Hosting and Balancing

[Greg]

TWG: Life After Death

Any powers that post are done through me unless mentioned otherwise. Also, players have no powers while alive(including the guardian) unless mentioned otherwise.

1. Master Wolf: After dying, can reveal a fake public seering of any player at the beginning of any phase through me. The master wolf chooses the colour. Can also post an anonymous post-death totem at any point.
2. Wolf Sniper: After dying, can instantly kill a player at any point.
3. Wolf Painter: After dying, can permanently paint a player any colour at any point.

4. Seer: Can seer while alive.
5. Guardian: Cannot guard while alive. After dying, he gets one chance to identify a live wolf during a night phase. If successful, the wolfing that phase is blocked. (The kill will be labeled as having been blocked, unless there was no kill that night.)
6. Human Totem: Can post an anonymous post-death totem at any point.
7. Phoenix: Can revive themselves for one phase after dying. During this phase they can speak normally, but they do not count for human numbers, they cannot vote, and they cannot send or receive private messages.
8. Human Private Totem: After dying, can send one player an anonymous private message containing whatever information they want. (Done through me, obviously.)
9. Other Seer: After dying, can reveal a public seering at the beginning of any phase.
10. Human Copycat: After dying, can pick any player (living or dead). Receives one use of their power. (If they pick the master wolf, they only get one of his powers (randomly chosen), and the public seering will not be fake).
11. Human Roleblocker: At any point (including after dying), can cancel one player's ability permanently. This fails on the Master Wolf.
12. Human Martyr: While alive, can sacrifice themself at the end of any phase to revive any other player. If that player has used their ability, they will get another use upon death. Fails if used on the Phoenix. If lynched/wolfed in the same phase as they use their ability, the other kill takes precedence.

None of the humans, except the Roleblocker, the Martyr, and the Seer know their identities before dying.

I might replace the Martyr with some human with no abilities, because I think the humans might be overpowered? What do you guys think?

[Mashi]

Hey, Liggy made a guide and I edited into the second post.

Read it!!!

It'll help those of you who are struggling to make compelling games, and will likely be beneficial to you as reference for creating them as well.

[Liggy]

Here's the guide in full, because at least one person confused it with the already written guides!

Spoiler

This guide was written by Liggy.

Game Design Guide

--------------------------

PART I: PREFACE
1. Why This Guide?

PART II: INFLUENCE
2. Designing for Influence
3. Freedom of Speech
4. Influence as a Mechanic
5. A Note on Conversions
6. Closing Notes on Influence

PART III: MECHANICS
7. Synergy
8. Minimizing Luck
9. Counter-play
10. Final Thoughts

PART I: PREFACE

1. Why This guide?

Currently on NSM, there are two fantastically written guides from two of the best hosts that I've seen.  They cover some pretty important stuff, too!  Without proper hosting, even the best designed game can fall flat, and a game that isn't balanced is very likely to be a game that isn't fun!  But one thing those two guides fail to mention is what makes a game fun.  Bird's guide touched on proper game design a bit, so it's likely that I may reiterate some ideas that he brought, but for the most part I'm going to be discussing things that were glossed over in previous guides, or expanding on unelaborated ideas brought up earlier.

In short, this guide will tell you how to take that neat idea you have floating around in your head, and tell you how to flesh it out into a TWG people actually would want to play.  It's not really going to mention the finer details of what makes a TWG balanced or what makes a good hosting job, but it's certainly going to help explain what exactly makes one game more interesting than another.

PART II: INFLUENCE

2. Designing for Influence

A good rule of thumb is the more power a player feels that they have in the game, the more enjoyable the game will be for them.  This makes sense; that's why everyone wants to be a special human or a wolf!  In these roles, it's obvious to see how a player's direct action influences the results of the game.  If you a kill a player as a wolf, you've already altered the course of the game, potentially in your favor!  By seering a player, you've narrowed down the list of possible wolves by that much more.  These actions make it clear to the player that they mattered.  If I wasn't in this game, the game would have a different outcome.

Got that?  Good.  Now for the tricky part.

Give every player this feeling of influence.

Historically, the major reason for inactivity is that the humans don't feel like they have a voice.  Inactive games tend to be uninteresting games, which means players are less likely to want to participate, and everything goes downhill from there.  The simple solution for this problem is to design your game such that every human feels like they have a voice.  This doesn't have to be very complicated; here's a fine example of a game that would work, typically referred to as a manhunt:

1. Wolf
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human

On the flip side, here's an example of a game that's not quite so good (and also unbalanced!):

1. Wolf
2. Seer
3. Guardian
4. Mason
5. Mason
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human

As special humans and wolf inherently have a good deal of influence, most of this section will be talking about how to insure that normal humans have influence.  Keep these examples in mind, because for the rest of the section, we'll be analyzing exactly what the first game did right and what the second game did wrong.

