Help with ear training

[Ricky]

Basically I'm trying to figure what's the next step in my ear training practice should be. Several years ago I've practiced some ear training and pretty much managed to learn recognizing intervals. About a year ago however I've decided to start practicing ear training daily and that's what I've been doing almost everyday. About a year ago I've also started a yearly subscription at Theta Music Trainer which is a very nice site with lots of ear training games. Either way I've been practicing ear training in many different ways, for example with short melodic segments, rhythm, chord progressions and even perfect pitch (through a method called Pitch Paths, I haven't gotten good enough at it yet) etc. A few weeks ago I've found a site called Melody A Day where you can find Finale files with hidden melodies but with starting points (such as key signatures, time signatures, starting tones) etc. given. I've worked through all the melodies in the lesson plan (http://www.calpoly.edu/~lfose/mad/MAD_Weekly_Assignments.pdf) and I have improved my melodic dictation skill alot.
Just a few days I've decided to give a try to transcribe this video game music piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoSo3pfF7NE . I've managed to figure out the structure and some other basics but most of it (especially all the different kinds of drums you can hear) is hard for me to write down by ear. My original plan was to start working on transcribing video game music while working on learning instrumentation/orchestration theory (I've recently started doing exercises in the book "Instrumentation and Orchestration"). My main goal in ear training is to get a very good ear in order to be able to write down musical ideas from my head which ofc means I also should be able to use my ear to write down pieces that have already been written (such as different kinds of video game music).

I however want to hear some tips from you guys as you are much more experienced with transcription of music and have probably been in some kind of similar situation (i.e. maybe been able to write down melodies but having trouble writing down more of the details). So what should I do? Should I continue with the piece and try to figure things out even if it will take lots of time? Should I take a break and work on some other (maybe easier) video game music piece? I play piano so maybe transcribing piano music (without focusing on the instrumentation) is the right step for now? Any ideas for pieces to transcribe as a start (the whole package, not just the melody, as long as it's not pop/rock etc. it's fine (i.e. I only want to work with folk, classical, video game, film/TV music))?

[Olimar12345]

You can start anywhere you want! Have a song stuck in your head? Perfect, write it down!

As for tips, I'd say to first write it down, then take it to a piano and check for accuracy.

[JDMEK5]

After you have perfect pitch, practice is all that will make you better. Theory helps, but I'm sorta assuming you already have that.

[Olimar12345]

After you have perfect pitch, practice is all that will make you better. Theory helps, but I'm sorta assuming you already have that.

*Relative Pitch. Perfect pitch cannot be obtained, only relative pitch can be learned.

[JDMEK5]

Right. Ok then. Relative pitch.

[Ricky]

I don't want this to end up with a discussion of whether or not perfect pitch can be learnt (personally I believe it can). I do indeed know plenty of music theory but there's alot more to learn. I don't think that's the issue. The thing is that I think I need to practice ear training with real pieces and not just exercises or melodies. I need to improve in writing down each voice, finding the correct instrumentation etc. Ofc general improvement in melodic dictation is desirable. The faster I can write something down by ear the better obviously. Musical ideas come and go quickly.

So, I should just work on whatever piece I want instead of trying to come up with a plan with gradually increasing difficulty?

[Olimar12345]

(personally I believe it can).

It can't. That's a fact. You're either born with it, or not. Relative pitch is what can be learned, and imo is far greater a tool to have.

Now...

So, I should just work on whatever piece I want instead of trying to come up with a plan with gradually increasing difficulty?

Definitely that first option. It will keep you going.

[JDMEK5]

If you work with stuff you don't enjoy, you'll get bored and/or discouraged.
Do one you like, and if it's too hard, push it aside and go to an easier one (if you feel you need to) until you get better.
You can always try the first one again if you feel you're ready.

EDIT: I'm not trying to stray from the topic here, but I'm curious: What is the difference between perfect pitch and relative pitch?

