe we are all on the wrong track??? Somethings arent just making sense. We might as well lock our doors if we arent doing anything.

[davy]

TWG LV: The Choice is Doors

1. Wolf
2. Wolf
3. Young Wolf - Can't send in wolfings.
4. Mason - Knows the identity of the other mason and in which room he is at the start of the game.
5. Mason - Knows the identity of the other mason and in which room he is at the start of the game.
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

Wolves know eachother.

Rooms and Doors



There are 16 rooms in this game. At the start of the game, players are put into the rooms so that there is one player in each room, except for four rooms known as the Special Rooms.

Each room has four doors which connect them with other rooms. Rooms at the edge connect with rooms on the opposide edge, and rooms in the corner connect to the two non-opposite rooms in the corner (room 1, for example, connects with room 2, room 5, room 4 and room 13).

At the start of the game, all doors are closed, except for those of the inclosable room. Doors can only be opened and closed during the night phase, and only from inside the room the door belongs to. There are two doors between each room, one of them can only be opened and closed from one room, and the other one from the other room. Starting from night 4, each door that has been closed for at least two night phases in a row, will automatically be opened, and vice versa with exception of the doors of the inaccesable and inclosable rooms.

During the day phase, players can move to any room they wish, as long as the road to that room is not obstructed by doors.

At the start of the game, and at the end of each phase, players will recieve a PM telling them what rooms they can move to, and which players are in rooms they can reach and those in rooms connected to rooms they can reach. However, they will not recieve a PM if the situation is the same as the phase before that.
Example 1: It's the start of the game. davy is in room 6, Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 5, Liggy is in room 7 and BlackDragonSlayer is in room 10. davy will recieve the following PM:
You are in room 6. You cannot move to any other room. Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 5, Liggy is in room 7 and BlackDragonSlayer is in room 10.
Example 2: It's near the end of the game. davy is in room 6. The doors between room 6 and 7, 6 and 10, 7 and 11 and 10 and 11 are open. The doors between room 6 and 2, 6 and 5, 7 and 3, 7 and 8, 10 and 9, 10 and 14, 11 and 15 and 11 and 12 are closed. Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 8, Liggy is in room 7, BlackDragonSlayer is in room 1 and Bubbles is in room 15. davy will recieve the following PM:
You are in room 6. you can move to room 7, room 10 and room 11. Liggy is in room 7, Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 8 and Bubbles is in room 15. Room 3, 5, 9, 12 and 14 are empty.

Wolves will obtain a saparate PM at the end of each night phase telling them in which rooms their partners are.

Special Rooms

The four rooms that are not occupied by players at the start of the game are the special rooms: the empty room, the inaccesable room, the inclosable room and the warp room.

The empty room functions like a normal room, except that there is no player inside it at the start of the game, so there's no one who
can open its doors. The doors can however be opened by the system that starts working from night 4.

The inaccesable room has its doors closed at all times, even the system that starts working from night 4 can't open them.

The inclosable room is the only room that starts the game with all its doors open. Those doors can however not be closed by any player and can even not be closed by the system that starts working from night 4.

If the warp room is empty at the end of the night phase, 1 random player will warp to it.

Players will be told which rooms mentioned in their end of the night phase PM is a inaccesable, inclosable or warp room (if nothing is mentioned, none of these rooms are mentioned in the PM are inaccesable, inclosable or warp rooms).

Wolfings

Wolfings work differnt this game. Wolves can only wolf players that are in rooms that said wolf could reach last day phase. On the other hand, each wolf has a wolfing of his own, so it is possible that three players die during the same night phase.

Lynches

Like with wolfings, players can only lynch players that are in a room that said player can reach that day phase. Lynching votes are sent through PM rather than posted in the topic. Lynching will only occur when more than half of the players that could vote for the same player vote for the same player. Otherwise, there will just be no lynch. There could be multiple lynches each day phase because a player can be lynched in each set of rooms. Also, lynching is not obligatory in this game.

Semi-closed communication

This game features some sort of closed communication, which I like to call semi-closed communication. It means that you can only PM and have private chats with the host and players mentioned in your start of the game/end of the night PM. Also all information in your start of the game/end of the night PM, as well as information about your actions (wolfing, lynching, door opening/closing and moving) may only be shared through PM and private chat.