3. Freedom of Speech

By far, the easiest way to give humans the influence they need to feel important is to give them a voice.  This is a concept that I suspect most people understand, even if they don't consciously think about it while designing their games.  Unless there's some mechanic otherwise, every player in a TWG has one key way to express their opinion: their voice.  This leads to a good general rule; allow humans to express their voice.

Looking at the first game, it's obvious that everyone human has a vote.  No one human has more authority than another sheerly based of their role, and no one is preventing from posting or voting.  However, in the other game, this isn't entirely the case.  Everyone has the ability to vote and speak, but it's important to realize that, in this game, an alliance of the Seer, Guardian, and two Masons is likely to form.  The people in this alliance, due to their status as confirmed humans and ability to confirm other humans, make it so that they have much more authority than an unconfirmed human.  A normal human's suspicion is much less likely to encourage a seering or lynched than a Mason or seerings suspicion, so the voices of the normal humans are drowned out by the specials.  For a clearer example, consider this game:

1. Wolf
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Mute - Is unable to post, PM, or otherwise contact living players.  All votes must be done via PM.
7. Mute
8. Mute
9. Mute
10. Mute

Ah.  It's obvious here what the problem is; half of the game can't speak!  The game would be pretty dull for the 5 Mutes, even if they have the wolf figured out, they have no real way of expressing it.  They likely wouldn't even pay attention to the game at all!  Now granted, this was an extreme example, but it illustrates the importance of voice well.  If a player doesn't have a strong enough voice or feels like they don't have a strong enough voice, they'll have a lot of trouble remaining interested in the game.

This yields the question: how do you avoid drowning out the votes of the human?  Well, some ways include, but are certainly not limited to:

• Making special roles unreliable - If there's uncertainity in the results of a special role, then the special roles cease being the ultimate authority in everything.
• Making special roles able (and likely) to be fake claimed - See above.  If there's uncertainity in the claim, then special roles are no more likely to be trusted than a normal human.
• Preventing special roles from claiming in the first place - After all, if a special role can't publicly claim, they can't drown out anyone's voice.  Removing the guardian or adding a way for the wolves to bypass the guardian works for this.
• Removing humans - People are very good at shifting blame and spreading responsibility.  The more players who can step up and voice their opinions, the less likely it is for the average player to feel the need to.  This should be done carefully, as removing too many humans could unbalance the game in favor of the wolves.

4. Influence as a Mechanic

Giving voice is an important tool to give influence, but by no means is it the only way!  Have you considered...

• A game where everyone has a special power? (Post game)
• A game where the humans vote on the power usages? (Post game)
• A game where players themselves can change the mechanics? (Post game)
• A game where randomly chosen players have the power to kill? (Post game)
• A game where humans get randomly distributed items? (Post game)

Some of these games turned out well, others not so much.  The outcome of these games is less important than the concept driving them: every player has roughly the same influence over how the game occurs.  Giving humans influence through the mechanics could be as simple as giving the humans something else to vote on besides lynches or giving every human a single-use power!  There's a lot of creativity to be had at there, see what works and see what doesn't!

5. A Note on Conversions

Conversions can be fine, but a major problem with them is that, when used incorrectly, they take a way a player's influence on the game.  When you add a conversion mechanic to your game, players suddenly have to realize that the team they may end up playing for at the end may not be the team they are playing for right now.  If they don't have the ability to control their conversion, then the amount of influence a player feels he has is diminished.  They may have the ability to win the game for the team they are in, or help them in their victory, but they wouldn't know if that would ultimately help them win.  Uncontrollable conversions leave a player feeling powerless, which goes against everything you've done as a host to prevent that.

6. Closing Notes on Influence

If there's only one thing you take a way from this guide, it's what's been said about influence.  The stuff that'll be covered in the next section can turn a good game into a great game, but without the proper distribution of influence, a game will probably fall flat.  Influence isn't too hard to use correctly.  It's as simple as asking "Does any one role exert too much authority?"  If the answer is yes, consider redesigning the game so that normal humans have a larger say in the mechanics.

PART III: MECHANICS

7. Synergy

Synergy is what turns an unconnected mess of powers and roles into an enjoyable, coherent game.  In short, it's the "wow-factor" present in most good games.  Synergy helps to make the game more interesting because it adds depth to the mechanics; instead of each role doing their own thing, they can all interact and influence each other.  Bird's guide covers this part pretty well, but it's certainly important to at least bring it up again.

