Politics

[BlackDragonSlayer]

"THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS! DONATE TO ME AT BERNIE SANDERS DOT COM"

Well, it may seem absurd, but it does prove his point.

[Altissimo]

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST PRISON POPULATION IN THE WORLD." Yeah, and they're all in there for crimes they didn't commit. Oh, heavens!

How is this evidence of senility? Pointing out the prison population is important exactly because of the incidence of innocent or mentally ill prisoners.

[Clanker37]

Bernie: "CLIMATE CHANGE IS OUR BIGGEST ENEMY BECAUSE IF WE DON'T ACT NOW OUR CHILDREN WILL INHERIT AN UNINHABITABLE PLANET." I don't even think most climate change models predict this lol. Unless the change skyrockets to an average of one degree per year (which it won't) I'm pretty sure my children will live on a habitable planet.

You are technically correct, but the fact of the matter is that the tipping point is just over the horizon, so, in effect, if we don't act now, we may as well be giving our children an inhabitable planet. Of course, the actual effect will be an uninhabitable planet (by our standards of living) for our great-great grand children, which, it could be argued, are still our children. In essence, unless Climate Change is acted upon, our descendants will inherit an inhabitable planet.

Of course Sander's is using hyperbole and family appeal to persuade his audience, but all politicians do this. Personally, I find his use of persuasive devices more succinct and amiable than that of Donald Trump, for example.

[Ruto]

A few quotes from Bernie to back this up (paraphrased, of course):

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST CHILD POVERTY RATE OF ANY MAJOR COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!" Um, no. China and India are major countries.

Yeah, comparing the US to developing countries is so schmart! One thing I learned from my Chinese culture class is that China took the most people out of poverty in the last 50 years than any other country in history.

"THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS! DONATE TO ME AT BERNIE SANDERS DOT COM"

Obviously you need money to keep a campaign running! Besides, he turned away dirty money and that's better than what a lot of people would do. Trump has billions and he accepts donations, why aren't you complaining about that?

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST PRISON POPULATION IN THE WORLD." Yeah, and they're all in there for crimes they didn't commit. Oh, heavens!

You have a lot to read...

Question: What is America's biggest enemy?

Bernie: "CLIMATE CHANGE IS OUR BIGGEST ENEMY BECAUSE IF WE DON'T ACT NOW OUR CHILDREN WILL INHERIT AN UNINHABITABLE PLANET." I don't even think most climate change models predict this lol. Unless the change skyrockets to an average of one degree per year (which it won't) I'm pretty sure my children will live on a habitable planet.

Yes, we know you're a denier, but that's not how climate change would work. One article I saw on Scientific American says 100 degree winters in 2100 are possible. Right now, the warmer, more acidic oceans are killing off coral and driving fish north. Also, there's a theory that the mass dying of sea stars are due to a virus that proliferates in warmer water. But you're going to say we don't need oceans to live now? I'm not the one to shove the problems to kids, but people do it now and in the 80s like it's cool.

What is a civil conversation?

i personally prefer the yaoi comparison

I saw an FF one a few weeks ago and was like "there is no way you can make that SFW."

[Waddle Bro]

Stop oh my god.
People complain how much fighting there is or how "blueflower is unfairly targeted" but if you actually read the topic, you can see how every "fight" here has spawned from the narrow-minded, propagandistic, biased and/or offensive posts meant to personally attack people instead of criticizing the actual ideas or ideologies. The reason why you think NSM can't talk in a civil fashion is because of some of the bad apples in the basket and you should do something about it. I'm tired of this because I've lost count how many times I've told you all to view things rationally and to keep an open mind. Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement.

bernie sanders is a senile old man

Fren this quote is a textbook case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Also, ageism.

A few quotes from Bernie to back this up (paraphrased, of course):

You're literally arguing to try to back up an ad hominem.
If you write them yourself, they are not quotes from Bernie fren ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ in order "to back that up" first of all you need to use actual quotes instead of these clearly biased quotes, that you even admit to writing these in a bigoted fashion. It's literally like you're fishing for an argument ._.

