TWG XXXVI: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya

[Mashi]

I said the phase was going to end in 20 minutes, should I extend it?

E: I'll pm bubbles that she can take shadowkirby's place after she has read the rules..

Yes, please.  I don't really prefer Phases ending in the afternoon.  I would prefer the evening or midnight.

[universe-X]

^this so I can contemplate on who to vote for and hopefully talk to some people. Cuz I won't be able to decide in 10 minutes without bandwagoning UGC, and I really don't wanna do that.

[MaestroUGC]

Oh, of course I was ninja'd. Yes, please extend the phase. But M'm probably not going to be here long enough to change my vote. Work and all that junk.

[the_last_sheikah]

Whatever guys, I joined this game to help you fill the roaster, and TBH, this manhunt style of TWG, it ain't my cup of tea.  Yeah that post seems wolfy in retrospect, but hey, now you guys are actually thinking about who is being killed.

So Imma just vote myself off of this island and focus on my true love, marching band. and that one beauty I see every day.
the_last_sheikah
And so, I bid you all, adieu.

[MaestroUGC]

Woah, ok guys, I highly doubt that a wolf would fall on his own sword in a game with only two wolves. So unless he really just does not care, I have to believe he's human.

Saftey on Slow, mainly because I don't have a strong enough conviction to pursue anyone. I'm still suspicious of Mashi, but not enough to convict him. Also, yes, I'm aware I confused Slow and Jub, that was pointed out to me. I don't know why, but I always confuse the two of you.

[blueflower999]

Mashi

I just... feel like he's been acting strangely. I realize that it's his style to throw in frivolous liners like he's been doing, but this  game, that seems to be all that he's doing. Mashi usually pulls his weight on the team, and this game... he just seems to be goofing around.

[Mashi]

Everyone should join the chatroom to discuss.

And Jub3r7, I'm supposing that since the Phase should have ended 40 minuets ago, you went through with the Phase extension?  If so (though, this is probably obvious), please post when the Phase will end today (or tomorrow, if you're especially kind) as soon as possible!

[Mashi]

-->|   Kman96 (Mibbit@NF-C22258DB.gci.net) has joined #TWGNSM
   Kman96   Herro!
   Kman96   Goo-biiii!!
   |<--   Kman96 has left irc.nfnet.org (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
   Vera   i hate when people do this
   Vera   even if theyre not playing
   Vera   why am i talking to myself

Also, going to brb for about 20 minutes, so don't join and leave if I don't respond!  I'll be back soon.

[Jub3r7]

Everyone should join the chatroom to discuss.

And Jub3r7, I'm supposing that since the Phase should have ended 40 minuets ago, you went through with the Phase extension?  If so (though, this is probably obvious), please post when the Phase will end today (or tomorrow, if you're especially kind) as soon as possible!

My bad!
The phase will end at 1 AM EST on Saturday.

[Mashi]

Vera   verm should i post that post
   Vera   where i accuse you
   Vermilionvermin   if you think im a wuff
   Vera   or should i save it for tomorrow since day phase is short and we dont have enough time to argue
   universe-X   post it
   universe-X   we'll have enough time
   Vermilionvermin   post it
   Vera   Well, you all will, but I have to leave in an hour and a half or so.
   Vera   But okay.
   universe-X   argue it out now, I guess.

okay srs posting time
I'm going to go ahead and accuse vermilionvermin and blueflower999 (not so sure about him, but I'll explain why).

Let's begin with vermilionvermin!

So when we began discussing the game (Both pre and during Night 1, I believe), we resolved that the Wolves would most likely be active, but not lead lynches.  However, I do not think this is true for all Players.  More experienced or unconventional Players who would believe that others would base their deductions on this would certainly do the opposite of what was expected and be more accusatory.  I feel that vermilionvermin is that type of Player.
Now I'm sure you're saying "wah, mashi, why would he do that if its a cardflip and we would know he was wrong and be suspicious of him".  My answer is that you're all going to be dumb and not be I feel that vermilionvermin is influencing the lynch strongly (and why wouldn't he, after all.  He's an experienced Player, so he naturally knows that people would follow him even though his evidence is dumb and makes no sense.) without seeming to have lead it.  Then there's also to consider that he could use the excuse that Player A was being suspicious, whether through truth or dumb evidence, to exonerate himself.  So this sums up why I think it would be reasonable for a Wolf to lead or greatly influence a lynch and why I think vermilionvermin would be very likely to do so as a Wolf.

Now, further reason I believe vermilionvermin is a Wolf is because he's just acting odd and, in my opinion, even inexperienced-like.  The evidence he brought up is nothing but subpar (especially for his skill level.  And no, being Day 1 is not an excuse, because he shouldn't have been as strong as he was about it at all.) and a result of belief perseverance if anything.  Because, really.  "HE SENT ME A PM TO VERIFY THAT MY ACCUSATION WAS A REACTION TEST AND I THINK A WOLF IS MORE LIKELY TO DO THAT SO HE WOULD CHANGE HIS WOLFING TO UNIVERSE-X.  LET'S FORGET THAT THIS BASED ON PROBABILITY AND THAT HE'S ALMOST AS LIKELY TO DO SO AS A HUMAN AND CALL IT PROOF."  Or "omg spyro was wolfed, mashi would probably do that because spyro is inexperienced and he wouldn't want to wolf universe-x because idk and im going to ignore that there are plenty of players who would also wolf spyro."  And then even "omg guys mashi is acting more silly than usual.  seems wolfish."  Like, really?  And this is practically what started it all too for the other Players.  How does someone act 'more silly than usual'?  When have I ever acted 'more silly than usual' as a Wolf?  When have I ever acted 'more silly than usual' at all?
I understand that I exaggerated the arguments ridiculously (to the point that they don't seem like arguments.  I WONDER WHY.), but, honestly, this is how I'm reading it all.  I have seen nothing substantial against me.  Do any of you even realise what I had done so far in the game before these wild accusations were made?  I had a brief, half-focused discussion about a few Players with vermilionvermin and sent him the PM verifying that he was reaction testing in his accusation (because if he wasn't, we were going to have problems.  Too bad he decided to be dumb and caused them anyway!).  So to sum it up, I did practically absolutely nothing the entire game.  And yet so many of you found evidence of my suspicion?  GJ.

