Politics

[SlowPokemon]

I'm not anti-Hillary. Very pro-Hillary. just filled out my absentee ballot today! Can't wait until that clown that republicans consider a potential leader loses the election.

[FireArrow]

I'm certaintly not against Hillary. One thing that I like about her is that she seems to be putting in a genuine effort to reach out and understand various marginalized groups, which is frankly quite the accomplishment for an old straight white women. It's just a matter if she intends to actually do anything once in office.

I'd like to hear more about this...(not saying you're wrong, I'm just not sure exactly what you're referring to).

Namely his taxes and potential history of being a sexual predator.

Regarless, my point isn't that he's a criminal; it's that if I wanted to make him out to be one there's other ways of doing so that would be much more fruitful. Unfortunately, I could care less whether the candidates are technically classified as a criminal or not (which neither currently are.) I'll be my own judge of their character and actions.

[TheMarioPianist]

I'm not anti-Hillary. Very pro-Hillary. just filled out my absentee ballot today! Can't wait until that clown that republicans consider a potential leader loses the election.

I'll try to disregard the second half of that comment.....I guess it's better than the typical racist, sexist, xenophobic, [insert something here]-ophobic comments that I normally hear (which I would be willing to debunk at some point). As I said before, I'm quite curious as to what motivates people to select one candidate or the other. Would you mind if I asked you what particular policies draw you to Secretary Clinton? While I may compare and contrast your views with mine afterwards, I am certainly willing to respect your opinions/reasons, as long as it is not "She's not Trump." To me, that's not a real reason and it demonstrates lack of research on the other candidate. However, your enthusiasm suggests that you are not one of those people, so please, I'm all ears! (Well, this is on a screen, so eyes...whatever. XD)

Namely his taxes and potential history of being a sexual predator.

Regarless, my point isn't that he's a criminal; it's that if I wanted to make him out to be one there's other ways of doing so that would be much more fruitful. Unfortunately, I could care less whether the candidates are technically classified as a criminal or not (which neither currently are.) I'll be my own judge of their character and actions.

I won't go too much into this because you don't seem to be worried about this topic, but what Donald did with his taxes was perfectly legal. He was able to avoid some tax payment due to the fact that he took a loss of nearly $1 billion dollars in his company. If you wanted to sit down and read the tax code, you could find in there the loophole that allowed him to do this. Is that a messed up situation? Absolutely. The man is not the problem; it's the code. Oops I said I wouldn't go too much into this...sorry.

On a side note, since you are another Clinton supporter, I guess I'll ask a different question. Have any of the email scandals change your opinion of her at all? Did you trust that the decision that was made about the whole thing, or are there still some grey areas in that situation?

[EFitTrainr]

Has Donald Trump talking about how he sexually assaults women changed your opinion of him at all?

[Dudeman]

The man is not the problem; it's the code.

I think if you actively exploit a loophole in a tax code to avoid repercussions, that says quite a bit about your values...

[mikey]

1) anything Hillary Clinton did with emails was legal but stupid.  She's stupid.

2) Anything Donald trump did to avoid paying taxes wasn't jumping through loopholes, it's how taxes work.

3) What makes the things Donald trump has said any worse than any of the vulgarities that any of you guys say?

Keep these in mind while debating, can't wait to see where this one ends up (good luck tmp)

[EFitTrainr]

There's a difference between me constantly using expletives and Trump discussing how he sexually assaults women. The two aren't even comparable.

It's like saying giggling at a very loud fart and showing someone a video of a person literally eating shit are the same thing because they both involve stuff that comes out the butthole.

[mikey]

I'm not excusing his language as it was vulgar and offensive.  I just think the things other people say are equally offensive (Clinton is actually a big potty mouth btw ).
An important part of what I want in a president is morals and cleanliness and neither of the bipartisan candidates are exactly good examples of that

[SlowPokemon]

Even the republican investigators looking into the email scandal concluded that there was no evidence of any serious wrongdoing or enough to warrant serious charges.

As for Donald Trump being worse than us: what we (or at least I) partake in might contain profanity, but it's constitutional profanity. Most of our disagreements (speaking directly to Noc about this) have, I believe, stemmed from how seriously I value and advocate the separation of church and state, and the belief that everyone is entitled to freedom FROM religion just as much as freedom OF religion. If I've said something offensive that's not rooted in logic or constitutional freedoms, I'd really appreciate you pointing it out to me so I can apologize. I try to be logical and fair as much as I can. With Trump, however, it's not the "vulgarities" that anger me. It's the remarks and behaviors that are so blatantly racist or xenophobic (see: literally any comments about Muslims, which directly mirror Hitler's comments about Jews), or more commonly--and currently in more of a spotlight because of the tape from 2005 of a 59-year-old Trump talking about sexually forcing himself on women who can't or won't refuse him because of his wealth and power--incredibly sexist. The way he was circling Clinton during the debate and constantly interrupting her shows a man who not only doesn't respect women, but doesn't respect anyone who opposes him. I legitimately believe he's a dangerous and downright horrible candidate. Clinton is not perfect, of course, and anyone who says she is basically doesn't know what they're talking about. But I trust her infinitely more as a capable leader, and don't believe that the email scandal or her husband's extramarital affairs have anything to do with her ability to lead a country effectively.

