General Pokémon

[mikey]

you're joking right

nah it sounds like seadra

[Nebbles]

Air Balloon would be good in like, doubles since Earthquake. Granted the Pokemon using Earthquake is fast enough to get a hit in, though...

[SlowPokemon]

I will not allow Goodra to be made fun of Goodra is one of my favorite gen VI Pokémon

[JDMEK5]

Not a spread I'd run, but replace Toxic with either Grass Knot or Scald(in case you don't want to miss with Hydro Pump. And slap a Life Orb, Air Balloon or Assault Vest on it. I'd prefer the latter, but AVs are more harder to get.

I can get an AV. But actually its Sp Def right now isn't bad at all. It takes Sp Attacks really nicely actually. Maybe I'll go with the Air Balloon.
Air Balloon simply because this is part of a thing I'm doing with my friends where we are doing our own sort of "Elite 4" thing. Basically the 4 of us form an Elite 4 of our own but we each get to choose our own types and make it as difficult as we can muster. I chose Steel (hence Empoleon) and thus, people are likely going to be coming at me with lots of Ground moves in hand.

So with all being said, the moveset will be:
-Ice beam
-Scald
-Flash Cannon
-Grass Knot

But I'll play with both Air Balloon and Life Orb to see which does more damage in practicality. Thanks fellas.

As I said, I'm building a Steel team but I've only got Empoleon set so far. I'm thinking of using the following:
-Empoleon
-Metagross
-Ferrothorn
-Magnezone (with Air Balloon)
-Aggron
-Bisharp

Thoughts on that?

[Waddle Bro]

I actually laddered quite high with my Steel Bulky Offense OU Monotype team with a 9-1 win ratio I think. It had trouble against Electric and Bulky Water teams.

When teambuilding, I had to create switch-ins to Fighting, Fire and Ground moves. Weakness Policy Mixed Aegislash, Flash Fire Air Balloon Heatran and standard.jpg Skarmory handled the weaknesses respectively and well. I also ran a Frivolous Mega Scizor set(SD+Roost+U-Turn+Bullet Punch), an original Weakness Policy Endure Lucario(although since you're not using Smogon rules, I'd go with a MegaLuke, and finally a Choice Scarf Analytic Magnezone.

[mikey]

I can get an AV. But actually its Sp Def right now isn't bad at all. It takes Sp Attacks really nicely actually. Maybe I'll go with the Air Balloon.
Air Balloon simply because this is part of a thing I'm doing with my friends where we are doing our own sort of "Elite 4" thing. Basically the 4 of us form an Elite 4 of our own but we each get to choose our own types and make it as difficult as we can muster. I chose Steel (hence Empoleon) and thus, people are likely going to be coming at me with lots of Ground moves in hand.

So with all being said, the moveset will be:
-Ice beam
-Scald
-Flash Cannon
-Grass Knot

But I'll play with both Air Balloon and Life Orb to see which does more damage in practicality. Thanks fellas.

As I said, I'm building a Steel team but I've only got Empoleon set so far. I'm thinking of using the following:
-Empoleon
-Metagross
-Ferrothorn
-Magnezone (with Air Balloon)
-Aggron
-Bisharp

Thoughts on that?

You should use sandstorm

[Dude]

My Pokemon team:

[close]

[Nebbles]

Sandstorm would be ideal... if weather wasn't completely nerfed in gen 6. All though you can get 5-8 turns from the Sand Rock or whatever it's called, you only have that many turns on your side unless you keep switching out a Pokemon Sand Stream.

[mikey]

Sandstorm would be ideal... if weather wasn't completely nerfed in gen 6. All though you can get 5-8 turns from the Sand Rock or whatever it's called, you only have that many turns on your side unless you keep switching out a Pokemon Sand Stream.

Yeah doesn't sandstorm increase their defenses by 50%?

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Waddle pretty much covered the main thing, in that physically defensive Rotom is by far the most common. So you need to face a non-defensive Rotom and get it on the switch, otherwise you're gonna get Burned and then Pain Split/Rest'd on and look like a fool.