A few of you may think that I'm blowing this suspicion thing over proportions, but when about half the Players of the game agree with ridiculous evidence that an experienced Player is a Wolf (on Day 1 even!) and even contemplate lynching me (and don't even try to argue that I wasn't in danger of being lynched.  No one was discussing about other Players, other suspicions, analysing the wolfing; everything was revolving around this parochial evidence that failed to look at the whole painting.  I said it in the chat yesterday, of course everything will fit together if you focus on two Players in the game.  You'll only see how ridiculous everything is when you look at everyone and witness the intricacies of everything going about with the full picture.  But anyway, moving on.

Now let's move on to blueflower999.
What immediately piqued my interest of him was this post:Which occurred after vermilionvermin revealed that his post was a reaction test.  At this point, there were no posts after vermilionvermin's revelation accusing him of being suspicious.  The post seemed out of place and forceful.  Not to mention that it's vague and unsubstantiated.  I also question when he says "He's behaved this way before."  When?  Behaved in what way?  Reaction testing?  Give me specifics!

blueflower999's evidence against me is also the "Mashi isn't being serious and is being overly silly." and support of vermilionvermin being "He's trying to be helpful." (with all vermilionvermin having done was the reaction test) as said in the chat:
18:40   Blueflower999   Mashi's acting... a littler strange
18:40   universe-X   that could just be Mashi
18:40   Blueflower999   He always acts a bit like this, but now it feels like he's over the top
18:40   universe-X   or Mashi playing dumb as a wolf.
18:40   Blueflower999   I think it's a lot more than usual
18:40   Maestro   I guess, I want to see if it keeps up.
18:40   universe-X   Steering away attention like crazy, but that could just be paranoia.
18:41   Maestro   Mashi's not the paranoid type.
18:41   Blueflower999   Normally Mashi has some long post explaining his reasoning...
18:41   universe-X   I'm talking about my paranoia.
18:41   Blueflower999   Now he has... lots of short posts with "jokes"
18:42   Maestro   True, but then again, nothing has happened.
18:42   universe-X   lol, except for Spyro's wolfing
18:42   Maestro   Although, he didn't react towards sheikah's theory about an experienced wolfing.
18:42   universe-X   and like you said, advanced players would wolf unexperienced ones to throw us off.
18:42   universe-X   and then
18:42   Blueflower999   Well, he does admit he doesn't follow the manti rule...
18:42   universe-X   Slow's almost instant reaction
18:42   universe-X   with "SUCCESS"
18:42   universe-X   I mean,
18:43   universe-X   why would a human post that.
18:43   universe-X   ._.
18:43   Maestro   Like I said, the last time he did stuff like that was when he was a wolf.
18:43   Maestro   And I busted him in the third act.
18:44   universe-X   I'm considering changing my safety to a vote on slow now, lol.
18:45   universe-X   any thoughts on anything, blue?
18:47   Blueflower999   Oh
18:47   Blueflower999   Hmm...
18:48   Blueflower999   I think Slow... was talking about the card flip?
18:48   Blueflower999   It not then... IDK
18:48   Blueflower999   But... he'd know better than to say that if he were a wolf
18:48   Blueflower999   I think he was joking
18:48   universe-X   idk
18:48   Blueflower999   Mashi I'm more suspicious of
18:49   universe-X   maybe he'd know better, but probably not.
18:49   universe-X   and yeah, Mashi's caught my eye too
18:49   universe-X   What do you think of vermillion?
18:49   Blueflower999   He seems normal to me
18:50   Blueflower999   He's not joking around like Mashi is
18:50   Blueflower999   Or at least not as much

His most recent post reiterates what his entire argument so far towards me.  "Mashi is being overly silly and hasn't won the game Day 1.  Totes wuff."


So, I'm not significantly confident about blueflower999, but I'm extremely suspicious of vermilionvermin.  I don't know if he's acting aberrant and eccentric (or if I'm misreading him.  I honestly don't think he would make such outrageous claims of suspicion based on what he deemed as evidence if he were playing at his best.), but right now, he's at the top of my suspicions.  The last of the Day Phase is short though, so I'm probably going to end up saving it for the Night Phase since I want vermilionvermin to defend himself, but idk.

Discuss.

[Mashi]

universe-X   if you're not going to be around later, I suggest making your vote.
   Vera   oh
   Vera   thats a good idea
   Vera   Thanks, I probably would have forgotten!
   universe-X   np

So, umm, safety on SlowPokemon, I suppose.

