TWG LIII: All the King's Men

[FSM-Reapr]

Gzgregory's suggestion about sending in top suspicions by PM really couldn't be beneficial to the wolves in any way, which is quite a significant reason that I doubt he's a wolf.

Oooh, I completely forgot about that.

In my defense, it's 6 AM in here. q:

[FSM-Reapr]

Liggy, I really would like to see a suspicion list from you.

[fank009]

What happens when you check the forum every 2 hrs or so, You miss a period of discussion :/

Liggy, I hear you re: "meta"-ing, but there's been a tendency in the past for people to ascribe all of my "human" behaviour as wolfish cunning and my "wolfish" behaviour as my slipping up, which seems like predetermination and is kind of silly and annoying.

You cant get a bigger gambit than that, Prolly the main reason (im guessing) that thia was lynched :/

In his favor he's got the fact that he hasn't done his wolf "tell" yet.  I don't think this is enough to lynch him today though because, while it's weird, it isn't necessarily wolfy.

So, You have all these tell tale signs, But you are "Waiting" for that wolfy tell? If Bird hasnt "given" "his tell" yet, He prolly isnt going to give it at all. (unless he has the strength of a rock... Although everyone has his own tell.)
And I love how you state that Gzgregorys gameplay has been similar, if not identical to Birds.

Hey I didnt disappear :/ I'm just not sure what we're supposed to send to BDS and what to post in the thread

What should i write? No one from the scumteam is on to give me ideas xD

Voting for verm so I don't phantom out

Crouching tiger hidden...

Not much of a suspicion, but a slight...worry

TZP seems to be playing oddly. Hes bringing his real life into the game, but unlike Liggy or me (who only contributed their life since it prevented us from playing), he seems to be using it to brush off why hes not playing too hard:this entire post just sets something off in my head

TZP, If under the influence of sleep, Has made some really stupid posts if they were from a wolf.

The Mashi wolfing?  Out of everyone, he contributed information that was arguably the least important.  So why did they hit an inactive?

Unlike some, I actually think before I post.

I actually think it may be a good idea to say who has and hasn't claimed yet.  If anyone has any objections, voice them, but I think BDS should post the list.

I doubt you were thinking before that post... If you do "think before you post" you never would have asked for bds to give who has and hasnt claimed yet, Its A Wolf tell, Just like stating the obvious with the mashi lynch.
Wolves typically try not to make mistakes, A golden rule of mine, Wolves try to look humanish, There are no reasons for Humans to look "humanish". TZP is looking "scummy" And that is EXACTLY why he's a human...
Looking for 1 scummy thing in a sea of posts from someone, Is wolfish behaviour... (or really shallowness)

Sorry for not caring about the game this Day that much.

Dont worry, Everyone else hasnt :/

And for FSM:  This post.  The one where you say he's out of town and not able to defend himself.

Thats different to having "special circumstances"
More of an hinderance, Special circumstances, is more having a role

Oh god. I would have appreciated some more advance warning on that one. I'm not even sure what the case is against me at this point.

I somewhat agree, In private chat, Some people may be more persuasive than others, Talk in private =/= Talk in public, Wolves can always have "influence", Especially people "with affluenece", And especially since YOU make the decisions BDS...
3 people, Had Publicly asked for a verm lynch. I dont know what other people say to you, but there must have been some heavy influence behind the scenes

Liggy, I really would like to see a suspicion list from you.

Me too...


Just some thoughts, Ill put some more collected thoughts up as people post more :/

[Greg]

I actually got grounded, that's why my activity dropped off a cliff last phase. I'm only able to post from school currently so now that the week's started I should be able to post more.

In any case, I've just realized something. We really should have lynched wolf on Day 1. Waddle never had a chance to post a defense, and lynching wolf instead of simply allowing him to die would have basically pushed all of our lynches back a day, which gives us more time and information to work with. Also I don't think there was really strong evidence pointing to Waddle as a lynch candidate.

Now, the thing is, I feel like Bird would have noticed this. This kind of analytical ability is one of the main reasons that he's good at TWG. Also, he was in the chat when BDS asked if anyone had any objections to lynching Waddle, and he even said explicitly that he wished that Waddle posted a defense.

It's worth thinking about, in any case.

Thanks for the games, fank.

[Bubbles]

What should i write? No one from the scumteam is on to give me ideas xD

..Im not exactly an expert on these terms, but doesnt "scum" mean wolf?

