Pokemon Showdown!

[mikey]

Smogon tiers are a joke

And so is their simulator, doesn't even have a timer

[FireArrow]

And so is their simulator, doesn't even have a timer

but it does

[Dekkadeci]

but it does

You're forced to trigger it every time you play a game there. It doesn't trigger by default.

[mikey]

I mean a match timer
that one is pathetic

[mastersuperfan]

I've always enjoyed playing Smogon... except when I'm playing in OU, that is.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I can't remember the last time I saw a purely defensive Pokemon get banned from OU (Aegislash doesn't count, nor does Deoxys-D). They* have a stall fetish or something.
*(obviously not everyone on the website, but "them" in general, as a whole)

On a similar note, I'd love to see what would happen if we could use five moves instead of four. I would definitely like to see how that affects the metagame, as there are a ton of good offensive Pokemon brought down by "four moveslot symdrome," and since good coverage is one of the banes of stall (can't switch into something if you're just going to take massive damage from it anyway next turn).

[Dekkadeci]

On a similar note, I'd love to see what would happen if we could use five moves instead of four. I would definitely like to see how that affects the metagame, as there are a ton of good offensive Pokemon brought down by "four moveslot symdrome," and since good coverage is one of the banes of stall (can't switch into something if you're just going to take massive damage from it anyway next turn).

(I've been checking out Smogon's Other Metagames lately.)

Try Ultimate Z in Smogon's Other Metagames. One of the best features I've found in it is how Pokemon suddenly get terrible cases of five-moveslot syndrome there. It's got other features such as Z-Haze and Z-Psych Up suddenly being terrifying full heals for stall and just plain defensive mons alike, and utter freaking nukes for STAB or coverage-that-used-to-be-Hidden Power.
You can play it in Dragon Heaven (although you will have to hit up chat for anyone else who's available to play it, and the bot, BatterBotto, has a terrible Ultimate Z team, plays with it horribly, and isn't online all the time).

The sample sets in the Ultimate Z OP are barely scratching the surface--here are some sets I've seen on replays that work along with some sets I've made up that I like:

Jirachi @ Groundium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Refresh
- Celebrate

Dear lord, the role compression you can get in this metagame. Stealth Rock setting, stat boosting, full healing, self-cleric, and sweeping all at once! And that flinch hax...

Manaphy @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Heal Bell
- Psychic / Energy Ball

Manaphy still wishes it had Ice Beam back--that's what I mean by five-moveslot syndrome. Nevertheless, being able to full heal without Rest makes this guy able to set up on a lot more. Psychic appears to be the two-move old standby, but Energy Ball hits most of the Water Absorb guys super-effectively and still hits Volcanion for neutral.

Clefable @ Groundium Z
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psych Up
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Don't let this defensive rock-setting Clefable copy your boosts.

Greninja @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Spite
- Low Kick
- U-turn

...Don't ask how Greninja can set up Spikes against strong neutral physical attacks, but now it can, then run the heck out. If you direly need priority in this slot, you can use Fightinium Z for the item and Shadow Sneak instead of Low Kick.

Swampert @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Refresh
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Earthquake

I predict pseudo-hazing will be big in this meta. And Swampert finally gets a full heal! Shame I don't have much time to play against anyone else...
...Oh, and this Swampert wishes it got Scald back. Shame Scald hits like a pansy...

Raichu-Alola @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Surf
- Volt Switch

Signature Z-Crystals can't be applied to anything other than signature moves in this meta, but Stoked Sparksurfer spam lets this guy hax through opponents it honestly should not beat. Surf compresses Focus Blast and Grass Knot's roles admirably.

Klefki @ Fairium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Psych Up
- Swagger
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play

I've been getting good results with SwagPlay in this meta. Prankster SwagPlay's biggest problems in OU are Dark-types (not such a big problem after this Klefki presses Twinkle Tackle), Psychic Terrain from Tapu Lele (OK, this will need team support, as this Klefki cannot OHKO it/her and Lele can OHKO), and Magic Bounce (Mega Sableye will not like repeated Twinkle Tackles, though, Psych Up's full heal still works, and if Klefki can end up Swaggering itself without hitting itself in confusion...). Its second biggest problems are hax (it happens), the risk of getting KO'd once hax happens (lessened, thanks to Klefki's full heal), and people switching around (I'm supporting this guy with Spikes-stacking in my later teams).
...Actually, I'm surprised how often I use Twinkle Tackle instead of Foul Play. Psych Up copying the opponent's attack boosts helps, though losing the special defence boosts from Z-Thunder Wave is often no fun.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Try Ultimate Z in Smogon's Other Metagames. One of the best features I've found in it is how Pokemon suddenly get terrible cases of five-moveslot syndrome there. It's got other features such as Z-Haze and Z-Psych Up suddenly being terrifying full heals for stall and just plain defensive mons alike, and utter freaking nukes for STAB or coverage-that-used-to-be-Hidden Power.

Sounds interesting, though not quite what I had in mind.

