Politics

[Splatoon Inkling]

My whole point is that God can use anyone to accomplish his purpose. Not saying that we shouldn't care about politics, but that God is still ultimately in control. Daniel 2:21 states He changes times and seasons; he deposes kings and raises up others. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.

[Sebastian]

Whewww. I missed a lot.

First of all, Splatoon, I wouldn't necessarily says that liberals hate Christians. That's kind of a foolish claim.

God's omnipotent, not controlling.  If he was, we wouldn't be able to choose, then at that point wouldn't it just be God saying who gets to go to heaven or not?  Seems like a broken system :p

Yes and no. It's a balance between God's sovereignty and human choosing, which is obviously beyond our comprehension. I have this discussion with friends of mine all the time.
Put simply, we don't understand everything, which is good. If we could understand everything about God, then we wouldn't need him. That's how I'd resolve that. I don't think it's a smart thing to say, "Seems like a broken system" if you believe in God, cause he's clearly infinitely powerful and can definitely understand things beyond our comprehension.

Not to get too much into religion, but I agree with this. I think God gives humans the free will to decide their own fate, even if that leads to problems. I'm not really a fan of people who turn to inaction because they believe that God is going to run their life for them.

I partly agree with this. Yes, I don't agree with people that totally turn to inaction, as you said.

I'd be interested to see which policies of Trump's you think are good, specifically as it pertains to biblical values.

Obviously, Trump isn't perfect. In fact, he has quite a few problems. As I have stated in the past, I saw Hillary as the greater of two evils. One example of a biblical view I do agree on with him is the aspect of abortion. I could never vote for someone who is in favor of abortion no matter how rotten the other candidate is. It's my personal conviction not to break on issues like that.
Also, PDS, randomly regurgitating Bible verses isn't helpful. With all due respect, you don't have a great track record with keeping Bible verses in context. If you'd like to discuss that in the appropriate topic, I'd be happy to.

Christian values aren't immune to scrutiny intrinsically and pretending otherwise would be intellectually dishonest because they aren't homogeneous. What makes your interpretation of christian values better than Obama's, Alexandria Cortez's, Hillary Clinton's?

There is a difference between conservative/Christian values and biblical values. There are many people that use Christian values as a fascade for guarding all their personal ideas when in fact many of their ideas aren't biblical. So whoever is saying that christian values and biblical values are the same I'd heavily disagree with.

As for Obama, Hillary, etc. (Which could be examples of the point I just made)
They are clearly not holding to biblical values if they're supporting abortion, homosexuality, etc.
So, yes, they may claim to have some christian views, but they clearly aren't biblical if they're referring to that.
Also, there are several ways in which Trump isn't holding to biblical values either, so back to what I said earlier-- lesser of two evils in my opinion.

[FireArrow]

 @splatoon Ok, I believe you. God is and always has been in control of our elections. God put obama in office to save us and put trump in office to punish us for trying so hard to smear obamas very moderate and effective presidency. Go, prove me wrong.

@seb Stop changing the word your using to avoid the question. Fine, biblical values - what makes you an authority on what "correct" biblical values are? You use gay marriage (I presume?) as an example, but I know plenty of christians who would argue its a biblical value to let gays make their own decisions and let god be the judge, and they'd likely take you a fool if you were to say your values are because the preachers at your church know better than theirs (Im intentionally not talking about abortion because that gets complicated fast.)

Do you see why you can't make an argument, quote a source that always supports your value system, and expect to have the argument to be taken seriously? I know fox news is going to call alexandria cortez an idiot every single time she does anything, and when I call you out on using it as a source to prove she's an idiot, you can't say Im discriminating against conservarives/christians/etc. to avoid responsibility for proper research or debate. Thats really the only point Im trying to make (and that net nuetrality is good and necessary for both liberal amd conservative values.)

[Sebastian]

I'm not sure what question you think I'm avoiding.

As for biblical values, the Bible explicitly states that homosexuality is wrong (I could reference passages). I'm not sure what those other Christians you're talking about are saying. Christians and everyone respond to those passages differently (some think they should be free to practice it, some think they shouldn't etc) which is fine, but that doesn't change the fact that the Bible states it as wrong. I don't care what their preacher or my preacher says. I care about what the Bible says, and I understand that not everyone agrees with that, which is fine.

I personally believe that the Bible is the only source of absolute truth, not the conservative view. That's what I'm saying. And for the second time I'm not always saying the conservative side is correct. It's wrong sometimes.
That's all I'm saying.

