TWG LII: The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya

[TWG Link]

Yes, but he has actually made better arguments, or rather ones that were more cohesive. Leaving him alive would've been far riskier than trying to convince Me or Luigi of the contrary.

Not necessarily, no: even before the screenshots were released, it would make little sense to wolf somebody whom I wanted to try and lynch earlier, and could probably get lynched rather easily (especially after the screenshots). If I were a wolf, and could "prove" that TWG Pikachu wasn't a wolf, it would make TWG Fox's intentions seem decidedly more... malicious...

And, if that didn't have a chance of working (especially because of the screenshots; although those were relased later, it's always good to have a plan b), I could always go after you alongside TWG Fox.

[TWG Link]

Also, now that I think of it:
My accusations of anybody else, aside from TWG Fox, would make little sense, unless I somehow knew about the screenshots beforehand, and could "turn the tables" against you, Bowser.
An accusation against Luigi would make 0% sense, especially with the wolfing of Fox.

[TWG Bowser]

Also, now that I think of it:
My accusations of anybody else, aside from TWG Fox, would make little sense, unless I somehow knew about the screenshots beforehand, and could "turn the tables" against you, Bowser.
An accusation against Luigi would make 0% sense, especially with the wolfing of Fox.

Obviously, those screenshots practically absolved Luigi of any guilt. And no, knowledge of those screenshots wouldn't have mattered, because you keep insistent on "how you could spin them". You had plenty of time to think of ways to do so, and seem to be going out of your way to prove just that. You even tried to disprove them after Fox posted them! It's quite obvious that they caught you off guard and now you're trying to backpedal your argument to make it seem like they haven't been a factor in your argument, even though you keep bringing them up.

[TWG Link]

Obviously, those screenshots practically absolved Luigi of any guilt. And no, knowledge of those screenshots wouldn't have mattered, because you keep insistent on "how you could spin them". You had plenty of time to think of ways to do so, and seem to be going out of your way to prove just that. You even tried to disprove them after Fox posted them! It's quite obvious that they caught you off guard and now you're trying to backpedal your argument to make it seem like they haven't been a factor in your argument, even though you keep bringing them up.

You're not making any sense, on a few major points:
1: Obvious, I didn't know about the screenshots, so it's rather obvious that they would catch me off guard!! If I were a wolf, though, there'd be no reason to reply to them until AFTER the update (when Fox would die, and thus be unable so say anything against me).
1a: Obviously, they are a factor in my argument NOW.
2: It wouldn't make any sense to wolf Fox, since then, I'd have nobody to direct my suspicions toward without seeming suspiciously "out of character."

[TWG Luigi]

So it seems that I have to decide the game.

Everybody other than me, make a list on reasons on why I should keep you alive and lynch the other.

[TWG Link]

O_O Our victory or defeat is in your hands Luigi.


Reasons why you should keep me alive:

• The wolfing of TWG Fox makes little sense as something for me to do, as I wanted to lynch Fox because of my suspicions towards him.
• Argument with TWG Falcon early in the game would be absolutely foolish and suicidal to do if I were a wolf.
• A variety of other actions that any wolf in their right mind would absolutely avoid.

Reasons why you should lynch Bowser:

• The wolfing of TWG Fox would be something Bowser could use to get me to lynch you, Luigi, before the screenshots, since I previously voted for you over Pikachu and Fox.
• Wild accusations against me that don't make sense unless I am a brainless, bumbling ZOMBIE.
• As an example of above: "To [the] most important tool a Wolf has is the guise of ignorance." And then, acting like he doesn't know what I'm talking about. Additionally, a variety of other actions throughout the game.
• Forgetting his vote on Day Four wouldn't matter to him if he already had a plan to win (and gives him another excuse to be online, if that matters).
• Until the later few phases of the day, hasn't done anything that would necessarily "scream suspicion" or draw unnecessary attention to himself, which would be something a wolf would want to do.

There are probably a few more reasons I'm forgetting...