[SlowPokemon]

Worth adding that Trump calling it "locker room talk" is the kind of mentality that produces athletes like Brock Turner.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

Also the most important point.
We aren't running for president.

[mikey]

Must be a strange election that I agree with you.  From what I've read, Clinton has an on tv personality and an off tv personality.  She treats her inferiors absolutely horribly.  She at least has a filter for when she's on national TV, something that you can't say about Donald trump.  I'm starting to wonder if he might actually have a disability at this point (not being mean or offensive, I could actually see it)

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

Must be a strange election that I agree with you.  From what I've read, Clinton has an on tv personality and an off tv personality.  She treats her inferiors absolutely horribly.  She at least has a filter for when she's on national TV, something that you can't say about Donald trump.  I'm starting to wonder if he might actually have a disability at this point (not being mean or offensive, I could actually see it)

There's talk that he might have narcissistic personality disorder. FWIW, my older brother has the same condition and all the symptoms he exhibits (despite being left leaning) are also there in Trump.

With Trump's taxes, yeah, he payed zero in taxes to benefit his business.. But why could he do that? Horrible tax code aside, it's because in a single year he lost nearly a BILLION dollars. Talk about a successful businessman, amirite?

As far as Bill's extramarital affairs, yeah, what he did was bad and Hillary coming out and demonizing Monica was bad. However, it simply isn't the same (nor nearly as recent) as Donald Trump FORCING himself onto women who can do nothing to resist it because of his wealth and power.

@TMP

I'll try to disregard the second half of that comment.....I guess it's better than the typical racist, sexist, xenophobic, [insert something here]-ophobic comments that I normally hear (which I would be willing to debunk at some point). As I said before, I'm quite curious as to what motivates people to select one candidate or the other.

You don't have to be a racist, sexist, or xenophobe to support Trump, but you do have to be okay with those things.

Would you mind if I asked you what particular policies draw you to Secretary Clinton? While I may compare and contrast your views with mine afterwards, I am certainly willing to respect your opinions/reasons, as long as it is not "She's not Trump." To me, that's not a real reason and it demonstrates lack of research on the other candidate. However, your enthusiasm suggests that you are not one of those people, so please, I'm all ears! (Well, this is on a screen, so eyes...whatever. XD)

I know you were asking Slow, but I'll also take some time to respond since he and I are fairly similar on this (though I'm sure we disagree in certain areas).
Policies/other areas that Clinton is objectively better with:
- Climate Change
- Freedom of (from) Religion
- Gun regulations
- Ending the Drug War- neither of them are likely to end it, I think, but HRC will almost certainly do a better job.
- General international relationships; for all her faults, Hillary can at least act presidential, and has a fair amount of experience as Secretary of State.
- Healthcare
- College tuition + debt
- Police Violence
- All social issues

In addition, consider that Trump wants to appoint the equivalent of Antonin Scalia (who literally said that blacks should go to "slower tracked schools"). While I'm not hugely a fan of Merrick Garland, he's a far better pick.

However, the material he used to rock Secretary Clinton last night was pure truth.

Not exactly.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/09/fact-checks-second-presidential-debate/

The fact that she stuttered and asked the moderator to move on from the email questions was a pretty big hint that whatever is hidden in those deleted emails is pretty bad.

Possibly. It's also possible that it was because that 25 minutes into the first debate, there were no discussions on policy substance.

It is fair to say that a decent percentage of voters this year consider themselves anti-Trump or anti-Clinton, rather than actually supporting the other candidate.

Definitely fair to say, and I'm probably in this category more than I admit.

Although I will miss the chance to vote by a few months, I am proud to be a supporter of Donald Trump (as is the great majority of my family).

So, you're proud to be a supporter of someone who you admitted earlier is probably a bully, and who was caught on tape talking about how he sexually assaults women?
 

I am not here to attempt to convince you to change your votes; rather, I am more curious to see why those that talk politics on this forum support the candidate that they do. By the same token, I am open to honestly answering any questions about my stances on issues.

All fair enough.

I leave you with one final thought: The purpose of the presidential election is to allow its citizens to choose who they believe is the best man or woman to lead and represent the United States. Voting is a responsibility, and it is imperative that the citizens of this country take the time to thoroughly research all options and to choose based on reason, not emotion. Whether we choose to Make America Great Again, or contend that America will remain great if we are Together with Her, let us hope that our choice moves the country forward.

Preferably by not moving it backwards.

[mikey]

Clinton doesn't actually care about current social issues, and trump is actually More liberal than her, just in a different way

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I'm not anti-Hillary. Very pro-Hillary. just filled out my absentee ballot today! Can't wait until that clown that republicans consider a potential leader loses the election.

Don't know why you're so ecstatic about this. Regardless of who wins, we all lose.