8. Minimizing Luck

Losing because of bad luck is no fun, and no TWG is going to be able to completely eliminate luck.  Sometimes, players take a shot in the dark and lynch a wolf, or correctly suspect a player for all the wrong reasons!  In certain situations, however, you can minimize the effect of luck with the use of clever mechanics.  As an example, take the following game:

1. Master Wolf
2. Wolf
3. Wolf

4. Vigi
5. Seer
6. Guardian

7. Miller - Is told he's human.
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

There's lots of things that can go wrong here!  What if the Master Wolf is someone who usually gets lynched?  What if the Vigi kills the Seer or Guardian randomly Night 1?  What if the Miller is incredibly suspicious for some reason?  What if the Miller is someone who never gets seered?  These are things that there's either no control or little control over, and all of them can affect the balance and enjoyability of the game!  But some of these things can be changed.  If you let the wolves choose the Master Wolf and Miller Night 1, and change the Vigi's role a bit, suddenly it becomes...

1. Wolf - On Night 1, all the wolves collectively choose one wolf player and one human player.  The wolf becomes permanently seered green and the human becomes permanently seered red.
2. Wolf
3. Wolf

4. Poisoner - Poisons a player each night.  Can choose to administer the antidote to that player during the day phase.  If he does not, the poisoned player dies at the end of Day.
5. Seer
6. Guardian

7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

...less luck-based!  If the Master Wolf and Miller end up being given to players they are useless on, that's the fault of the wolves.  If the Vigi/Poisoner targets a vital human at night, that person has the chance to speak up and save themselves before being killed unneccesarily.  Of course, it should be noted that even in this game there's still some luck involved.  The wolves could end up wasting their red power on a special human, or the Guardian could be wolfed Night 1.

However, it's important to realize that balance should not be lost while trying to minimize luck.  In this game, for example, you shouldn't see the Guardian potentially dying Night 1 as something to fix.  You could make the Guardian immune to wolfings, or at least the first night's wolfing, but suddenly you're introducing invincible humans, and that completely changes the game!  Luck is a tricky thing, and it's not all bad.  Powers that have a certain chance of working, such as unreliable Seers or Item Forgers, can work well in certain circumstances.  Changing it so that the Seering works every other Night or that each Item comes with a "cooldown" may seem like it fixes the luck issue, but all it really does is just make the powers more predictable.

9. Counter-Play

Counter-play is an interesting concept, and one that I don't really see discussed in terms of TWG very often.  In essence, counter-play is how powers given to one team affects the other.  In my two examples from this section, the first game doesn't have very interesting counter-play.  The Wolves have very few powers to directly influence the human team, while the only power that really influences the wolves is the Seer.  The Wolves will play more cautiously, because if they stand out they'll be seered.

On the other hand, the second game has much more interesting counter-play.  By allowing the Wolves to choose the Master Wolf and Miller, the humans can start analyzing these choices.  If a player is Seer, discussion would likely occur as to whether that player is likely to be picked by the wolves to have their color changed.  By including this mechanic, there's a much stronger and more existing argument than "Well, he might be the Master Wolf."  The Wolves have some interesting new counter-play opportunities as well!  By switiching the Vigi to the Poisoner, the Wolves have the ability to weasel their way out of a would-be fatal situation.  By including these counter-play options, the game becomes interesting for both sides, as both have more things to take into consideration, and more strategies to try out.

10. Final Thoughts

Really, the same advice from the other two guides applies here as well!  Look at other games!  What games did you or other people enjoy more?  Why?  What parts of those games do you think it would be better without?  Apply these questions to your own games as well!  What parts can you improve?  Where do you think most of the excitement will lie?  Who will feel like they have the most influence?  By asking these questions, you're forcing yourself to consider how all the mechanics of your game work as a whole, and how each of those mechanics work for or against the elements I've discussed.

Finally, if this stuff interests you, I'd like to recommend a show called Extra Credits.  It deals primarily with video game design, but I tend to find some of the ideas they bring about are applicable to other games as well, TWG included, and some of the ideas I've brought up in this guide are modified from some of theirs.  It certainly has a large backlog, but if you care about either video games in general or game design in general, it's worth checking out.  They also did a mini-series on a Roman History, which is cool too!  But I digress.

[close]

[Waddle Bro]

Liggy 4 TWC

[Toby]

Here's the guide in full, because at least one person confused it with the already written guides!

who

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Liggy 4 TWC

No no no no Waddle!

...TWC + Liggy

[Bird]

posting here to say that liggy's guide is A++ legit yo

[Yugi]

TWG [Number Holder]: Is this a TWG?