Order of action activating

Night phase: Wolfing>Door opening=Door closing
Day phase: Lynching>Moving>Warping

Phases

Because there are probably going to be a lot of phases this game and because there is less need to think about the lynch target, I have decided that both day and night phases will be 24 hours long. Also when all possible action PM's have been sent to me, or when each player that could still sent in an action PM has told me that he/she don't want to, I will end the phase early.


1. The Boy Who Cried Wolf
2. Mashi
3. BlackDragonSlayer
4. fank009
5. TheZeldaPianist275
6. Bird
7. Olimar12345
8. FireArrow
9. The_Subjective_Thought
10. Dude
11. Yugi
12. Wrydryn

Day 3 is over. No one died. All PM's have been sent. It's now Night 4. Night 4 ends July 4th 9:00AM PST/10:00AM MST/11:00AM CST/12:00PM EST/5:00PM GMT/6:00PM CET/July 5th 3:00AM AEST/5:00AM in New-Zealand.

[Mashi]

this is the worst

[Bird]

You guys are so awful!

davy, I think that forgetfulness and inactivity are hurting your game. In order to make it so lynches are more likely to happen, I think you should change it so that whoever has the most votes, regardless of it being more than half of the total, is lynched.

Also, we need to think this night phase through since a lot of doors are going to be slamming shit this phase. I think we should try to organize this so that Yugi and Wrydryn are lynched next phase. But unfortunately, I don't know who's doors have been opened/closed so far since nobody has told me anything.

I think everybody should share ALL OF THEIR PM INFORMATION with their most active neighbor, who will then post that information in the thread. This includes where you can move as well as what doors you've had opened and closed throughout the game. This way, we can collect all this information and see how the map has changed over time and how it will change again tonight.

We honestly should have done this yesterday. The best way to maintain the 2 network plan at this point would be to have everyone pile into two rooms. But whatever. I couldn't talk to anyone last phase. I can't talk to anyone this phase either, but we still need to make stuff happen. I'm sending my PM information to my neighbor now.

[Bird]

Also it looks like I'm going to be fucked for another phase, since if all my doors were open for nights 2 and 3, they're automatically going to close on night 4.

So that's just great.

I'd still like to help coordinate a plan and make a map of what doors are opening and closing tonight, so please PM your information to another player to post.

[FireArrow]

Birds Role PM:

Spoiler

Role PM: All doors closd. In Room 13. Olimar in 14, BDS in 1, FireArrow in 16.

End of Night 1: In Room 13. All doors open. Can move to rooms 4, 12, 15, 16. TST in 3, Wrydryn in 8, Dude in 12, Olimar in 14, fank in 15, FireArrow in 16. Room 3 is warp, room 4 is inclosable.

End of Night 2: In Room 13. All doors open. Can move to 3, 4, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. BDS in 1, Toby in 2, TST in 3, Yugi in 6, Mashi in 7, Wrydryn in 8, Olimar in 14, Fank in 15, FireArrow in 16. Room 3 is warp, room 4 is inclosable.

End of Night 3: In Room 13. All doors open. Cannot move anywhere. BDS in 1, Olimar in 14, FireArrow in 16.

[close]

I'll go send mine to you now. Yes, We need to somehow get someone lynched... I have a week before I have to leave, so this game better end by then.

[Bird]

Night 1: You are in room 16. Dude is in room 12, Bird is in room 13, fank009 is in room 15. Room 4 is inclosable.

Night 2: You are in room 16. You can move to room 2, room 3, room 4, room 7, room 13 room 15. BDS is in room 1, TBWCW is in room 2, The_Subjective_Thougt is in room 3, Yugi is in room 6, Mashi is in room 7, Wrydryn is in room 8, Bird is in room 13, Olimar is in room 14 and Fank is in room 15. Room 3 is a warp room. Room 4 is inclosable.

Night 3: You can move to room 15 and room 14. You cannot move to any other room. TBWCW is in room 2, The_Subjective_Thought is in room 3 which is also a warp room. Room 4 is inclosable, room 5 inaccesable. Wrydryn is in room 8, TZP is in room 10, Bird is in room 13, Olimar is in room 14 and fank is in room 15.

I feel like I'm missing one.