Also Name change! Guess I cant call you Gz anymore

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Greg, I see what you're saying.  Wolf doesn't help at all, and the Waddle lynch was pretty hasty.  I agree Wolf would have been a better lynch.  There's still a possibility Waddle was a wolf, though, and wouldn't it have been better to find someone suspicious instead of taking out an inactive?  If Wolf was going to die, be it by lynch or modkill, why would we waste a crucial lynch on him?  You say it would have given us more time and information to work with.  The problem is, this is TWG.  We have, what, five-six (max) days with precious lynches.  We can't afford to sit back and take out an inactive just to wait for more info to present itself.

[Yugi]

In my defense:

I was a wolf in TWG 52, TWG 51, TWG 49, TWG 47, and TWG 46.  I died Night 1 in TWG 48 and I hosted TWG 50.  In other words, if you look at my most recent games for proof that I'm a wolf...of course you're going to find something.

Verm for new Manti.

[fank009]

there is a reason we couldnt lynch wolf d1, because there were at least 2
 other people also in that position (at the time) so lynching wolf (at that time) would be pointless.

[MaestroUGC]

The conspirators discovered the location of an entrenched battalion within their lines. Most of the men escaped, except for Private Ryan The Zelda Pianist.

Rebels:
Prince of Shadows – Master Wolf, the mastermind behind the movement.
2 Conspirators – 2 soldiers dedicated to the movement.
The King's Council – A traitor; if he is killed, one name of a conspirator will be announced (Prince of Shadow's name is last on the list for reveal). If he dies while in power then the lynching will revert to a Public Vote.

Humans:
The King – Our sovereign leader, if he dies power goes to the Prince. No Voting Power.
The Prince – Next in line for the throne, if both the King and Prince Die, the Charismatic Wolf assumes Power. No Voting Power.
Prime Minister – Has double voting power.
The Royal Guard – Guardian
8 Citizens – People loyal to the King

Players:
1. Black Dragon Slayer, Soldier - Corporal
2. Yugi, Officer - Captain
3. fank009, Soldier - Private
4. The Boy Who Cried Wolf, Clerk - Corporal KIA
5. FSM-Reapr, M.P. - Sergeant
6. The ZeldaPianist275, Soldier - Private KIA
7. gzgregory, Soldier - Sergeant
8. Dude, Clerk - Corporal
9. Bird, Pilot - Lieutenant
10. Waddle Bro, Officer - Lieutenant KIA
11. Bubbles, Cook - Sergeant
12. Mashi, Officer - Major KIA
13. wolf, Soldier - Private MIA
14. Vermilionvermin, Soldier - Corporal
15. Thiannon, Soldier - Private KIA
16. Liggy, Doctor - Major

Chatroom

It is now Day 3
Day 3 will end on Thurs. May 23rd at 11:00 PM CST
I work at nights so don't be alarmed if I miss the update time, the phase will still end as scheduled.

It's times like these where we need a leader who can really connect with his people. A leader with a smile on his face and a dream in his heart.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Interesting. I think the wolves played it safe with this wolfing. Then again, considering that I was a little bit suspicious of TZP (and a few other people as well??), it might not have exactly been so "safe."

(and this time, I promise that I won't lynch last-minute)

[BlackDragonSlayer]

As per Bird's request, a list of the lists I received:

Two From Bird

1. Thiannon - I covered most of this in the thread, but I feel like the reasons he's jumping all over me are pretty dumb. He's acting like the Waddle lynch was this huge mistake (it wasn't) that was my fault (it wasn't) and that I should have told you to watch out if the lynch got too much of a consensus (I did). It seems really weak, and isn't something I can recall him doing in a bunch of the games I've played with him. Definitely the player I suspect most to be a wolf.
2. Liggy - Also covered mostly in the thread.
3. Bubbles - A burst of anger then resuming inactivity. Maybe she's a wolf who thinks she's in the clear.
4. fank - Take this with a grain of salt since I never know what the guy is talking about. But I feel like most of his suspicions are bullshit (Yugi?) and it strikes me as odd that he acted super nooby in the beginning despite having epicmafia experience.

Well, I don't want to just leave you hanging like last time. I gave it some thought and spoke to a few people, and have redone my list. Just two this time.

1. Liggy - I feel more strongly about this than ever. Here's an excerpt from the log we had together.

(LOG REMOVED FOR SPACE)

Just pretty suspicious stuff.

