TWG XXXIV: Minecraft

[Mashi]

jake   vera
   jake   get over here
   jake   why did you try to wolf me?
   jake   hmmmmm?
   Vera   Hmm?
   jake   you know what you did.
   Vera   because youre a good player duh
   jake   too bad I had a red rose
   Vera   oh nooo
   jake   yeah
   Vera   im cawt
   jake   that just happened
   jake   sorry I'm going to have to lynch you now
   Vera   noooooooo
   jake   why am I op and you're not
   jake   that doesn't make sense
   Vera   idk
   Vera   I logged in.
   Vera   But the channel didn't auto-op me.
   Vera   And I don't know why.
   jake   I'm not even logged in
   Vera   Oh.
   jake   I don't think I have a username
   Vera   Wrong channel, looooooool.
   Vera   #TWGNSM
   Vera   That explains a lot.
   jake   what
   Vera   That was the original channel.
   Vera   Which is registered.
   Vera   This channel isn;t.
   Vera   isn't*
   jake   Which one will other people join when I pester them to get on the chat?
   Vera   This one.
   Vera   I'll post in the topic to join the other one though.
   jake   ok
   Vera   My mistake!
   jake   can't we just use this one
   jake   less confusion
   Vera   No, because I'm not op in this one.

[jake3343]

to sheikah:

Is it announced when a Player is infected?

[Mashi]

Jake's accusations are false, because I'm the Seer.
Discuss.

[Mashi]

jake   Vera now I have to make a huge post thanks a lot
   jake   be back in 234213421 hours
   Zunawe   Lol
   Vera   You're welcome.

[jake3343]

Ok, since mashi has left me no other choice, I must say that I am the seer. I kind realized that I made it obvious to mashi that I was the seer, but he wanted me to tell everyone and I didn't want to and now he's forcing me too. What a jerk.

Anyway, Mashi is a wolf and you should all vote for him. Here's why:

1. I seer'd him red. I know that I said seers are unreliable and all (and they are), but it becomes a little bit more reliable due to point two:

2. I saw Mashi sending a message. I don't usually like to use "Who's Online" as evidence, but I think that it narrows things down quite well here. I seer'd Mashi red, and because paintings happen before seerings, Mashi must be either a wolf or a miller. Now why would a miller (who believes he is a normal human), be sending a message? Unless he can explain whom he pm'd, it's quite likely it was a wolf-related pm (in couldn't be because he's blue because it's impossible for a blue to be seer'd red at this point in the game).

3. The whole "Mashi's reaction was suspicious" thing. Mashi keeps saying this is nothing, but I disagree. Right after day 1 began, I went to the chat and asked Mashi why he wolfed me. He said "Hmmm?" followed by something like "because you're a good player" Mashi posted exact quote above. Go read them. Now, notice how at first, he does not seem to be joking around. I think that he probably hadn't seen the update (since I asked him pretty much as soon as day began, like literally less than a minute after), and didn't know that I hadn't actually died, but knew I was targeted because he's a wolf, so he thought I was postmortemly (is that a word?) asking for an explanation for why I was chosen. As soon as he realizes I'm still alive, he switches to joking-around mode.

4. Lastly, the way Mashi has been dealing with this whole situation is very, very wolf-like, like how he claimed seer just to get me to claim seer. If he were a human, why would he force the seer to out himself to everyone? He knows the dangers of zombie as we discussed in the chat last night, but he forces me to reveal myself anyway.

Mashi is clearly the best choice as to whom to vote for. Even if my evidence isn't foolproof (which is isn't, of course), Mashi is undeniably the most likely to be wolf. I seer'd him red, which means he has a 60% chance of being a wolf, which is much higher than the chance of catching a wolf if we just randomly lynch. Unless some incredibly incriminating evidence arises before tomorrow night, Mashi is the best choice for lynching.

[Mashi]