[vermilionvermin]

So when we began discussing the game (Both pre and during Night 1, I believe), we resolved that the Wolves would most likely be active, but not lead lynches.  However, I do not think this is true for all Players.  More experienced or unconventional Players who would believe that others would base their deductions on this would certainly do the opposite of what was expected and be more accusatory.  I feel that vermilionvermin is that type of Player.

I'd imagine that I wouldn't alter my wolf strategy too much this game.  However, the activity you described is also exactly how I'd play this as a human.  This accusation boils down to arguing that acting like I do as a human is how I'd act is a wolf, and because I'm acting as I would as a human, I'm a wolf.

Now I'm sure you're saying "wah, mashi, why would he do that if its a cardflip and we would know he was wrong and be suspicious of him".  My answer is that you're all going to be dumb and not be I feel that vermilionvermin is influencing the lynch strongly (and why wouldn't he, after all.  He's an experienced Player, so he naturally knows that people would follow him even though his evidence is dumb and makes no sense.) without seeming to have lead it.  Then there's also to consider that he could use the excuse that Player A was being suspicious, whether through truth or dumb evidence, to exonerate himself.  So this sums up why I think it would be reasonable for a Wolf to lead or greatly influence a lynch and why I think vermilionvermin would be very likely to do so as a Wolf.

This paragraph doesn't really make sense.  I think I proved with the Sheikah movement that I'm doing more than just passively supporting the lynch.  It also makes no sense for me to bring up that wolves would act that way, and then act that way myself!  Yeah, theoretically it could be a ploy just so that I could make this defense.  But that relies on me having an elaborate strategy from the start.

Because, really.  "HE SENT ME A PM TO VERIFY THAT MY ACCUSATION WAS A REACTION TEST AND I THINK A WOLF IS MORE LIKELY TO DO THAT SO HE WOULD CHANGE HIS WOLFING TO UNIVERSE-X.  LET'S FORGET THAT THIS BASED ON PROBABILITY AND THAT HE'S ALMOST AS LIKELY TO DO SO AS A HUMAN AND CALL IT PROOF."

A wolf has every motivation to send that PM that a human does, along with the added urgency of deciding a wolfing.  No, it's not a strong argument.  But it was definitely one of the few talking points that we had.  Mashi's overreacting to how much I suspected him.  I wasn't even suspicious enough of him to push for his lynch.

Or "omg spyro was wolfed, mashi would probably do that because spyro is inexperienced and he wouldn't want to wolf universe-x because idk and im going to ignore that there are plenty of players who would also wolf spyro."

I think this was probably the strongest point against you.  Many other non-Mashi (or U-X!) wolves would have had an incentive to wolf you, me, or U-X in order to influence the lynch that way.  Spyro's a pretty curious wolfing.  Why would the wolves avoid it?  I'm not sure.  To be fair, there are other possibilities out there, like the wolves trying to influence the lynch towards you for not U-X.

And then even "omg guys mashi is acting more silly than usual.  seems wolfish."  Like, really?  And this is practically what started it all too for the other Players.  How does someone act 'more silly than usual'?  When have I ever acted 'more silly than usual' as a Wolf?  When have I ever acted 'more silly than usual' at all?

I never said that I supported that argument.  The closest I said to supporting it was that I would look into whether or not there was a correlation between Mashi joking and being a wolf.  I didn't do a whole great big search, but in the last two wolf games I played with him it didn't seem like he joked that much in the thread.  He did outside the thread, but he always jokes in chats.

As a side note, I'm inclined to agree that Sheikah isn't likely a wolf based on his reaction.   Mashi's seemed human in the chat he, u-x, and I are having right now.

I am slightly suspicious of blueflower because his accusation of Mashi fits the archetype of a wolf who's pushing but not leading lynches.  If I can't find a better target by phase end, I'll switch to blueflower.

Right now, way too many people are seeming human to me.  Slow, blueflower, and dude are the three people I'd be most inclined to lynch today because I have no opinion on them.  Not in that order though.

[Mashi]