2. Thiannon - Yeah, he's still up here. I'm actually surprised he relented so easily (although maybe he just did that in public and is whispering to lynch me into your ear!). It makes me wonder if he was a wolf worried about drawing too much heat. Regardless, that whole situation was really odd. The reason he's not #1 is that I think he had the upper hand in the argument when he relented!

I think those are both really solid choices, and wouldn't have regrets if you went for either of them. I sort of changed my mind about Bubbles. Fank is annoying but I think that's really the main reason I would want him lynched, and I'm letting up on GZG for now since I don't have a real case against him.

As far as humans go, I think Verm is really trustworthy. He's fooled me before, but I would be flabbergasted if he were a wolf in this game.

[close]

TZP

In no particular order:

1. Verm- His defense against my last-minute vote against him seemed a little....idk, forced.  And the heebie-jeebies comment, which I still have a problem with, even if he shrugged it off.  That's all I really have to go on him, but I know in the event that he's a wolf I probably won't have much more.  He's a good player.

2. SocialFox (or Yugi, but I like Social better)- Basically for the reasons everyone has stated before.  Tl;dr you say?  The quick edit on this post, the out of place prompts Verm mentioned, kind of bandwagoning, following (at least seemingly) Bird's plan without a second thought.  He'd be a strong lynch, I think.

3. Thiannon- Mainly his very strong-worded attack on Bird.  That seemed off, complete with words like "garbage" and "blather."  He's probably the weakest suspicion of these three.

Actually, I'll just give an order.  Most to least suspicious: Yugi, Verm, Thiannon.

[close]

Gzgregory

1. Dude - Dude's been notoriously unhelpful for the entire game, but it's gotten worse in the last phase. Normally he's sort of inactive, but right now he's posting a bunch of totally useless things ("post of substance"? really?). He's around to contribute but isn't. The wolfings also fit: Mashi's death seems like that of a wolf not paying attention since he wasn't really contributing much anyway.
2. Fank - Fank stays up here until I figure out what he's saying, and also because he's apparently trying to confuse us intentionally. Hopefully he posts a game so I can make a better evaluation.
3. Yugi - Yugi's said a couple of odd things this game, most recently his thing about "judging that all the dead players were humans". Worth looking into!

Also either Bird or Thiannon is going to be up here, I just don't know who I've sided with yet.

[close]

Bubbles

My top 3 suspicions: Yugi, TZP, and gzgregory

Yugi for that "slip up" (I mean really, I dont see how "judging" couldve fit into that sentence)

TZP seems to be playing oddly. Hes bringing his real life into the game, but unlike Liggy or me (who only contributed their life since it prevented us from playing), he seems to be using it to brush off why hes not playing too hard:

I honestly don't know what to make of you and Thiannon right now.  Mostly because I'm so tired; mountain biking was awesome though.  Tomorrow my thoughts may be clearer.

The Mashi wolfing?  Out of everyone, he contributed information that was arguably the least important.  So why did they hit an inactive?

...yeah, I'm sorry.  I got nothing right now.  Tomorrow.

this entire post just sets something off in my head

Gzgregory also seems to be playing oddly, but I cant actually find any proof xD go me

For the record I am slightly regretful about the Waddle lynch, but last time that happened he ended up being a wolf. Also Bird and Thiannon are both non-suspicious to me at this point, though I'm still a little wary of Thiannon for reasons in my suspicion list

[close]

Vermilionvermin

1.  Gzgregory:  I'm not convinced his response to yesterday's lynching in regards to Bubbles and Waddle Bro was legitimate.  He says he didn't suspect Waddle Bro because Waddle Bro "always plays like this".  FSM said that Waddle bro was out of town and unable to defend himself.  This is the out of the ordinary.  Additionally he says he suspects Bubbles for inactivity in the chat.  Bubbles was in that chat.  And at the first opportunity, he begins shifting back toward fank.

2.  Bird:  Almost certainly not a wolf with Gzgregory, but he's pretty suspicious in his own right.  As I explained in the topic, there's weirdness with encouraging me to stay with the Waddle lynch and switching so quickly from Bubbles to Gregory yesterday and the wolfings fit him.