1. Okay, this is reasonable.
2. Yes, because all PMs are related to TWG and only Wolves send PMs.  You neglect to consider that I may have been PMing for reasons other than TWG (I PMed Jub3r7 today, for example) and that I may be a Human asking about Game Mechanics.
3. This isn't evidence.  It's subjective and based on jake's interpretation of my behaviour.  If any of you know me at all, you would know that I joke around frequently.  Analysing linguistics to fit one's accord is frivolous and fallacious.
4. Vera   jake, when do you plan to reveal your original suspicions of me?
   jake   Probably night 2
   jake   day 2 at the latest
   Vera   When do you plan to lynch me?
   jake   day 1
   Zunawe   Lol
   Vera   Okay, now I really can't take you seriously at all.
   Zunawe   I bet he votes to lynch you, but I don't know what happens after.
   jake   "he" and "you"
   Vera   I think I'm going to participate in shenanigans.
   jake   which is which
   Vera   And possibly ruin jake's plan!!!
   Zunawe   We're all gonna laugh so hard at the end if he's right.
   Zunawe   he is jake
   jake   I AM
   Zunawe   I love shenanigans. . . They're so universal.
   jake   vera do you think I'm a wolf
   Vera   Not particularly.
   jake   cool
   Zunawe   I think you're a human, jake. Not sure what to say about Vera. . . still. . .
   Vera   Jake, if you're going to vote for me, I'm demanding that you post your reasons in a reasonable amount of time.
   jake   demand denied
   Zunawe   Lol. What can he post? "He responded suspiciously."
   jake   I probably will end up posting it when people inevitably don't trust me
   Zunawe   Nobody's said anything about me yet. I'm curious.
   jake   You seem human I guess.
   jake   don't really have to much of an opinion
   jake   yet
   Zunawe   I guess that's fine for now.
   Zunawe   God I have curse! Haunter shall die for that.
   Zunawe   hate*
   Vera   ZUNAWE!
   Vera   Shenanigans are about to ensue.
   Vera   Are you prepared?
   Zunawe   Umm. . . what?
   jake   PREPARE FOR BATTLE
   Zunawe   Go DRATINI!
   Vera   http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4526.msg154155#msg154155
   Zunawe   Huh. . .
   jake   Vera now I have to make a huge post thanks a lot
   jake   be back in 234213421 hours
   Zunawe   Lol
   Vera   You're welcome.
   jake   you're still gonna be lynched though
   Zunawe   Lol
   Vera   You could just say you're the Seer and I can retract what I said.
   jake   I'M THE SEER

Vera   hey jake should i claim seer to the thread since i think youre the seer
   jake   why would you
   Vera   Because if you're the Seer, you would no choice but to counterclaim and reveal that your primary suspicion of me was a Red seering result.
   jake   except it isn't
   Vera   Then you should have no problem revealing your primary suspicions.
   Vera   And when I say that, I mean Day 1 and not like 2 minutes before the Phase ends.
   jake   fine vera, you win, I'm the seer
   Vera   
   jake   what, are you being serious?
   jake   I wasn't
   Vera   ya
   jake   LOL GET IT
   Vera   ya
   Vera   im going to claim seer to the thread okay???
   jake   oh you

Yes, I am going to let you lynch me without proper evidence; that makes complete sense.  Not to mention that it's probably better that we do have an alliance; we have 4 Blues, so we have to utilise their abilities to the max.  If we don't, the Seer may seer Blues and therefore waste seerings, the Guardian wouldn't know whom to guard, and the Psychic would have no one to go to in order to reveal his/her results.  Furthermore, by forming an alliance, there will be a group of confirmed Humans who now have a better chance of finding Wolves (since they know all the Blues).  By the time the Zombie is lynched, probability states that the alliance would have served its main function by then.  The Wolves also maybe wouldn't be sure of whom to target in the alliance (presuming that they infect the Seer), because they wouldn't know whom the Guardian would be guarding.  Honestly, I've been thinking this Night 1; the Wolves would probably more likely infect a random Player because the alliance leader would be too obvious.  But I'll go more in depth about this tomorrow, I want to finish this post and go to bed.


Now, reasons that I am Human!

1. jake was wolfed Night 1.  If any of you know me at all, you would all know that I don't enjoy wolfing new or returning Players and that I don't follow the Manti Rule.  Prior to his outrageous accusations (with the only reasonable one being that he seered me Red), I had come to believe that jake was adept at TWG due to his reputation in past games.  I'm sort of changing my mind now, but nevertheless, the primary idea is that I wouldn't wolf jake; he's a returning Player anyway.

2. I was seered Red.  "But wait, Mashi, how does this prove that you're Human?"  An excellent question!  Presuming that I were a Wolf, whom do you believe would be one of the most likely candidates for seering?  That's right, me!  And look, there's a Wolf Painter on my team!  I wonder whom we're going to paint!
So I think that it's reasonable to believe that if I were a Wolf, I probably would paint myself Green.

3. I've been commenting in the chat with jake about the powers of the Zombie and that it should be revealed to the thread when a Player is infected.  I haven't done so as fervently as jake, but I have done so to a reasonable extent.  I would argue with the_last_sheikah just as jake did if he ruled that the infection would not be revealed, since I originally suggested when balancing the game that the Zombie should function similarly to a Brutal.

[jake3343]

2. Yes, because all PMs are related to TWG and only Wolves send PMs.  You neglect to consider that I may have been PMing for reasons other than TWG (I PMed Jub3r7 today, for example) and that I may be a Human asking about Game Mechanics.

Of course, my seeing you pm someone was not at all perfect evidence, I just thought that it added to my seering you red.

3. This isn't evidence.  It's subjective and based on jake's interpretation of my behaviour.

What? Tons of evidence in twg is due to subjective analysis. In a manhunt, all of it is subjective. Unless I'm misreading something, I don't think you mean what you're saying.

If any of you know me at all, you would know that I joke around frequently.  Analysing linguistics to fit one's accord is frivolous and fallacious.

I know that you joke around. I'm saying that I don't think you were. I don't think I was trying to fit your words to make them match my reasoning, but of course I can never be sure. I certainly wasn't consciously doing so.