[TWG Bowser]

The Merits of Lynching Link:

1. He argues that just because he wanted to lynch Fox means that it would be beyond reproach to wolf him as such. Under the guise of humanity, it would make sense for you to want to lynch another player, and to not have an idea of who you'd want to lynch at this point would only lead to your own. As people would see this as waiting for someone to place a vote and bandwagon.

2. He argued with just about anybody over minor details without actually trying to outright prove a point. His arguments weren't even all that helpful, as they went around in circles while the other players moved on and chose to focus on other matters. He also tried to prove that Samus, who even in hindsight was clearly a human, was a wolf in an attempt to throw us off.

3. He points out that his argument with Falcon was suicidal. I don't see how it was suicidal because a few other players already started to argue against him. Jumping on the bandwagon would've only helped you appear human.

4. His defense revolves around the fact that "his arguments are correct in his head", yet they don't. He makes leaps in logic and refused to objectively look at players who he deemed "suspicious." Namely Samus, who lynch was admittedly a misstep for us, but the entire time, and throughout the rest of the game, he kept trying to prove she was a wolf, in spite of everybody else believing that she was a human.

4. His partners were most likely Falcon and DK. He avoided voting for Falcon day one, and while he did vote for DK, it was clear that he was the most suspicious person at the time, and so as to not avoid blowing his humanity voted for him when the going got tough.

The Humanity of Bowser:

1. If I were a wolf and wanted to succeed with this lynch, it would've made far more sense to wolf you, Luigi. Fox and Link would've turned on each other in an instant and I would just need to vote to win. Link had a few options: 1. to not wolf somebody and just steer the chaos that it would spread. 2. to wolf me, then convince Fox that it was Luigi. 3. to wolf you, and convince me that it was Fox. 4. to wolf Fox and try to convince either me or you that the other person did it, which he's doing. Fox posting those screenshots however forced him to try and argue against me.

2. My arguments against Link are assuming he's a bumbling zombie, because either he wasn't paying attention while making the wolfings, or he's an absolute genius and planned out every step of the game. Based on his arguing skills, I'm assuming it's closer to the former.

3. I also say that Link made the wolfings because as we've seen, DK wasn't probably active enough to do so, and his other partner, Falcon, died day one.

4. I forgot to vote Day four, but I was going to vote for Luigi. I had made that perfectly clear. However at some point I had thought I had placed by vote but apparently did not. Regardless, this would've resulted in a KitB that would've only brought us here anyway. If I were a wolf why would I not vote, or if I wanted you to live then why not just vote for Pikachu, or anybody else for that matter.

5. Of course I wouldn't want to draw suspicion to myself. No player would ever want to do that. It's hard enough to stop being suspicious in most games, why on Earth would I willingly do something to make myself suspicious. Also, I did contribute a bit at the start, not as much as I did now but I mainly stayed in the chat room. It wasn't until the DK lynch that I felt I should speak up.

I have been nothing but candid and open throughout the whole game. There were times where I didn't agree with players but I at least sought out to talk to them and have them explain their side of the argument. When people asked me where my thoughts and suspicions lied I told them. Link, on the other hand, kept his suspicions to himself and when I did prod them about it, he gave four conflicting lists of wolf partners.

[TWG Link]

Responding to your accusations:
1. Your assumption is incorrect: all it would cause is for all suspicion to be directed at me, instead of somebody like Luigi or Fox.

2. This makes no sense at all. I always argue during games, but my points aren't usually of "little importance." The argument about TWG Samus is, in no way, a "distraction"; merely trying to figure out who the wolves are. Just because nobody believe me does not mean I'm wrong.

3. It doesn't matter if "a few other players already started to argue against him"; doing something like that as a wolf would only draw heaps of unnecessary attention to oneself.

4. "He makes leaps in logic and refused to objectively look at players who he deemed 'suspicious.'" They are not necessarily leaps; they are observances. And, no, not all of my decisions are non-objective. Additionally, I don't see how that makes me a wolf if I think.