[Splatoon Inkling]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm trying to say that there are a lot of liberal extremists who stand against Christians. Not all liberals are against Christians.

[Sebastian]

Well, I'm just gonna go ahead and butt out. If you wanna message me privately, that'd be great, but debating publicly seems pointless.

[Splatoon Inkling]

I kind of see your point. Yah I'm gonna leave too, for real this time though. As it is  just pointless to argue this any further. I've made up my mind and you guys have all made up your minds. It's not going to resolve anything to keep going.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

Christians are persecuted in America? lol. They're the majority and currently have influence on every level of govt.

[mikey]

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Matthew 25:35

The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34

You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 10:19

not using KJE smh

I personally believe that the Bible is the only source of absolute truth

there's this real COOL BOOK
you should CHECK out
IT'S called the BOOK of MORMON

protestants are weird imo tbh ngl

As great as it would be to live in a society whose values mirror my own perfectly, that isn't conducive to running a country with 300+ million people, all with different morals and politics.  As far as what does work, I think the two party system is a good solution and foil to tyranny and the constant push pull of the two parties helps keep america from going too far in any direction, or at least it has in the past
Having state legislature also helps alleviate the societal value disconnect.

Christians are persecuted in America? lol. They're the majority and currently have influence on every level of govt.

Jews are persecuted in America?  lol.  They're the majority and currently have influence on every level of govt.

I kind of see your point. Yah I'm gonna leave too, for real this time though. As it is  just pointless to argue this any further. I've made up my mind and you guys have all made up your minds. It's not going to resolve anything to keep going.

I personally would like to see you recognize that you don't have to blindly support the GOP just because the conservative party used to also be the Christian party.  Platforms change, don't change along with them.  Your moral code is more important than the government's moral code.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

Jews are persecuted in America?  lol.  They're the majority and currently have influence on every level of govt.

...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

[mikey]

...?

Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/i-was-highlighting-how-stupid-it-sounds-to-say-stuff-like-that

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

How is it equally stupid to say those things? Your statement was factually incorrect b/c Jews make up <5% of US population whereas Christians are >70%

[PlayfulPiano]

also another article regarding deportation of someone who was living here legally after their spouse in the military died (luckily it was reversed, but likely due to media attention): https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2019/04/15/ice-deports-gonzalez-spouse-u-s-soldier-killed-afghanistan/3477332002/

Snippet:

Gonzalez Carranza said he came to the U.S. illegally from Veracruz, Mexico, in 2004, when he was a teenager. He said he and Vieyra married in 2007.

After his wife was killed in Afghanistan, Gonzalez was granted what is known as parole in place, which allows immigrants in the country illegally to remain in the U.S. without the threat of deportation, Hernandez said.

An immigration judge then terminated deportation proceedings against Gonzalez based on the parole in place, Hernandez said.

However, ICE refiled the case in 2018, Hernandez said.

A judge ordered Gonzalez deported in December 2018 after Hernandez didn't show up for his court hearing, Hernandez said.

But the reason Gonzalez didn't show up is because he never received the notice, Hernandez said. He said ICE sent it to the wrong address

Gonzalez Carranza didn't find out a judge had ordered him deported until ICE officers came to his house last Monday and took him into custody, Hernandez said.

And this as well:

Wang also said it Gonzalez Carranza should not have been deported if there was a stay of removal. She said, however, it is "not uncommon" for ICE to violate stays of removal.

On Monday, Hernandez sent out a news release to draw attention to Gonzalez Carranza's case.

Hernandez said he can't understand why ICE deported him. Gonzalez Carranza has no criminal record, he said.

MBFC: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/arizona-republic/ (Right Center, High Factual Reporting)

You can sort of see why some politicians want ICE (or at least the ERO aspect of ICE) to be dissolved, or remanaged.

[mikey]

How is it equally stupid to say those things? Your statement was factually incorrect b/c Jews make up <5% of US population whereas Christians are >70%

I'm not trying to make the statements equal
you sound so conspiratorial when you're yelling about how the christians are controlling everything lol
that's it
also there's no way that many americans are christian (or at least even semi-devout)

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

I'm not trying to make the statements equal

Your post literally was doing that.

you sound so conspiratorial when you're yelling about how the christians are controlling everything lol
that's it

Missed the point. I was saying that to show that the idea of Christians, the majority in the population by a vast margin with the most representation in government, being discriminated against in the United States is fake. Not even REMOTELY close.

also there's no way that many americans are christian (or at least even semi-devout)

https://news.gallup.com/poll/224642/2017-update-americans-religion.aspx

Either that or it's a "No True Scotsman" situation.