No I just like making stupid jokes  And arguing with people

and this quote doesn't convince me of your motives on why you keep posting narrow-minded and condescending posts.

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST CHILD POVERTY RATE OF ANY MAJOR COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!" Um, no. China and India are major countries.

Yeah I watched the video but here's a quote

Spoiler

Jeff Frank, Sanders' press secretary, clarified that when the senator said "major country," he meant a member nation of the OECD, an international economic group composed of 34 generally wealthy countries. (OECD stands for the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.)

Frank also said that Sanders was referring to a 2012 UNICEF report on childhood poverty in which the United States ranked 34th out of 35 countries with a childhood poverty rate of 23.1 percent, besting only non-OECD member Romania. The report primarily uses data from 2009.

According to that report, Sanders' statement would be true; however, a later UNICEF report from 2014 with more recent OECD data put the U.S. rate of childhood poverty lower than that of Israel, Mexico, Spain, and Greece, as well as that of non-OECD Latvia. (Romania was not included.)

[close]

So yeah, you're right on how he was clearly overstating the situation, which is typical in politics(not saying it's justified). This is a prime example of how authorities are always questionable.
(But still, I personally think the US' poverty rate is very high and I agree on how no children should have to live in poverty.)

"THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS! DONATE TO ME AT BERNIE SANDERS DOT COM"

I'm not sure if you got the point of that. Major companies are able to donate incredibly much to campaigns, hundreds of thousands and therefore it's easier for major companies to "buy" politicians on their side, essentially corrupting the candidates.
What's worth to note is how unlike fe. Clinton, Sanders rejects all these kind of billionaire donations and hasn't taken any corporate PAC money. Sanders gets I think all of his donations from individuals with a donation limit of $2700, which imo represents the message of how every individual is important with his campaign.

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST PRISON POPULATION IN THE WORLD." Yeah, and they're all in there for crimes they didn't commit. Oh, heavens!

But let me explain, as the difference in income becomes larger, it essentially results in more people suffering from poverty. And as long as the people who suffer from poverty remain a minority, they can't do anything about it, they can't make a change. The social mobility would pretty much be at a standstill, meaning in general the lower class wouldn't have a chance to rise to a higher class, as they are struggling to even be able to support themselves. In general, those people are more likely to be desperate enough to break the law in order to try to make their lives and situation better. And as you might deduce from all that, the difference in income is also in correlation with the severity of the criminal law. "The more severe the criminal law is, the less crime is likely to occur." It's also notable how corrupted your justice system could become, for example in this case favouring the upper class(instead of whites).

By lowering income differences, you create peace within the society. When there's peace within the society, there isn't that much of a need for prisons.

You are technically correct, but the fact of the matter is that the tipping point is just over the horizon, so, in effect, if we don't act now, we may as well be giving our children an inhabitable planet. Of course, the actual effect will be an uninhabitable planet (by our standards of living) for our great-great grand children, which, it could be argued, are still our children. In essence, unless Climate Change is acted upon, our descendants will inherit an inhabitable planet.

Of course Sander's is using hyperbole and family appeal to persuade his audience, but all politicians do this. Personally, I find his use of persuasive devices more succinct and amiable than that of  Donald "That baby was driving me crazy" Trump, for example.

a+++++++++ post by my fren Clanker, couldn't have said it better myself :] Honestly a lot of people here should learn from these kind of posts.

[Dude]

wow blue i never thought of it that way, you're very persuasive i'll be sure to make my vote on someone who can make america great again like donald trump

[FireArrow]

If you have anything against blueflower's posts, wouldn't it be wiser to not respond rather than make me question why this topic was unlocked? It takes two to argue, no matter who started it.

Fren this quote is a textbook case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Also, ageism.
You're literally arguing to try to back up an ad hominem.

We're electing people into our office, not ideologies. This is not ad hominem at all, he is not avoiding the point of an argument by attacking the person making the argument, because the argument is "is Bernie Sanders fit to be president."