5. Now, I could say the same with you about DK, now couldn't I? Your reason why I didn't vote for Falcon is, in itself, a leap in logic.

And... one more thing!! YOU say that it would've made sense four YOU to wolf Luigi, yet no sense for ME to wolf Luigi. If anything, there would've been less reasons for you to wolf Luigi than for I to, as wolfing Luigi could've been MORE beneficial than a Fox lynch.
As I said, if I were a wolf, it would've been better to stay quiet until the end of the phase and let you trip up over the screenshots, if I knew Fox was going to be wolfed that phase.

4. If I were a wolf why would I not vote, or if I wanted you to live then why not just vote for Pikachu, or anybody else for that matter.

Voting for Pikachu after your argument against Luigi would be an obviously wolfish action. It wasn't important for you to vote, so, you didn't. As you said, you'd still reach the same conclusion either way.

5. Of course I wouldn't want to draw suspicion to myself. No player would ever want to do that. It's hard enough to stop being suspicious in most games, why on Earth would I willingly do something to make myself suspicious. Also, I did contribute a bit at the start, not as much as I did now but I mainly stayed in the chat room. It wasn't until the DK lynch that I felt I should speak up.

Sooooo... why would I WANT to draw suspicion to myself if I were a wolf?? This point contradicts your point 3 against me.

[TWG Bowser]

1. Not necessarily. It'd be rather easy to have it done then to point fingers at someone claiming "I was framed."

2. We don't know if you always argue during games. And at any rate most of your arguments were biased. Just because nobody believes you doesn't mean you're right.

3. No it wouldn't, it would actually put you in the middle of the pack.

4. I'm not saying thinking makes you a wolf, I'm saying the conclusions you reached, and how, does.

5. You could, but I actually made an argument against him. You just voted for him after it looked as if he was going to be lynched.

The thing is, you did trip over the screen shots. You tried to disprove them almost immediately after he posted them. It would make sense for you to want to discredit Fox before he died as it would at least give you a stronger chance in the final vote.

If I had voted it would've been for Luigi, leading to an insta. I had no intention of voting for Pikachu, I made that perfectly clear. If I were the last wolf, it wouldn't have mattered who I voted for because it would've lead here. Why would I give myself a phantom and take that extra vote against me on purpose?

You said the argument made you look suspicious. I never did. I said it helped you to appear human. So no, I didn't contradict myself.

[TWG Link]

1: I'd have nobody to accuse, and would be vulnerable to accusation.

2: Even my actions for this game alone show that. "Biased" because I know what I'm talking about?? Also: Just because nobody believe me does not mean I'm wrong. And this is why I go in circles...

3: As you can see, it didn't do that.

4: The conclusions are reached by thinking. At the bare-minimum core of your argument, you're saying that thinking = wolf.

5:

It's HIGHLY unlikely that both TWG Falcon and TWG DK are wolves, since TWG DK is one of the people who got TWG Falcon lynched, if I am not mistaken. Since I don't believe that TWG Falcon is a wolf, I'm more inclined to believe that TWG DK is a wolf (and that is my vote).

But I do think, now, DK not posting the questions before TWG Waluigi died is either poor timing, or very suspicious.

There were two reasons why I waited to vote:
a: TWG Fox said to wait.
b: I wanted to hear what TWG DK had to say in defense.

The thing is, you did trip over the screen shots. You tried to disprove them almost immediately after he posted them. It would make sense for you to want to discredit Fox before he died as it would at least give you a stronger chance in the final vote.

1: I responded to them, not necessarily tripped over them. This is because I thought FOX WAS THE WOLF (all caps to emphasize).
2: "...it would've been better to stay quiet until the end of the phase and let you trip up over the screenshots, if I knew Fox was going to be wolfed that phase." If I were a wolf, I would have let YOU respond, so that YOU tripped up.