3.  TZP:  Solely on here because of his connection to Bird and having done nothing to indicate he's human.

4.  Bubbles:  For disappearing again.

[close]

Thiannon

1. Bird
2. Bubbles (assuming she's not blue)
3. gzg

verm and I have been discussing things, and we agreed fank seems human. Tough to get a read on Liggy since he's barely posted. I'm guessing FSM is blue.

That's about it from me tonight, I think. I'm at work and there's (unexpectedly) a fair bit to do. Good luck!

[close]

I guess this could be considered one from fank??

Thoughts at the moment,
Possible wolf prospects
Yugi, - Reasons allready explained
Liggy, - Reasons allready explained
Verm- one who has fallen "into my trap", picked up a Being helpful vibe at the beginning, and have been feeling that vibe eversince

Unknowns
Bubbles- Nothing insightful
Dude,Nothing insightful
FSM- a combination of trollish and helpful posting, reminds me of something but i cant put my finger in it yet
Bird- going to need to read bird again, especially after the thia lynch
Waddle Not sure if trollin humans, trollin wolves , or just trollin
wolfNot sure if inactive, or wants to play xD

Humans
TZP- that "scum telling"
Gzgregory- that idea
ThiaThia in my opinion, plays a very... reckless game so to say... and wolves wouldnt be reckless as such, so thats why i have him as human.

Going to do some mass reading over the night (pun intended...) and when i wake up, i may have something more for ya.

[close]

Now gogogo and discuss some things!

[Yugi]

Reasons already explained?

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Good luck men.  You can do it.

[fank009]

Reasons already explained?

Some explained here others here, and others with messages to BDS,

The whole thought train on my suspicion on you yugi, is a combination of a) i dont know your playstyle, and b) I havent seen anything constructive from you, At all (yes, there are at least 2 other people with the same amount of input, but you are by far the most active). Maybe im missing all the times you are "actively" contributing.
And this is where (it seems like) my lack of experierence here, Isnt going to help people. Where i come from, Lack of "functionable" posts show scumtelling. (Where is the BS reasoning in that bird???)


Maybe I havent been "clear" on my leans...
This IS a different style of gameplay, And What better way to Misuse the idea of entrapment then "this style of play".
There is only one person (fmpov) who really needs a clear lean on my reads, and thats BDS.

2. Fank - Fank stays up here until I figure out what he's saying, and also because he's apparently trying to confuse us intentionally

I never know what the guy is talking about. But I feel like most of his suspicions are bullshit

-If you are having problems, understanding what im saying, WHY DONT YOU ASK FOR IT IN ENGLISH
If you dont ask, You wont get what you need answered. Who else is a better person to explain Fanks posts than the man himself. The reason why i havent "explained" myself is because no one has asked. (obviously not asked enough)

- Me confusing you intentionally? you a wolf bro? (well, need i answer that Q...) As stated before, Different gamestyle = different ways of playing = different ways of entrapment (to find wolves)
Fanks ways are Crazy but effective (in Fanks opinion)

-Me being noobish intentionally? can be answered With this.

Many a time, ive gotten Scum over small trivial things that really matter...
Im not 100% accurate, But considering the type of play i have, I can easily draw the wolves into a false sense of security.
And seeing this is a new crowd... With someone who doesnt know my tricks....

It was planned from day dot. BDS knew this.

I like how everyones pointing out flaws in me, but no one was bringing them up earlier
(like i said, Different ways to play, And i might STILL not be used to it yet, maybe thats the reason of them being no Q's to fank???)

And verm... You will get an answer from me in the morning, Good night.

[Greg]

Greg, I see what you're saying.  Wolf doesn't help at all, and the Waddle lynch was pretty hasty.  I agree Wolf would have been a better lynch.  There's still a possibility Waddle was a wolf, though, and wouldn't it have been better to find someone suspicious instead of taking out an inactive?  If Wolf was going to die, be it by lynch or modkill, why would we waste a crucial lynch on him?  You say it would have given us more time and information to work with.  The problem is, this is TWG.  We have, what, five-six (max) days with precious lynches.  We can't afford to sit back and take out an inactive just to wait for more info to present itself.

I'm going to respond to this even though TZP died because I guess the point wasn't clear enough.
We actually have one less day phase due to the fact that two people died during Day 1. Meaning we'd have the same number of meaningful lynches, but with more time.

Also, people who apparently didn't send in a suspicion list: Yugi, FSM, Dude, Liggy. Dude was already on top of my suspicion list and he still hasn't contributed anything, so...