"He's a senile old man" is an incredibly abrasive and weak argument, but it's not a fallacy.

tl;dr
Lock this again.

[mikey]

Lock this again.

no, keep going, I was going to nuke a bag of popcorn

[KefkaticFanatic]

The topic is fine when people have their reasonable debates with one another.  It's when certain members decide to go on a Colbert-tier parody flame baiting crusade when issues arise.  Most people in the topic are capable of civil, logical discussion.  If issues arise unilaterally, then yes it might need closing, otherwise things will be dealt with on an individual basis.  The deficiencies of just one or two individuals in a community should not be what limits the entirety.

Let this be a genero warning I suppose, but without this topic I could easily see posts along the lines of it just bleeding into other areas of the forum as the months progress.

[MaestroUGC]

Outright banning any political discussions, no matter how minor, is just unfeasible.

If you have nothing of value to contribute to the current conversation, please refrain from posting as you will only dilute whatever the subject at hand is and derail the conversation towards a less constructive direction and will likely agitate those trying to have a serious conversation. This means no idle quotes, no blanket "I agree/disagree with X person" without adding to the conversation, and no sarcastic responses like "yeah, sure they will (eye roll)."

Think before you post, please try to cite your sources, and it is recommended that you if you can't handle a heated conversation then do not chime in. We do not need to hear you whining about "I don't like seeing people disagree" or "I don't like this topic".

Also, opinions do not hold any logical weight. Do not expect people to take you seriously if you cannot back up your argument with credible sources. Save parody and satire for elsewhere on the forum.

Just some friendly advice.

[Dude]

Outright banning any political discussions, no matter how minor, is just unfeasible.

Really? Seems as simple as a 3 day ban for each offense tho.

[MaestroUGC]

I meant just blanket "No politics ever" is unfeasible. People will talk about it anyway.

[Dude]

They can talk about it privately though. Why bring it to a Nintendo sheet music forum?

[blueflower999]

They can talk about it privately though. Why bring it to a Nintendo sheet music forum?

With this in mind we could delete probably over 60% of the posts on this forum and the entire "Off Topic" board

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

A few quotes from Bernie to back this up (paraphrased, of course):

Paraphrased =/= taking what he said and making it way more hyperbolic than it was.

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST CHILD POVERTY RATE OF ANY MAJOR COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!" Um, no. China and India are major countries.

He said industrialized countries, which India is not, nor is it a member of the OECD.
 

"THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS! DONATE TO ME AT BERNIE SANDERS DOT COM"

Too much *big* money in politics; millionaires and billionaires like the Koch brothers endorsing campaigns and giving ludicrous sums of money to the candidates that will pass laws convenient to them and reject laws inconvenient to them.

"AMERICA HAS THE HIGHEST PRISON POPULATION IN THE WORLD." Yeah, and they're all in there for crimes they didn't commit. Oh, heavens!

Actually, quite a few people are in jail for crimes they didn't commit, or petty crimes that really aren't worth locking them up for. As a matter of fact, it costs us more money to keep people in a box for ~15 years than to rehabilitate and readjust them. I thought you were all about money?

Question: What is America's biggest enemy?

Bernie: "CLIMATE CHANGE IS OUR BIGGEST ENEMY BECAUSE IF WE DON'T ACT NOW OUR CHILDREN WILL INHERIT AN UNINHABITABLE PLANET." I don't even think most climate change models predict this lol. Unless the change skyrockets to an average of one degree per year (which it won't) I'm pretty sure my children will live on a habitable planet.

Actually, only judging by the damage we've done right now several cities (if not the entire state) of Florida will be gone by 2200 due to rising oceans. To say nothing of the excessive droughts, lack of clean water (those underground reservoirs have almost entirely been contaminated by fracking), massive floods and forest fires (we're already dealing with the latter in my state, Oregon), far warmer winters..

tl;dr: Blue you're putting strawman after strawman on Bernie, not even realizing that your arguments are invalid anyways. And you wonder why people respond and "attack" you?