If I had voted it would've been for Luigi, leading to an insta. I had no intention of voting for Pikachu, I made that perfectly clear. If I were the last wolf, it wouldn't have mattered who I voted for because it would've lead here. Why would I give myself a phantom and take that extra vote against me on purpose?

1: It would've been a KitB, which wouldn't matter either way IF YOU WERE A WOLF. The underlined point proves what I'm saying; you said it yourself that it didn't matter!
2: I NEVER SAID THAT YOU INTEDED TO VOTE FOR PIKACHU. I was merely responding to you saying: " or if I wanted you to live then why not just vote for Pikachu."
3: Phantom /= Extra Vote

[TWG Link]

AND another thing!!

"Tripped up" would be to not have an argument against the screenshots. Because I was suspicious of TWG Fox, I thought that that might be a wolfish action (albeit risky for a late-game action) to try and push any suspicion away from himself.

[TWG Bowser]

1. Which is not the case, since you are clearly accusing me. You probably wolfed Fox to better frame Luigi, and lynching him would've been easy.

2. Biased because you made your decision and refused to consider alternatives before finally saying "Yes, she was a wolf."

3. The fact that you are suspicious now is because of what happened after that fact. At the time you were fine, but as the game dragged on you kept saying things to make you seem suspicious.

4. Again, it's your conclusions.

5a. Yeah, he did. And yet...
5b. And you voted for him well after he had a number of votes against him. It's not uncommon for wolves to lynch their partners to look human.

--

1. You responded to them because you needed to discredit them before they buried you.

2. Hindsight is 20/20. I didn't respond because had nothing to worry about, those screen shots only proved Luigi's innocence in the long run.

---

1. In the long run, it didn't matter if either Pikachu or Luigi died. What I'm saying is at the time I didn't know that, and as such my missed vote proved to be ultimately pointless, because if either Pikachu or Luigi was lynched, we still would've ended up here.

2. Because it would've been an insta and ended the phase sooner? Because if it wasn't Pikachu, then the last wolf would've been Luigi, as was the consensus between you, Fox, and myself at the time.

3. Right, I forgot they revised those rules.

AND another thing!!

"Tripped up" would be to not have an argument against the screenshots. Because I was suspicious of TWG Fox, I thought that that might be a wolfish action (albeit risky for a late-game action) to try and push any suspicion away from himself.

You wouldn't need to argue about them if you could disprove them. And why wouldn't he have tried to push suspicion away from himself, in fact his screen shots actually helped us more than anything else.

[TWG Link]

1: Because of TWG Fox's screenshots.

2: Because of my observations about TWG Samus.

3: That was one of many things.

4: Observations.  For example, you can assume now, because I am responding in short sentences, that I'm a bit rushed (which I am), or merely didn't think it was necessary to respond in length (also true to a certain extent).

5b: Because I felt as if TWG DK did not post an adequate defense. I voted for him after he seemed not to have any more to add.

--
1: They'd "bury" you as well.

2: I responded because I thought it was a potentially wolf-like action by Fox, since I was already suspicious of him. Originally, I trusted you more than Fox.

--
1: It wouldn't matter if you're a wolf either, since both would lead to the same conclusion, which is exactly what I've been saying.

2: It wouldn't make sense for you to vote for Pikachu when you had already given reasons why you were voting for Luigi.


I'm not even going to bother responding to the last paragraph, because IT does not make ANY sense whatsoever (and you people say I don't make sense?). Your paragraph does not answer anything I said, and doesn't even sound like it's in response to what I said...

[TWG Bowser]

1. So these screen shots have left us pointing fingers at each other.

2. Yes, but you had made a decision before she even started doing anything of notice.

3. My point still stands.

5. And because of this the smart thing to have done is to vote for him to save face.

--
1. True, but they didn't bother me.

2. Wolf-like, maybe, but a rather effective move at that point. The fact that he was vindicated speaks volumes about his intentions.

---
I believe we are arguing the same thing at this point.


If you can prove the evidence is wrong, then you have no need to about argue them; which is what you tried to do.

[TWG Luigi]

ahh why did i say that