#TWGNSM
   Vermilionvermin   people who I'm neutral on atm: Mashi, Slow, Bubbles, Dude, Blueflower, FSM
   Vera   oh wait im being overly silly
   Maestro   Yeah, usually a wolf won't commit suicide unless the rest of the game is against him.
   Vera   oh no i must be a wolf
   Vera   wat
   universe-X   I'm pretty sure FSM is human
   Vermilionvermin   oh wait i didn't mean to put fsm in there
   universe-X   lol
   Vermilionvermin   well
   Vermilionvermin   kind of
   Vera   why do we think fsm is human
   Vermilionvermin   I don't want to lynch him today because I think he'll give himself away if he's a wolf
   universe-X   the whole language barrier and shit's sorta aiding whatever human aspects I'm giving him
   Vera   "why do we think fsm is human"
   Vera   look at me i have a language barrier
   universe-X   and if he's anything like me, there's no wolf partner dictating his actions like someone suggested
   universe-X   he's just spazzy
   Maestro   I have no opinion of FSM at the moment.
   Vermilionvermin   Most wolf partners aren't overbearing
   universe-X   And like verm said anyways, he'll end up killing himself otherwise
   Vera   how
   universe-X   yeah, they aren't, but I'd figure in a 2 on all like this, that would be the case
   universe-X   If he's a wolf, he'll find a way to kill himself.
   Vermilionvermin   People seemed to think that he posted whatever was on his mind at the time
   Maestro   I don't know, he strikes me as the type of player to follow the more experienced wolf.
   universe-X   It doesn't seem like he's following anything as of now.
   Vermilionvermin   Mashi, what do you think of fsm?
   Vera   Umm.
   Vermilionvermin   This is just my perception of him, which might be completely off, but I don't think a less-experienced player would defend non-wolf partners
   Vermilionvermin   *a less-experienced wolf
   Vera   From what I remember of him, he said something like "Mashi, was the log faked." or something.
   Vera   And I found it silly.
   Vera   Which was like how he was playing as a Seer.
   Vera   And I would imagine that he would be more audacious and reckless as a Wolf.
   Vera   But idk.
   Vermilionvermin   Which could either be indicative of his playstyle as a humansided player, a powerful role, or just normal him.
   Maestro   But as a wolf, he'd go for a stronger player.
   Vermilionvermin   The one which stood out to me was the one right after my fake accusation where he was pretty much like "nope"
   Vera   I don't think he's ever been a Wolf.
   Vermilionvermin   Isn't this his second game?
   universe-X   Yep
   Vermilionvermin   or third?
   Maestro   This is his second game.
   Maestro   He doesn't exactly think through his actions or comments.
   Maestro   If he were a wolf, I'd think he'd go after a skilled player, like Mashi.
   Vermilionvermin   Really?
   Vermilionvermin   That's like the opposite of how I played as an inexperienced wolf.
   Vermilionvermin   I was a lone wolf my second game, and I immediately wolfed the strongest players
   Vermilionvermin   and went after the weaker ones
   universe-X   That's how I played when i first started
   universe-X   but not as a wolf lol
   Maestro   His first game he was a seer, and Mashi and, Wry I think, helped him along.
   Vermilionvermin   Mashi probably knows him better than the rest of us then
   Maestro   Exactly.
   Vera   Has Spyro even posted yet?
   Vermilionvermin   he's dead
   Vera   o
   Vera   lol
   Maestro   Just his death post.
   Vera   Whoops.
   Vermilionvermin   We have to keep in mind that the more experienced wolf probably approved the wolfing
   Maestro   I think we're dealing with two experienced wolves here.
   Vermilionvermin   So who FSM might have wolfed doesn't really work as a way to analyze him
   Maestro   Lokking at this roster, most of the players have a good number of games under their belts.
   universe-X   Honestly, idk why we're still focusing on FSM lol
   Vermilionvermin   If you're a wolf u-x, I'd say he's your partner
   Vermilionvermin   but I don't think you're a wolf
   universe-X   I figured that'd be the accusation
   universe-X   but I'm just saying
   universe-X   if he's a wolf,
   Vera   Why's that, vermilionvermin?
   universe-X   there's not much to worry about
   Vera   Why do you think Universe-X is Human, I mean?
   universe-X   (people who defend others are more likely to undergo that sorta suspicion)
   universe-X   oh
   universe-X   lol
   Vermilionvermin   He was the first to say he didn't like the accusation against u-x and you
   Vermilionvermin   let me find why in the log
   Vermilionvermin   i remember it being b/c of the log he had w/ maestro
   Vera   You mean because he's suspicious of me???
   universe-X   I didn't like it cuz it was sorta absurd.
   Vera   you mean sort of like what i thought
   Vera   and why i sent you the pm, verm???
   universe-X   Wait wat
   universe-X   I'm confused.
   Vera   I'm making sarcastic remarks.
   Vermilionvermin   U-X I think is human because I think the wolves would be more familiar with the people playing
   universe-X   dammit mashi, lol
   Maestro   I've got to go in about 5 minutes.
   Vermilionvermin   19:51 vermilionvermin With a Spyro wolfing, I think they went through the player list and eliminated people rather than selecting spyro
   Vera   Because I found vermilionvermin's evidence against me as ridiculous.
   Vermilionvermin   I don't think u-x and I ever talked about you
   Vermilionvermin   and I think his accusation was mainly based on the joking
   universe-X   Yeah, it was
   Vera   because im being overly silly right
   Vera   A+
   universe-X   but of course, now I'm having second thoughts.
   Vera   Sure you are.
   universe-X   lol, you're right
   universe-X   idk, I've got sort of a gut feeling against you, Mashi.
   Vera   Everyone does here.
   Vermilionvermin   Mashi, your reaction to all of this is a lot more suspicious than anything against you beforehand
   Vera   Cool.
   Vera   Do you know what this reminds me of?
   Vera   This one game with Sauce.
   Vera   Where he found every little thing I did and said as suspicious.
   Vermilionvermin   I don't think any of us was considering you as a lynch suspect
   Vera   And he made radical expla- are you serious
   Vermilionvermin   idk i wasn't going to lynch you