1. Spy
2. Spy
3. Spy

4. Agent
5. Agent
6. Agent
7. Agent
8. Agent
9. Agent
10. Agent

You are part of an underground organisation, trying to take down a nefarious government, which is responsible for the massacre of millions of people, each day, at least three people are nominated for a mission, which is carried out at night, these include assassinating officials, breaking people out of prison, and holding press rallies. However, recent missions have not gone to plan, either due to the target knowing about the assassination attempt, or there being a sudden increase in security the day of the breakout. People have been suspecting that the government have placed spies in the organisation, but others have been dismissing it as nonsense. The Higher Ups of the organisation are making sure though, and have hired agents to investigate.

Your mission is to find and flush out the spies in the organisation.

How this game works:
Every Day (Day 1 comes before Night 1 this game); a player (chosen at random) is picked to lead a mission, which will be carried out the following night phase. When the time comes for the mission to be carried out, every player involved in the mission receives a PM, with two cards, one red, one black, everyone who got the PM must respond to the PM with either the red or black card.

When Night Ends, I post the results of the mission in the thread. If everyone PM'd me a black card, then the mission is considered a success, if someone PM'd me a red card, then the mission is considered sabotaged.


Win Conditions:
Agents: Have 3 Missions considered a success.
Spies: Sabotage 3 missions.

[Toby]

Where did you find this TWG?

[Bird]

TWGGGGGGG

1. Do the spies know each other?
2. Do players die/get lynched in this game?
3. Can spies lead missions?
4. What's stopping people from recycling the members of a successful mission in later missions?

[Liggy]

Furthermore, is this really even a TWG?  It seems like an interesting idea for a game, just not really TWG.  There's no lynchings or wolfings, correct?

[Yugi]

1. Do the spies know each other?
2. Do players die/get lynched in this game?
3. Can spies lead missions?
4. What's stopping people from recycling the members of a successful mission in later missions?

Yes
No
Yes
Spies may have picked black in earlier missions.

[Yugi]

http://www.llforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3504&start=300#p249832

I'M TOO LASY TO POST THE GAME OVER HERE SO WHATever

[mikey]

TWG Number:
Classic Mafia

1. Mafia
2. Mafia
3. Villager
4. Villager
5. Villager
6. Villager
7. Villager
8. Villager
9. Villager
10. Framed Villager
11. Doctor
12. Detective

For newer players who may want to learn the basic concepts of TWG without confusing extra stuff, with veteran players who would like to give tips
Mafia=wolves
Villager=humans
Framed Villager=miller
Doctor=Guardian
Detective=seer

[BlackDragonSlayer]

TWG: Willy Wonka's Factory of Horrors:

Charlie stood in the amazing glass elevator, watching the scenery around him. He could see his house, his school, and the entire town all around him! Just then, they were passing over a lake.

Mr. Wonka spoke: "Charlie, don't forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted."

Charlie responded: "What happened?"

A grin came across Mr. Wonka's face. "He died." His hand reached out towards Charlie, as his grin got even wider, and wider...

"Grandpa!" Charlie yelled. He leaped toward his grandfather, Joe; he tackled him, and the two smashed the glass, falling down and down to the lake. Charlie tried to grab his hand, but he couldn't, and the two flew apart. Then Charlie splashed into the lake, quickly trying to swim to shore. He saw his grandfather near the shore, in shallow water. He wasn't moving.

"Grandpa!"

"Charlie... Charlie..." he gasped, "you must... escape... he will come looking... for you!" Then he died.

Wonka's Minions; Wolves:
1. Willy Wonka: Charismatic wolf. In this game, players may not vote for themselves. May choose to sacrifice his charismatic ability (and instead, be seered green) for a phase.
2. Oompa Loompa Captain: May seer one person each night.
3. Corpse of Augustus Gloop: May visit a person each night and attempt to kill them, negating their power usage for the phase (cannot be used on Charlie; if used on the miller, they are seered green for the night). If used on a normal human, their vote for the Day Phase counts as 0. If used on the Charismatic, their vote counts as 1.

Townspeople; Humans:
4. Charlie Bucket: At the beginning of the game, his identity is revealed to the public; however, he may not be killed at all until his family has died. Knows who his family is. Because his capture is valuable to Wonka, he counts for victory conditions as two people.
5. Charlie's Family: Has a one-use vigi. If they are targeted by the Corpse of Augustus Gloop, the vigi will not go through (but they will still be able to use it later).
6. Interpol Agent: May seer one person each night.
7. Townsperson: Normal Human
8. Townsperson: Normal Human
9. Townsperson: Normal Human
10. Townsperson: Normal Human
11. Candyman: Charismatic. Doesn't know his identity.
12. Mr. Wilkinson: An Interpol spy who infiltrated Wonka's factory; because he was pretending to be loyal to him, not everybody trusts him.