TWG XL: Uprising Madness

[davy]

I request a phase extension of one day.

[spitllama]

Night 2 ends Monday, October 1, 2012, at 11PM EDT/10PM CDT/9PM MDT/8PM PDT/7PM ADT/1PM Australian Eastern Standard Time

[Jub3r7]

late death post bla bla

I keep feeling guilty for not being active but then I remember that I died two whole phases ago.

[Zunawe]

Argh, so much stuff going on. Sorry ahead of time if I'm not as active as I should be. I've been overloaded with homework and band and such.

[Yugi]

Phase should have ended an o=hour AGO

[MaestroUGC]

Spit extended the phase for another day...

[Yugi]

I knoww, it said it ended Monday 1 PM for Australians.
It's two PM now.

[MaestroUGC]

Really, he has it for for 23 hours from now for the others, he probably means Oct 2nd for you.

[Yugi]

Okay.

[Yugi]

Come to the Chat.

[spitllama]

There's been some confusion about the potential outcomes of the game, so let me specify what they are:

1) Wolves outnumber humans (not FoN + humans!)                         --> Wolves vs. FoN deathmatch (one team must eradicate the other)

2) All wolves are killed                                                                       --> Humans vs. FoN deathmatch (one team must eradicate the other)

3) FoN have Hades when either outcome 1) or outcome 2) occurs   --> FoN wins


*To repeat an old fact, when Hades is captured, he's effectively dead, and the wolf count reflects that.
*In outcome 1), the remaining humans stay alive, and can lynch as they please. However, the human team has already lost, and their lynches can solely affect whether or not the wolves win or the FoN win.

[Yugi]