   universe-X   LOL
   Vera   is that why you were so fervently suspicious of me
   Vera   is that why im number 1 on your suspicion list
   Vermilionvermin   I wasn't ready to lynch you day 1
   Vera   is that why i was the center stage of suspicions of everyone
   Vermilionvermin   I haven't even made a suspicion list!
   Vera   You may not have been, but I'm sure everyone else was!
   Vera   The thing you posted before.
   Vera   Vermilionvermin   1. Mashi 2. SlowPokemon 3. shadowkirby 4. MaestroUGC 5. Dude 6. blueflower999 7. FSM 8. vermillionvermin 9. universe-x 10. Spyro 11. the_last_sheikah
   Vermilionvermin   that was the player list
   Maestro   That's the list of players.
   Vera   o
   Vera   lol
   Vera   whoops
   universe-X   
   universe-X   lol, caaalm down Mashi
   Vermilionvermin   it just so happens that a lot of the people at the end weren't very suspicious
   Vera   I probably should have noticed with you not being last.
   Vera   And I find it difficult to do so.
   Vera   When I find people are being so ridiculous.
   Vera   I'm really exasperated at vermilionvermin.
   Vermilionvermin   Why?
   Vera   i wonder why
   Vera   is it because
   Vera   you brought up ridiculous evidence
   Vera   and stated your significant suspicion on me
   Vera   based on it all???
   Vera   naaah
   Vermilionvermin   I still don't think it was ridiculous to want to hear you defend yourself on that
   Vera   I did.
   Vera   And you still were suspicious.
   Vera   And it's difficult to defend against such silly claims.
   Vera   "YOU SENT A PM."
   Vermilionvermin   I still have my eye on you
   Vera   "SPYRO WAS WOLFED."
   Vera   That's understandable.
   Vera   But the way you went around being suspicious of me was so dumb.
   Vermilionvermin   Spyro being wolfed points more to you than anyone else
   Vera   When I was reading the topic.
   Vera   I was expecting you to dismiss the arguments people were making against me.
   Vera   Since they made no sense.
   Vera   But then you supported them.
   Vera   And I was like
   Vermilionvermin   well if i said i wasn't very suspicious then it wouldn't have gotten to you
   Vera   "what"
   Vermilionvermin   I didn't
   Vera   Mhm.
   Vera   Sure.
   Vermilionvermin   I didn't say you were suspicious because of the joking
   Vermilionvermin   I said I'd look into it
   Vermilionvermin   which means I'd look for some sort of correlation between you joking and your role
   universe-X   ^same technique i was trying to use
   universe-X   it's all psychology
   universe-X   and deception
   universe-X   blah
   universe-X   I don't think verm made that much of a claim against you though >.>
   universe-X   not as much as I did, at least.
   Vera   He seemed pretty serious and radical in the chat!
   Vermilionvermin   i wanted to talk to you
   Vermilionvermin   there wasn't much else to talk about
   Vera   Because none of you sought after anything else to talk about.
   universe-X   Also, about the Spyro wolfing
   Vermilionvermin   it was only mildly suspicious, but moreso than against everyone else
   universe-X   it could've just as well been Dude.
   Maestro   It's hard to get a read on Dude because he's never here.
   Vera   Why's that, Universe-X?
   universe-X   Dude, from what I see, has enough baggage under his TWG time to make such a wolfing.
   universe-X   "the noob wolfing' or whatever it's called.
   Maestro   Well, I've got to go.
   universe-X   And could just as easily stir us off like that.
   universe-X   Alrighty
   Vera   Bye, Maestro.
   Maestro   I'll be back in a few hours.
   universe-X   See ya.
   |<--   Maestro has left irc.nfnet.org (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
   Vermilionvermin   I don't think Dude's lack of time would influence him to make a wolfing like that
   Vermilionvermin   When I was a wolf with him he let me decide the wolfing
   Vermilionvermin   that was my first game on nsm
   universe-X   lolwut
   Vermilionvermin   i'm not sure if i'd told him i'd played before
   Vera   Hahahaha.
   Vera   I remember that game.
   Vera   It was A+.
   Vermilionvermin   That game was a lot of fun.
   Vermilionvermin   Unfortunately, I don't have the PM's from that game
   Vermilionvermin   But I don't think dude was paying attention at all.
   universe-X   If you're a wolf, you can probably ask the host of that game for them.
   Vermilionvermin   Like he didn't send in a seering, and got lynched for inactivity day 1
   Vermilionvermin   Mashi was the host of that game
   universe-X   lol
   Vermilionvermin   idk if he still has the PM's because it was a while ago
   Vermilionvermin   and i'm not sure i sent all of them to him
   Vermilionvermin   i forget that frequently
   Vermilionvermin   jub didn't get my logs before i posted them in the thread
   universe-X   I just realized
   universe-X   Jub didn't provide us with a story yet.
   universe-X   
   universe-X   guys, what's your opinion on blue?
   Vera   20:46 vermilionvermin I'm not convinced by your defense
   Vera   20:46 vermilionvermin but it's given me enough doubt that I don't think it'd be prudent to lynch you right now
   Vera   see you were gonna linch mii!!!!!!!!!!!
   Vermilionvermin   
   Vera   
   universe-X   wut
   Vera   so if i decided to play ib for a day longer
   Vera   i would be dead
   Vera   thx verm
   Vermilionvermin   nope
   Vermilionvermin   you probs wouldn't have been lynched
   Vermilionvermin   i didn't even think it was suspicious enough to vote for you!
   Vera   do we even do that at llf
   universe-X   GUISE
   universe-X   WUT
   universe-X   DO YOU
   Vermilionvermin   do wht
   universe-X   THINK OF
   Vera   voting for people before they post a defence
   universe-X   BLUE
   Vera   i made a post
   Vera   with accusations
   Vera   but i didnt post it because day was ending soon
   Vera   but idk
   Vermilionvermin   I think we do
   Vera   lol
   Vera   he seems pretty flowery
   Vera   like
   Vermilionvermin   but because it was you I didn't want to b/c you're valuable and a pal
   Vera   a flower thats the colour blue
   Vermilionvermin   I think I remember being neutral on him
   Vermilionvermin   because "everything he said could be said by a wolf" or something like that
   universe-X   bleh, I feel bad about nit-picking
