Politics

[FireArrow]

It wasn't too long ago that a baby was one of the best things that could happen to a person, not a problem that needs to be fixed.

Are you suggesting unwanted pregnancies weren't a thing or are you suggesting that parents don't love their children anymore, because neither is true.

if men and women are equal then their opinions should be just as important, no?

If doctors and lawyers are equal than their opinions on eating right should be just as important, no?

[Ruto]

It wasn't too long ago that a baby was one of the best things that could happen to a person, not a problem that needs to be fixed.

Back before the mean old government said you have to feed and send your kids to school, right? Not just let them outside to collect scrap tin for money or work for free on your farm and pants factory? People don't think about how much it costs to raise kids at all, and of course, don't even help people with their kids. That one type of person that hates the government and whines about regulation and taxes are usually the ones to tell other people to shove off because they've got theirs.

if men and women are equal then their opinions should be just as important, no?

Wear this rasta-themed codpiece to school. Don't like that? Then don't tell other people what to do with their fashion sense or bodies -.-

But getting in bed with someone is a choice to take a risk. Frankly, if a woman isn't prepared for a kid, maybe she should avoid the bed. All choices have consequences be they good or bad.y argument because I am a man. I'm just explaining my opinions and I'm open to being convinced of a contradictory argument if I can be persuaded.

It's funny how you only say women should avoid beds. Women don't have the right to enjoy sex now? What if I said guys should avoid sleeping with others? I'm sure if a guy wanted out on the deal, he would be able to get out of it if it were not for those pesky DNA tests.

By stepping into a car you agree there's a chance your car will flip over and fall down a ravine...let's not drive to work because there's a chance that would happen la la la...Even with all the protective measures that exist. Sounds like a rubbish argument.

[Altissimo]

Well many of the fetuses that are aborted still manage to survive anyways. Babies are aborted later in conception than many when they are born prematurely and still live. Do fetuses survive being born before the scheduled abortion date? Because it has happened.

I do believe that there should be a cut-off date, because after a certain point it's like "ok ... really?". I won't deny that. But it should be around the time of viability, which I think is about 22/23 weeks iirc (what PDS was saying earlier). Anything before that is fair game. And actually anything after would be fair game if it turns out that something would direct put the mother's life in danger, because I think that no matter how far along the pregnancy is the woman has more of a right to her own, pre-established life, than she has an obligation to the fetus for its life that hasn't gone anywhere yet. No woman should be forced to die for offspring.

Also:

But getting in bed with someone is a choice to take a risk. Frankly, if a woman isn't prepared for a kid, maybe she should avoid the bed. All choices have consequences be they good or bad.

No, really, why is it only women? Why am I suddenly not allowed to do what I want simply because I'm on the other side of things? This is a straight up horribly sexist and offensive argument, I'm sorry... and this is part of the reason why I think abortion is one sex-difference issue where I believe men should have very little say.

[mikey]

it's funny, because I don't ever remember JDMEK saying that guys are allowed to have sex whenever they want.  You guys are putting words into our mouths

[Sebastian]

Here are things that you do that destroy a "potential human"

1) Fap
2) "those kinds of dreams"
3) Wear skinny jeans
4) Mountain Dew???
5) Miscarry naturally (been told that a really good chance of pregnancy is close to 90% so 10% of time must be duds to begin with at least)
6) Zika
7) Herpes
8 ) Flu
9) Not eating enough folate
10) Booze
11) Sitting on a radiator or hot tub
12) ...etc

There are enough things to kill sperm/fetus/babby as it is but only one is evil?

lol
None of these things constitutes a baby or embryo or fetus or whatever the heck you wanna call it and none of these things will turn into a baby after how ever many months.
Abortion is ending a life, no matter how you look at it. If you didn't abort the baby, it'd be a male/female human in less than however many months.

Well many of the fetuses that are aborted still manage to survive anyways. Babies are aborted later in conception than many when they are born prematurely and still live. Do fetuses survive being born before the scheduled abortion date?

This so much.

No, really, why is it only women? Why am I suddenly not allowed to do what I want simply because I'm on the other side of things? This is a straight up horribly sexist and offensive argument, I'm sorry... and this is part of the reason why I think abortion is one sex-difference issue where I believe men should have very little say.

It isn't only women. That's not what he meant.

it's funny, because I don't ever remember JDMEK saying that guys are allowed to have sex whenever they want.  You guys are putting words into our mouths

^^

[Altissimo]

it's funny, because I don't ever remember JDMEK saying that guys are allowed to have sex whenever they want.  You guys are putting words into our mouths

Sorry but I'm pretty sure "If a woman isn't prepared for a kid, she should avoid the bed" with no mention of men's place in the issue is kind of a tacit statement that men don't have to.

Ok but if it's still putting words in your mouth which it isn't let me rephrase it: Why should I have to avoid the bed because others have decided I don't have control over my body?

@MLF: What is the difference between a sperm cell and a zygote?

[mikey]

you don't have to "avoid the bed", you need to understand the consequences that can come with sex n stuff

[Sebastian]

@MLF: What is the difference between a sperm cell and a zygote?

The zygote has unique DNA.

[Altissimo]

I'm not saying I don't. Putting words in my mouth, there. What I'm saying is there is a tacit implication that only women need to worry about the consequences and that only women should be ready for a kid if they are having sex. If you would like to explain to me how your argument applies to men too than I may retract my statements about calling out sexism but at the moment it doesn't look that way.

@mlf: ok? so? how does this make it any more worth saving than the sperm cell?

[Ruto]

you don't have to "avoid the bed", you need to understand the consequences that can come with sex n stuff

I'm sure a lot of women know that so don't assume no one does. There's birth control that lets people enjoy winking at each other, but there's a chance it doesn't work, just like how seatbelts are in your car to stop you from flying through the window in an accident. The seatbelts don't save your face every time but it's there to help.

The zygote has unique DNA.

Nice trying to science but the real answer is 46 chromosomes. Humans *can* have identical DNA even if they're not twins, it's just a ridiculously small chance.

It's so funny that you value a "human life" instead of all those chickens you ate and stuffed into cages. If you didn't abort, the fetus will still die if it's not viable (yes this is possible). It could also be born and have a horrible life, like breathing with machines...but you still have to feed it and bathe it. Babies also don't magically come out fine and healthy. Ever heard of having to feed a pregnant woman or she would miscarry?

@Alti
Clearly men don't understand that women should be able to enjoy sex. That's so 1900.

[Dude]

What if a baby is born and they live a shitty life in poverty, abuse, or is put up for adoption and moved around from house to house because no family can deal with them due to the kid's poor disposition or a disability. Is that any better?

I mean people say "oh they'll cure cancer" but is that really realistic?

[mikey]

Clearly I'm not qualified to discuss this subject because of my religious beliefs.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

@"what if they have the cure to cancer" discussion

I know this may be a shock, but fetuses do not come into this world with advanced medical science implanted into their heads. Those kinds of people are created, not born. No fetus is particularly "destined" for anything.
If you actually want our society to discover the cure to cancer, probably the best way to do it is to allocate some money for the R&D thereof.

Clearly I'm not qualified to discuss this subject because of my religious beliefs.

Well, religion does tend to give a bias in this direction. But I/we are glad that you're recognizing your bias!

[Sebastian]

Well, religion does tend to give a bias in this direction. But I/we are glad that you're recognizing your bias!

So does lack of religion.

[mikey]

oh shut up