 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
14:01   *** Fox joined #TWGNSM
14:01 Fox Back.
14:02 Vermilionvermin hi
14:03 Vermilionvermin What do you think the mafia would claim to bubbles?
14:03 Fox ...
14:03 Fox What.
14:04 Vermilionvermin Well Bubbles is Pit.
14:04 Vermilionvermin And the Mafia are in trouble if they didn't claim to her.
14:05 Fox The Mafia...?
14:05 Vermilionvermin oh sorry
14:05 Vermilionvermin the werewolves
14:05 Fox Oh.
14:09 Vermilionvermin I think that good wolves would claim non-divine human
14:12 Fox and bad wolves?
14:14 Vermilionvermin Not sure
14:14 Vermilionvermin What do you think they'd claim?
14:14 Fox Wolf.
14:15 Vermilionvermin You think wolves would claim wolf to bubbles?
14:15 Fox Bad wolves.
14:15 Vermilionvermin oh,
14:15 Vermilionvermin What do you think you'd claim as a wolf?
14:15 Fox FoN.
14:16 Vermilionvermin Wouldn't that just get you Roleblocked though?
14:16 Vermilionvermin and do you think that means that Bird is a wolf?
14:16 Fox Probably not.
14:16 Fox He's too good fo that.
14:21   *** Maestro joined #TWGNSM
14:21 Maestro I'm here now.
14:21 Fox Hi.
14:21 Vermilionvermin Hi Maestro
14:22 Vermilionvermin Who do you think we should lynch tomorrow?
14:22 Maestro Hmm, FSM is dead, and Bird calimed as who, Viridi or something like that/
14:23 Vermilionvermin Correct.
14:23 Fox In dat cool Font.
14:24 Maestro One wolf and an FoN is dead.
14:24 Maestro Fox supposedly fake claimed to FSM, did he tell you anything?
14:24 Fox No.
14:24   *** spit joined #TWGNSM
14:25 Fox And verm told me to Spy on FSM.
14:25 Maestro Hmm.
14:25 Fox He died before he could tell me Pandoras Identity.
14:26 Maestro Why did Bird claim, he's already lost one of his teammates.
14:26 Maestro Their victory with wolves is out of the question now.
14:26 Maestro Meaning its the 2 of them against the rest of us.
14:27 Vermilionvermin They never could win with the wolves
14:27 Maestro If they had Hades under thier control, or something like that, and if it came down to a wolf victory, they'd win.
14:28 Fox Are you talking about the FoN or the Wolves.
14:28 Maestro FoN.
14:28 Maestro The wolvesare normal win conditions, right?
14:29 Maestro have*
14:29 spit Yes
14:29 Vermilionvermin I think so.
14:29 spit Unless the FoN have Hades
14:29 Vermilionvermin But the FoN override all other win conditions
14:29 Maestro Meaning the humans need to kill both the wolves and FoN to win.
14:29 Vermilionvermin Right.
14:30 spit False
14:30 Maestro ?
14:30 spit Humans only need to kill the wolves off. There are two outcomes that can result from that:
14:31 Fox Fon or Humans Win.
14:32 Fox Spits making a post.
14:33 Vermilionvermin Wait what?
14:33 Vermilionvermin But if hades is dead
14:33 Maestro The FoN have to kill the humans to win.
14:33 Maestro I'm not seeing any other win conditions.
14:33 spit 1) if the FoN are in possession of Hades when the other two wolves are killed, FoN wins
14:33 spit 2) if the FoN do NOT have Hades when all the wolves are killed off, it becomes humans vs. FoN
14:34 spit I'm sorry
14:34 spit Looking back now, you were right
14:34 Fox DUNDUNDUN
14:34 spit It's past midnight, if you can tell lol
14:34 Maestro Right, and since FSM claimed as Hades, it's win condition 2 now.
14:34 Maestro Since we lynched him.
14:35 Fox And Now we lynch Bird?
14:35 Maestro Assumning he wasn't lying and trying to ull a Jub, but seeing as it's FSM, I doubt it.
14:36 Maestro Speaking of Jub, nobody knows if he was a human or FoN?
14:37 Fox Human.
14:37 Fox 1/2 chance special.
14:37 Vermilionvermin How do you know that?
14:37 Fox Greg was a Fon.
14:37 Fox And FSM Pm'd me to wolf Jub.
14:37 Maestro Yes, but it was a wolfing that killed him.
14:38 Fox So he had to be Human.
14:38 Fox Because FSM was guarded.
14:38 Maestro That doesn't mean he wasn't FoN, since FSM didn't know who they were.
14:39 Vermilionvermin Maestro, something Fox and I were discussing earlier:  What would you claim if you were a wolf?
14:39 Vermilionvermin to bubbles
14:40 Maestro Depends on what wolf role I was.
14:40 Maestro Guard=guard
14:40 Maestro Seer=Magus
14:40 Maestro Master=human without divinity.
14:40 Vermilionvermin You'd claim a special role?
14:41 Maestro It's easier to prove, since everything is done at night.
14:41 Vermilionvermin I think I'd just go with non-divine human
14:41 Vermilionvermin and then go with the defense that I'd have claimed divine human if I were a wolf
14:42 Fox I said FoN
14:42 Maestro Yes, but it'd be easier to sneak past them while she's trying to find friend from foe.
14:42 Maestro Of course, that's assuming no one claimed in the thread.
14:43 Fox Bird did.
14:43 Maestro Yes, he did, and I can't see why he would at this point.
14:43 Maestro Either his partner has claimed to him and they're cooking something up, or he's on his own.
14:43 Fox He wants the otherfon to Claim to him.
14:44 spit I need to clarify something when you guys is done.
14:44 spit 00:31   Maestro   The wolvesare normal win conditions, right?
14:44 spit If wolves = humans, humans win, but remember that the FoN are still playing!
14:45 spit Sorry baah
14:45 spit If wolves= humans, humans lose, but the FoN are still playing.
14:45 spit Objectives become:
14:45 spit Wolves: Wolf all the FoN to solidify your win. FoN: Correct all the wolves to solidify your win. Humans: You've already lost, but you may still lynch as usual to decide which team comes out victorious!"
14:45 spit This is what I meant in the OP by "I'll post these mechanics if the time comes"
14:46 spit It's not really important right now, but since you asked I figured I'd say so.
14:46 Maestro What if the remaining humans and FoN kill all the wolves?
14:46 Maestro then its FoN vs. Humans.
14:46 Maestro Or do humans still lose regardless?