   universe-X   but blue seems a tid bit more suspicious than mashi
   universe-X   NOWAI
   universe-X   lemme read the logs again real quick lol
   Vermilionvermin   I don't think blue is actively suspicious, but I'm not convinced he's human
   Vermilionvermin   same w/ slow and dude
   Vermilionvermin   though the latter two are somewhat different in that I haven't seen much from either
   Vermilionvermin   and blueflower was in that one chat
   Vera   verm should i post that post
   Vera   where i accuse you
   Vermilionvermin   if you think im a wuff
   Vera   or should i save it for tomorrow since day phase is short and we dont have enough time to argue
   universe-X   post it
   universe-X   we'll have enough time
   Vermilionvermin   post it
   Vera   Well, you all will, but I have to leave in an hour and a half or so.
   Vera   But okay.
   universe-X   argue it out now, I guess.
   Vermilionvermin   I found undeniable proof that Blueflower is human
   universe-X   unless you need this time to post
   universe-X   Show me
   Vermilionvermin   Mikuru is considered one of the most beautiful girls in the school by many of the male students, and was once even described as "an untouchable flower on the mountain".
   Vermilionvermin   according to wikipedia
   Vera   lol
   Vera   A+
   universe-X   lol
   Vermilionvermin   mikuru is a human role
   universe-X   That's not necessarily undeniable proof
   Vera   NO TURNING BACK NOW.
   universe-X   It could just as much be a false claim sorta thing.
   Vermilionvermin   true, mikuru could be a white flower
   Vermilionvermin   or a red flower
   Vera   mikuru has red-brown hair does that count
   Vermilionvermin   mashi, did you have that post already typed out?
   Vera   Yes.
   Vera   I told you, I had it prepared.
   Vermilionvermin   why didn't you post it earlier?
   Vera   But didn't want to post it, because Day Phase was ending soon.
   Vermilionvermin   oh phase was ending soon
   Vermilionvermin   right
   Vermilionvermin   let me look at it then
   Vermilionvermin   i don't think we discussed the game pre-night 1
   Vera   I think we mentioned the cardflip.
   Vera   And how it would affect the game.
   Vera   Such as Wolves' performance.
   Vera   But idk.
   Vera   Memory's hazy about that.
   Vermilionvermin   I think that was night 1
   Vermilionvermin   anyway
   Vera   We definitely did discuss that point though
   Vera   .
   Vermilionvermin   "More experienced or unconventional Players who would believe that others would base their deductions on this would certainly do the opposite of what was expected and be more accusatory. I feel that vermilionvermin is that type of Player."
   Vermilionvermin   I would definitely do that as a wolf
   Vera   
   Vermilionvermin   "without seeming to have lead it."
   Vermilionvermin   wait what
   Vermilionvermin   that's not what I'm doing
   Vermilionvermin   I'm pretty sure I lead the sheikah lynch
   Vera   But I'm more experienced.
   Vermilionvermin   I'm confused by your second paragraph
   Vera   So you would jus- oh i think i forgot to mention the_last_sheikah before
   Vera   was that the one where i exaggerate your argument and make it sound silly
   Vermilionvermin   It seems to say that I as a wolf, would lead lynches, but I'm not leading any right now, so I'm a wolf.
   Vera   You would lead it, but behind the scenes, is what I mean.
   Vera   Like the puppeteer pulling all the strings!!!
   Vermilionvermin   I don't think that's what I'm doing at all.
   Vera   idk
   Vermilionvermin   Posting an accusation about sheikah doesn't really jive with that idea!
   Vera   I was really mad when I made this post.
   Vera   It was you accusing me.
   Vera   Because you went along with everyone else's suspicions of me.
   Vermilionvermin   No I didn't!
   Vera   wat
   Vera   Yes, you did!
   Vermilionvermin   Everyone else was talking about your joking
   Vermilionvermin   which I think several times i said didn't factor in to my suspicion
   Vera   And then you became suspicious of me because they were suspicious of me!
   Vermilionvermin   no, i had my own reasons
   Vermilionvermin   I became suspicious of you because I was talking about you w/ Maestro
   Vera   silly reasons*
   Vera   universe-x you should react too
   universe-X   wat
   Vera   to the post
   universe-X   reading it now
   universe-X   lol, my reaction right now:
   universe-X   you were definitely mad while making this post.
   Vera   Hahahaha.
   universe-X   if you're not going to be around later, I suggest making your vote.
   Vera   oh
   Vera   thats a good idea
   Vera   Thanks, I probably would have forgotten!
   universe-X   np
   Vera   Though, I wouldn't be surprised if I were lynched anyway for the post.
   universe-X   Me neither.
   universe-X   Maybe I'm being a bit laggy in the head
   universe-X   but to me it seems like suspicions about you were lighting up just about now.
   Vera   cool
   Vera   If this turns out like most games, vermilionvermin and I are both going to be Humans.
   Vera   And we're going to be like
   Vera   "that was stupid"
   Vera   Well, that mostly happens with Sauce and me.
   Vera   idk
   universe-X   lol, that's in the back of my mind right now
   universe-X   and I hope that's not the case
   universe-X   but it's there in theory.
   Vermilionvermin   I am always wrong about sauce
   Vera   Also, mother said we would probably need to leave in like 48 minutes or something.
   universe-X   I sorta narrowed my suspicions down to 5 people.
   universe-X   maybe 4.
   universe-X   verm, mashi, dude, blue, and bubbles
   universe-X   and bubbles of course is the least suspicious
   universe-X   and I'm probably more inclined to vote blue more than anyone right now
   Vera   idk
   Vera   It's Day 1.
   universe-X   lol, yeah
   Vera   It's silly to narrow suspicions.
   Vera   You should focus on everyone.
   Vera   UNLIKE HOW YOU FOCUSED ON ME.
   Vera   
   universe-X   I analyzed everyone
   universe-X   as much as a Day 1 analysis could go
   universe-X   should I post my thoughts?
   Vera   Sure.
   Vermilionvermin   Blueflower being a wolf could explain the spyro wolfing
   universe-X   Also
   Vera   
   universe-X   vera why safety on blue?
   universe-X   *slow
   universe-X   why safety on slow?
   Vera   Because he's a Wolf Partner with me, duh.