Yes, I am going to let you lynch me without proper evidence; that makes complete sense.  Not to mention that it's probably better that we do have an alliance; we have 4 Blues, so we have to utilise their abilities to the max.  If we don't, the Seer may seer Blues and therefore waste seerings, the Guardian wouldn't know whom to guard, and the Psychic would have no one to go to in order to reveal his/her results.  Furthermore, by forming an alliance, there will be a group of confirmed Humans who now have a better chance of finding Wolves (since they know all the Blues).

I still don't think that having an alliance would be better than none this early, but I think that the point is unrelated when discussing whether or not you're a wolf.

1. jake was wolfed Night 1.  If any of you know me at all, you would all know that I don't enjoy wolfing new or returning Players and that I don't follow the Manti Rule.  Prior to his outrageous accusations (with the only reasonable one being that he seered me Red), I had come to believe that jake was adept at TWG due to his reputation in past games.  I'm sort of changing my mind now, but nevertheless, the primary idea is that I wouldn't wolf jake; he's a returning Player anyway.

I also dislike the manti rule and feel that it is stupid and should not ever be a reason to lynch someone. I don't see how your not following the manti rule would make you not wolf me, though. In fact, you might be one of the only people to consider me adept (this probably has exceptions), which would make it more likely for you to wolf me, but it seems you've changed your mind about this now. I'm not familiar with your "not wolfing returning players" policy, so I can't really say if it's true or not.

2. I was seered Red.  "But wait, Mashi, how does this prove that you're Human?"  An excellent question!  Presuming that I were a Wolf, whom do you believe would be one of the most likely candidates for seering?  That's right, me!  And look, there's a Wolf Painter on my team!  I wonder whom we're going to paint!
So I think that it's reasonable to believe that if I were a Wolf, I probably would paint myself Green.

Seerings occur before paintings, meaning that even if you did paint yourself night 1, I would still seer you red. This point is null.

3. I've been commenting in the chat with jake about the powers of the Zombie and that it should be revealed to the thread when a Player is infected.  I haven't done so as fervently as jake, but I have done so to a reasonable extent.  I would argue with the_last_sheikah just as jake did if he ruled that the infection would not be revealed, since I originally suggested when balancing the game that the Zombie should function similarly to a Brutal.

I do agree that this is not something a wolf would normally do, but I do don't it is incredibly important in determining one's role one way or another.


I don't pretend to be certain that Mashi is a wolf, but I do think that he is without a doubt the most likely candidate. Mashi said that he was sure that "we can find more suspicious characters this Phase," and if this happens, I would gladly switch my vote off Mashi. I'll still be trying to look for other alternatives to Mashi, but right now he is certainly the person most likely to be a wolf.

[Mashi]

Oh right, I forgot about the painting bit.  the_last_sheikah, Wolf Painter's power are essentially useless if his/her painting power doesn't affect a Player the Phase he/she decides to paint and the power is overpowered if it permanently paints a Player.

Also, evidence is always subjective, but not to the degree that it is for you in my case.  To clarify, chances are that if a good deal of Players are able to agree that a Player is suspicious for whatever reason, the suspicion isn't subjective because there's reasonable evidence, which is objective.  You're arguing about my semantics connoting suspicious behaviour.  Semantics are not evidence when you simply take a perspective that matches your views to support it.

I've told you before that you were supposed to be part of TWC when it originally formed.  Naturally, I would presume that you're an adept Player based on that.  Furthermore, you ignored that I specifically stated that I do not follow the Manti Rule (look at any game in which I've been a Wolf and pay attention to the wolfings if you require proof) and I therefore would not wolf you based on my previous presumptions about you.

[EFitTrainr]

Interesting. How shenaniginiacal.

[Spyro]

So, why was Night 1 before Day 1?

[blueflower999]

(look at any game in which I've been a Wolf and pay attention to the wolfings if you require proof)

1. jake was wolfed Night 1.  If any of you know me at all, you would all know that I don't enjoy wolfing new or returning Players and that I don't follow the Manti Rule.  Prior to his outrageous accusations (with the only reasonable one being that he seered me Red), I had come to believe that jake was adept at TWG due to his reputation in past games.  I'm sort of changing my mind now, but nevertheless, the primary idea is that I wouldn't wolf jake; he's a returning Player anyway.

You wolfed me night one in my first game... 

[Mashi]

Oh, I think I know why we wolfed you that game, blueflower999.  But it may be offensive, so I'm going to pretend that game never occurred!

And Night 1 is always before Day 1 here, Spyro.

[K-NiGhT]

Safety on jake for now.

[Mashi]

By the way, I lied about the TWG Channel name, in case anyone missed it in the chatlog.  Everyone should join #TWGNSM because I'm op there!

[jake3343]

I was talking with Mashi last night at three 3:00AM and he seemed super human. But he was seer'd red and is probably the most likely wolf. I really don't know what to think about him anymore.

But I don't really want to lynch him this phase, so we have find someone better to lynch. If we can't, I guess we can lynch Mashi.