14:46 Vermilionvermin I would have thought that if wolves = all other roles, wolves win
14:46 Vermilionvermin if wolves have hades, FoN win
14:46 Maestro Yeah.
14:47 spit Humans lose no matter what, but it keeps the FoN and wolves from immediately knowing who's who
14:47 Vermilionvermin *if FoN have hades
14:47 spit Humans can influence lynches and affect who wins
14:47 Fox but if Wolfs = Humans+Fon.
14:47 Vermilionvermin Humans shouldn't lose if they can still win
14:47 Vermilionvermin If the humans can still outlast FoN and wolves they shouldn't be eliminated
14:47 Maestro Yeah
14:48 Vermilionvermin If, for example, there are 2 wolves, 2 humans, and an FoN, the game shouldn't be over for the humans
14:48 Fox but what if their are 3 wolves, 1 corruptted,2 FoN and 2 Humans.
14:48 Fox Who wins.
14:49 Fox ?
14:49 spit It's still by normal win objectives, though. If humans = wolves, wolves "win." If there are no wolves to humans, humans "win."
14:49 spit I discussed this with Mashi and he seemed to be very fond of this mechanic...
14:50 Vermilionvermin so wait
14:50 Vermilionvermin theoretically
14:50 Vermilionvermin the humans could have lost on day 1
14:50 Vermilionvermin through no fault of their own
14:50 Vermilionvermin if hades corrupted a human and the wolves wolfed a human and the FoN corrected a human
14:50 Vermilionvermin before they got to lynch anyone
14:50 Maestro That's a ridiculous oversight.
14:51 Vermilionvermin Well, technically the conversion wouldn't occur until the next night phase
14:51 spit And the corruption can be stopped for that very reason
14:51 Vermilionvermin but still, I don't think the humans should lose if the wolves don't outnumber everyone else
14:52 Vermilionvermin Third-parties usually count toward the human total
14:52 Vermilionvermin The corruption can't be stopped
14:52 Vermilionvermin can it?
14:55 spit The FoN are told at the start of the night phase if a player will be corrupted that phase. A decision to save that player does not use up that night's correction. The identity of the saved player is secret.
14:55 spit To quote the thread
14:55 Maestro And if they decide not to save them?
14:56 spit Then the corruption goes through. It's all based on the FoN's own knowledge of their standing vs. other teams. At Night 1, however, with their most obvious targets being the wolves, they will 99% of the time prevent the corruption.
14:56 Maestro Where did you get that statistic from?
14:57 spit My ass
14:57 Maestro Exactly.
14:57 spit Regardless, the mechanic is there.
14:57 spit It's not as important to balance teams in 3 teams because a single poor choice on any team can drastically change the game.
14:58 spit To paraphrase Mashi
14:58 Maestro Any single poor choice in any game can drastically change it.
14:59 Fox ike FSM Claiming.
14:59 Maestro That's usually how TWG works.
15:00 spit So the point is what?
15:01 Maestro There's no real point, I'm just saying that the humans being able to lose easily over the other teams isn't balanced.
15:05 spit I do get that. If we were to play this game again (which we won't), that would be changed. Ideally, I would have liked to have 5 Centurions w/ divinity, and 2 w/o, but our forum is not large enough to have that.
15:05 spit I am thankful that Night 1 did not go how Verm said it could have gone, but again that's what the FoN save was for, blah blah blah.
15:06 Vermilionvermin I have to do homework now
15:06 Vermilionvermin I procrastinated too much
15:06 Maestro Well, at any rate, our main focus should be the wolves, sinc ethe FoN can't kill anyone like the wolves can.
15:06 Fox But.
15:07 Fox If Hades dies.
15:07   *** Vermilionvermin quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
15:07 Fox The FoN can't correct.
15:07 Maestro Wait,
15:08 Maestro "Alternatively, if Hades is wolfed or lynched, the FoN's objective will change to eliminating everyone else (when this occurs, it will be privately noted to the FoN -- Pit and Thanatos become vulnerable). The extra mechanics of this situation of the game will be explained when necessary."
15:08 Maestro What extra mechanics?
15:09 spit That's everything I've posted here
15:09 spit How if wolves = humans then it's wolves vs. fon
15:09 spit All that
15:09 spit I'm making it public now after this fiasco
15:09 Maestro That should've been public to begin with.
15:14 Maestro If Hades is dead, Bird would know about it.
15:14 Maestro Since the FoN is told their objective has changed.
15:16 Fox He didn't say.
15:16 Maestro Why did he claim, he knows he's going to die because of it.
15:17 Maestro Sure he'll find his partner, but then it'd be one player against everybody else.
15:22 spit I'm going to go. If there are any pressing issues, I'll hear about it well before the phase end.
15:22   *** spit quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
15:23 Maestro You claimed as wolf guardian, right?
15:23 Fox To FSM.
15:24 Maestro What did you claim to Bubbles?
15:25 Fox Human with divinity.
15:25 Fox Also I said that I pretended to be Thanatos.
15:26 Maestro Ok.
15:28 Maestro So then we must assume that the wolves are still united then, since FSM died before he could do anything about it.
15:28 Maestro not united*

[BlackDragonSlayer]

@SocialFox
Very interesting, and long.

[Bird]

The other FoN still hasn't claimed to me. If you have doubts about whether I'm not really Viridi, please raise those doubts in the thread. I'm certain I can eliminate them.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

The other FoN still hasn't claimed to me. If you have doubts about whether I'm not really Viridi, please raise those doubts in the thread. I'm certain I can eliminate them.

Hmmm... that gives me some suspicions about who the other FoN member might be...