[Olimar12345]

Someone who has perfect pitch(or Absolute pitch) can recognize pitches effortlessly without an external referenece, and with no prior training or real knowledge of music. For example, I could ask someone with perfect pitch to sing an Ab and they could hit it dead on in an instant. People with perfect pitch can get irritated if say a piano was slightly out of tune, or if an entire ensemble is a few cents sharp. Everyone I know with perfect pitch has a hard time singing solfege with a movable Do, just because they hear "C" as "Do". (some were struggling so much that they had to write in the sylables for every note!)

Now relative pitch works the same way-kind of. Relative pitch is basically just training your ear to identify pitches and intervals, thus yielding similar results. For example, lets say you're a trumpet player in band. Let's also say that as a part of your daily warm-up routine, you play through the remington exercise. The more you rehearse, the more you'll hear where F is. Once you can memorize one pitch flawlessly, its just a matter of memorizing the intervals and applying them. Say I play an Ab. If you can hear that F and recognize that it's a minor third away, you'll be able to identify that Ab without me telling you what it was.

[JDMEK5]

Right so it's relative pitch I have. I originally was sorta hoping I had perfect pitch, but the way you described it, it sounds a bit irritating.

[Olimar12345]

but the way you described it, it sounds a bit irritating.

Exactly. lol.

[Ricky]

So what you're saying is that you can have so good relative pitch that you can recognize the correct pitches without reference in the first place (i.e. you have memorized the sounds of a few pitches (and relate others to them) or all pitches (at least chromatic ones) and can thus name them)? Then what is the difference between that and perfect pitch? Also, those that seem to have been born with perfect pitch or whatever have probably just learnt it when very young. It's just memory in the end.

I've been using the Pitch Paths method for perfect pitch and I'm able to recognize all the pitches in the tests given in the method (which means pretty much listening a single pitch at the time, naming it and waiting for the answer). However, it works well mostly for the specific sounds. Changed timbre, octave or in the context of melodies etc. ofc makes things harder (and I get tones wrong more often). However I believe it is a matter of practice with different kind of timbres and octaves to generalize it so to speak. I guess by your definition that would still be some kind of good relative pitch.

[Olimar12345]

So what you're saying is that you can have so good relative pitch that you can recognize the correct pitches without reference in the first place (i.e. you have memorized the sounds of a few pitches (and relate others to them) or all pitches (at least chromatic ones) and can thus name them)? Then what is the difference between that and perfect pitch?

Being born with it and having perfect accuracy with no training.

I've been using the Pitch Paths method for perfect pitch and I'm able to recognize all the pitches in the tests given in the method (which means pretty much listening a single pitch at the time, naming it and waiting for the answer). However, it works well mostly for the specific sounds. Changed timbre, octave or in the context of melodies etc. ofc makes things harder (and I get tones wrong more often). However I believe it is a matter of practice with different kind of timbres and octaves to generalize it so to speak. I guess by your definition that would still be some kind of good relative pitch.

In my opinion, that would be the wrong way to go about it. Or not so much the wrong way, just more of a time-consuming way of doing it. Like I said, it's not necessary to memorize EVERY pitch-just one or two, then study intervals and chords. That's the way I was taught and I'm fairly accurate(sometimes off by a half-step). Different timbres and octaves shouldn't be tripping you up, though. I've never heard of that problem in ear training...

[JDMEK5]

I personally don't like recognizing notes by intervals. I'd rather find the individual notes irrelative to the others.
But there are no ways around it if you're working with chords.

[Ricky]

Being born with it and having perfect accuracy with no training.

Well, what you call born with it I call learnt when very young which is probably more true. Either way you're basically saying that you can get that ability through practice but you don't call it perfect pitch because it takes effort to learn. Also, I don't think even those that were "born" with perfect pitch all have the same degree of it. For example some maybe can recognize single pitches at the time, others several pitches, some can hear how much out of tune a pitch is while others can't, some can estimate the pitches of random sounds while others can't. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, like I said, it's a matter of generalisation to other sounds and timbres and octaves or maybe just improving the pitch recognition in general by more practice on one timbre. Anyways, yes, using some kind of reference tones and relative pitch for other tones could also work but I'm not sure how I would practice that.