   universe-X   k
   Vermilionvermin   He definitely is pushing for Mashi's lynch
   Vermilionvermin   which would explain why the wolves didn't wolf u-x if mashi isn't a wolf
   Vermilionvermin   or u-x
   Vera   I don't see why Wolves would have to change the wolfing because of your accusation.
   universe-X   Same.
   universe-X   a noob vote is a noob vote.
   universe-X   Accusations only add spice to the game, not to the wolfing
   Vermilionvermin   I think that they might want to influence the lynch
   Vera   I think it's just as likely for them to have just wolfed Spyro from randomness, desire to be unpredictable, not following Manti Rule, etc.
   Vera   They wouldn't be able to predict the lynch.
   Vera   And wouldn't even feel to bother.
   Vera   I don't even understand your logic for wolfing Universe-X, frankly.
   Vermilionvermin   Mine?
   Vera   Yes.
   Vermilionvermin   I think that people might want to wolf him for a variety of reasons
   universe-X   wat
   Vermilionvermin   maybe to incriminate you
   Vermilionvermin   maybe they thought avoiding wolfing him would incriminate you
   Vermilionvermin   arguments could be made either way
   Vera   Universe-X, do you follow vermilionvermin's logic for this???
   Vermilionvermin   It depends a lot on whether or not the wolves thought I was serious
   Vermilionvermin   which was why I didn't like the PM
   Vera   But your premise is that the Wolves would even care about the accusation.
   Vera   What if they didn't even see it?
   universe-X   That sorta logic is like trying to prove a negative.
   Vermilionvermin   It's possible they didn't
   universe-X   However, vera, I don't think they'd be jumpy enough to make a vote without seeing what people have to say first.
   Vera   Sure.
   Vermilionvermin   but spyro's just completely out of left field
   Vera   But then they would be following vermilionvermin's logic.
   Vera   And not their own.
   Vera   I don't even see how I'm likely to have wolfed Spyro either.
   Vermilionvermin   well, a few reasons
   Vermilionvermin   first, if you thought i might have been serious, then you'd have wanted to stay away from wolfing me or u-x
   Vera   No.
   Vera   I don't even understand your logic with this.
   Vermilionvermin   because wolfing any one of the three of us puts a spotlight on the other two
   Vera   If anything, I may have been even more likely to cause more controversy.
   Vera   Precisely.
   Vermilionvermin   well, it depends on how people look at it
   Vermilionvermin   it defeats my theory that mashi and u-x were wolves
   Vermilionvermin   which, if you were wolves and thought my argument was a reaction test, would mean you would want to stay away from wolfing u-x or me
   Vermilionvermin   alternatively
   Vermilionvermin   if the wolves were neither of you and thought that my argument was a reaction test, they would want to wolf one of us three
   Vermilionvermin   to make it seem like that one of you two did to kill off the theory
   universe-X   Or
   universe-X   the wolves killed spyro
   universe-X   to throw everyone off
   universe-X   despite this reaction test
   Vera   i like universe-x's explanation best
   universe-X   which seems to be the case.
   Vermilionvermin   it's entirely possible that the wolves ignored this completely
   Vera   then why are you so firm in your resolve about the wolfing
   Vermilionvermin   because i thought it was super clever and i was hoping it would work
   Vermilionvermin   
   universe-X   just like it's possible that the wolves are using it to play on the controversy in this game.
   Vermilionvermin   that was why I was frustrated at the beginning. if people believed it, it would have been much easier to learn from it.
   Vera   Plot Twist:
   Vera   There are no Wolves.
   Vermilionvermin   Now it's way too much reverse psychology
   Vermilionvermin   brb i need to find my dog
   Vera   i blame verm verm
   Vermilionvermin   nvm there she is
   Vera   and his little dog too
   Vera   o nvm
   universe-X   I think it's safe to throw any reaction from the reaction test away.
   universe-X   Cuz that didn't work for shit.
   Vera   lol
   Vera   It caused.
   Vera   All of this.
   universe-X   Exactly.
   universe-X   However
   universe-X   arguments made after the wolfing
   universe-X   could be of some analytical use.
   universe-X   wow, analytical's not a word.
   Vermilionvermin   but i think all of this is good
   Vera   ya
   universe-X   I don't see how
   Vera   Analytic
   universe-X   cuz I'm confused as fuck.
   Vermilionvermin   We got to talk a lot
   Vermilionvermin   about something
   Vermilionvermin   even if it was confusing as hell
   Vera   There's no point in talking.
   Vera   If we run around in circles.
   Vermilionvermin   I'm pretty sure neither of you are wolves
   universe-X   There really wasn't.
   Vera   wat
   Vera   why
   universe-X   lol, ok, it helped verify your suspicions at least.
   Vermilionvermin   You've just seemed human I guess?
   universe-X   Good lord verm
   universe-X   no
   universe-X   nononono
   universe-X   o gosh no
   Vermilionvermin   ?
   universe-X   lol, it's like
   universe-X   you two have been pressing each other
   universe-X   to verify your beliefs and suspicions
   universe-X   and now you think we're human
   universe-X   and you back it up with that.
   universe-X   nonononono
   Vera   remember when i said i would need to leave at 7pm
   universe-X   Yes.
   Vermilionvermin   it's 630
   Vera   i lied my mother said we were leaving now
   Vermilionvermin   and you need to leave early
   universe-X   lol
   Vermilionvermin   k
   Vera   lol
   Vera   
   Vera   i need to leave a witty comment though
   universe-X   ilu
   Vermilionvermin   If you want a more detailed explanation of why I think you're human, I can look for specific lines
   Vera   ilv
   Vera   Oh, also.
   Vera   If any of you are up at like 12AM.
   Vera   Chances are that I'll be back home by then.
   Vermilionvermin   i will be
   Vermilionvermin   that's 9 pm here
   Vera   Yay.
   Vera   
   Vera   Oh, yeah, time zones.
   Vera   I always forget about that.
   Vera   But anyway, byeeee.
   Vermilionvermin   I missed part of this log
   Vera   [Insert witty comment here]
   Vera   oh
   Vermilionvermin   stupid mibbit
   Vera   i can post it