You can play it in Dragon Heaven

That'll probably be a problem. I have a couple teams created for a bunch of interesting Other Metagames that I can't use because nobody is ever on the only servers they're playable on. Yaaaay.

[FireArrow]

I mean, it's a battle timer so people can't stall you out? It's not that diferent, self activated or not.

I can't remember the last time I saw a purely defensive Pokemon get banned from OU (Aegislash doesn't count, nor does Deoxys-D). They* have a stall fetish or something.
*(obviously not everyone on the website, but "them" in general, as a whole)

They've never banned a defensive pokemon, expect the two that are banned... What defensive pokemon do you think should be banned? If anything I wanna see shit like greninja go before idk chansey or something.

[mikey]

toxipex

[BlackDragonSlayer]

They've never banned a defensive pokemon, expect the two that are banned...

No, Aegislash doesn't count because it's mostly an offensive threat, not a defensive threat, though one of its forms does have high defensive capacity. Deoxys-D doesn't count because Deoxys is Ubers, and most of its forms are usually quickbanned from OU anyway.

What defensive pokemon do you think should be banned? If anything I wanna see shit like greninja go before idk chansey or something.

Yeah, like Noc said. Toxapex, Celesteela, and Mega Sableye are probably the most likely candidates I'd pick, with Ferrothorn and Chansey/Blissey trailing slightly behind. And maybe Magearna as well. This is mostly referring to OU; even though I'd like to see Toxapex eternally banished, I doubt they'd ban it from Ubers as well.

[Dudeman]

An "anything goes" tier consisting only of Mega Rayquaza and Toxapex does seem a little...unusual.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

An "anything goes" tier consisting only of Mega Rayquaza and Toxapex does seem a little...unusual.

Not really. Mentality like this is what stops defensive threats from being banned, i.e. not equating them "on the same level" as offensive threats. Having high defensive stats, Regenerator, Scald, and Haze should at least be enough to warrant a second look, shouldn't it?

[Dekkadeci]

No, Aegislash doesn't count because it's mostly an offensive threat, not a defensive threat, though one of its forms does have high defensive capacity. Deoxys-D doesn't count because Deoxys is Ubers, and most of its forms are usually quickbanned from OU anyway.
Yeah, like Noc said. Toxapex, Celesteela, and Mega Sableye are probably the most likely candidates I'd pick, with Ferrothorn and Chansey/Blissey trailing slightly behind. And maybe Magearna as well. This is mostly referring to OU; even though I'd like to see Toxapex eternally banished, I doubt they'd ban it from Ubers as well.

The majority of Magearna sets in Smogon seem offensive instead of defensive (and man am I a fan of aiming Fleur Cannon at opposing Pokemon), and Celesteela has a prominent Autotomize offensive set, so I'll have to disagree with calling them defensive Pokemon if Aegislash isn't a defensive Pokemon (Aegislash did have a prominent SubToxic(-King's Shield-attack) set in Gen 6 OU that sat around and poisoned out counters to its other sets).

In the meantime, the irony is that Giratina-A and Zygarde-C (i.e. Zygarde with Power Construct) are stuck in defensive roles in Ubers, while Zygarde-C got quickbanned to Ubers because of its ability to sweep OU teams. ...Despite Zygarde-C and Giratina-A having roughly equal offensive stats, access to boosting moves, and recovery. (I think Giratina-A has only ever been insta-banned, but if Zygarde-C can sweep OU teams, then so can Giratina-A.)

[BlackDragonSlayer]

The majority of Magearna sets in Smogon seem offensive instead of defensive (and man am I a fan of aiming Fleur Cannon at opposing Pokemon)

In Ubers, Magearna is used as a defensive counter to Xerneas. Even in OU, Magearna is considerably bulky, even if it uses offensive moves; if it doesn't use its own boosting moves, it's mostly used to wall stuff and chip away.

Celesteela has a prominent Autotomize offensive set

The defensive set is far, far more prominent, especially with the generally stall-oriented current meta in both OU and Ubers.

(Aegislash did have a prominent SubToxic(-King's Shield-attack) set in Gen 6 OU that sat around and poisoned out counters to its other sets)

Having access to a certain set does not mean that it is its most common, or especially optimal, set. In OU, Aegislash was primarily offensive, while in Ubers, it takes more of a defensive role.

In the meantime, the irony is that Giratina-A and Zygarde-C (i.e. Zygarde with Power Construct) are stuck in defensive roles in Ubers, while Zygarde-C got quickbanned to Ubers because of its ability to sweep OU teams. ...Despite Zygarde-C and Giratina-A having roughly equal offensive stats, access to boosting moves, and recovery. (I think Giratina-A has only ever been insta-banned, but if Zygarde-C can sweep OU teams, then so can Giratina-A.)

Not really sure how this is relevant. Both Pokemon have Ubers-worthy base stat totals and in the case of Zygarde, a powerful coverage move (rip Kyurem-B), with the only caveat being you have to activate its ability first.

EDIT: To put it more simply, both Celesteela and Magearna are primarily defensive with offensive capabilities, rather than the other way around.