[universe-X]

1. Mashi
2. SlowPokemon
3. bubbles
4. MaestroUGC
5. Dude
6. blueflower999
7. FSM
8. vermillionvermin
9. universe-x
10. the_last_sheikah
11. Spyro

So we're down to 10 people and it's day 1, and this is how I see the list right now. Reds are particularly heavy suspicions, purple are regular suspicions, oranges are just lackluster in suspicion, but I still have my eye on them.

And it must be obvious that I'm freakin' confused because my purples are quite contradictory to what's been going on.

I was gonna make this really analytic post whilst conversing with verm and mashi, but I forgot about what I was gonna say.
Except for this- the reaction test, in my opinion, should be disregarded. It didn't help for shit. In fact, I think it may have just made us more confused in the IRC room (except for verm who says he believes Mashi and I are human, so he came to somewhat of a conclusion, I guess).

Mashi- I'm suspicious of you, partly because of a weird gut feeling. My other parts say that you reacted a little too angry at that post and I could be backwards about this, but it just seemed a bit too much to me. Especially in how quick you were to call all of us out on following a bandwagon suspicion. But hey, I'm just reiterating earlier suspicions about "the way you talk", and because that's really not a valid argument to make, I'm leaving you at purple. o not only that, but the whole Spyro wolfing thing could have been you because of the manti rule (if that means "take out the weak", I didn't feel like looking it up). However, that could've easily been you, or Maestro, or Dude, or verm, or even me. So I'll leave you at purple.

Vermillion- What the hell man, lol. Okay, I'm more suspicious about you than Mashi at this point. After that log, I'd probably say that the reaction test you made was to try and steer away attention from you, if anything. There are 4 possible standards of reaction on the wolves' part that we discussed:

Hypothetical/Night 1 theories
1) If either Mashi or I were wolves, we wouldn't wolf the other or you because that would lead to suspicion on our parts as wolves.
2) If neither of us were wolves, then the wolves would've wolfed one of us in order to make suspicion of the other. And I don't see how that would work out, because there would be a clusterfuck of mixed feelings about that.

Realistic/Day 1 theories
3) The wolves didn't see the accusation before sending in a wolf for Spyro.
4) The wolves did see it and wolfed Spyro to throw everyone off, which seems to be the most likely to happen, to me at least. Because it definitely threw us off and into this loop of "Screw you!" "No, screw you!" and it was just really unnecessary.

Not only that, but for all I know, you could've been actually accusing us of something to steer away attention (as a wolf)(as absurd as your propagation was) and then you backed away from it once Mashi and I pointed out how weird that post was. A cop-out, in essence, which I still believe to be a distinct possibility. And obviously from the log, you even went as far enough to say that we were humans. Not to mention, you also made quick accusations in the log (i.e. "that came off as wolfy" when I started to support someone), which ironically enough, came off as wolfy to me. However, these could all be human gestures as well, so I'm leaving you at purple.

blueflower999- Despite discussions and stuff, I do think you're a bit more on the wolfy side when you go so quick to claim Mashi as a wolf with that paltry justification post. However, I can't be too hard on you, considering I pulled that type of reasoning on you in the first place. Maybe I should leave you at purple, but I'm too tired.

FSM- I believe you are human, simply because the whole language barrier and stuff would show us that you're a wolf. But hey, I could be wrong and you might prove it to us yourself if that's the case. It is only Day 1 anyways.

sheikah- I believe you to be human as well, simply because of easily you were going to offer yourself like that. And if you're human, I wouldn't want you suiciding like that, especially when it's not a 2 on 10 and with stakes (and confusion) like this, it's fairly easy for the human party to decrease.

Just my 2¢.

[universe-X]

safety on verm for now.