According to the Pokemon Showdown usage stats, 252 HP/4 Sp. Atk/252 Sp. Def is the most commonly used EV spread (not sure where Waddle's getting 70% for physically defensive Rotom-W). Even with 252 HP/252 Def, Metagross still has a chance to 2HKO (minimum damage is 91.6%).

One of the key values of Trick is that it can let Pokemon stay in on and deal with other Pokemon that would otherwise be a problem. That's uh, kinda what your original argument was for using Iron Ball. If Metagross has to use up both an item slot and a move slot for a gimmick that doesn't even handle one of its main counters, then I honestly can't see how the strategy's worth it.

You could argue that Tricking Iron Ball could allow the rest of the team to handle Skarmory better, but TrickScarf is even more effective, by making Skarmory have a harder time with setup moves and the like.

If you Trick it to a threat that's switching in, you don't have to worry about that. If you Trick it to a non-threat to Metagross (but something that is a threat to another team member), then you could potentially stay in.

If you run Choice Scarf Trick, you risk Tricking it to a sweeper/Pokemon that can use a Scarf.

I think you made a mistake in your calculations. Here:
Turn 1: 252+ Atk Metagross Trick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 0-0 (0 - 0%)
Turn 2: 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 330-390 (110 - 130%)
-- guaranteed 2HKO

You're not accounting for the turn that Trick is used here. You need to use Trick before Earthquake, so it's still a 2HKO like Ice Punch/Rock Slide.

Ice Punch/Rock Slide is better in more situations too, since it can KO on the switch if Stealth Rock/weather damage is taken into account, while Trick can't. Even if you hit it with Ice Punch/Rock Slide on the switch, you'd most likely still end up with the same result.

This is assuming that Metagross and Thundurus switch in at the same time, so Metagross has to use Trick before it has any chance to attack.

With Ice Punch/Rock Slide, if Thundurus switches in on an Earthquake, you're not doing any damage, so you still have to attack again before you're doing any damage.

So it's only helpful against a couple of Pokemon, and only if they're switching in, and only if they have a specific item. This pretty much says that Iron Ball + Trick Metagross is only helpful in an ideal scenario. Strategies that can get you out of unfavourable situations are much more valuable.

As I said earlier, it's even useful against Pokemon that don't threaten Metagross specifically, but threaten other teammates (or Pokemon that can threaten both).

EXAMPLES:
Garchomp uses Earthquake, doing 71.4 - 84.6%. Metagross Tricks Iron Ball to Garchomp. Metagross switches to Kyurem-B, which is normally outsped by Garchomp. Garchomp uses Earthquake again, doing 41.6 - 49.3%. Kyurem-B can now KO without being outsped.

Greninja uses Dark Pulse. Metagross Tricks Iron Ball to Greninja. Metagross uses (other move). Greninja uses Dark Pulse, KO'ing. This allows a number of other safe switches (e.g. Landorus, among others), now that Greninja cannot outspeed.

If you're gonna predict the switch, then you might as well just pop the Balloon anyway. Against Heatran, you can pop the Balloon and outspeed it with some Speed investment for a KO. Against Excadrill, you could just have a Balloon to begin with and still have the advantage by popping the Balloon on the switch, and you can even switch in on Excadrill's Earthquake too. Not like Balloon Excadrill/Heatran's all that common anyway, I think they're mainly wearing Scarves nowadays.

In order to outspeed Heatran, you have to have speed investment (assuming you're using an Assault Vest set, you most likely wouldn't), and the opposing Heatran has to have no speed investment. And, yes, Excadrill/Heatran commonly use Air Balloons (though Choice Scarf is the next most common thing for both of them).

Eh... This is true, but it can also be flipped around. You could gimp the opponent with Iron Ball and then use a teammate to deal with it, but on the other hand you could just use a generally better Metagross set and then use a teammate that beats Metagross's threats even without the Iron Ball. You only get one shot for a TrickBall, so it's not as reliable as just using a good partner that can switch in multiple times regardless.

Trick + Iron Ball offers better support for other teammates, especially slower ones (or ones that are somewhat fast but aren't fast enough to outspeed potentially major threats); additionally, I assume that this Metagross would serve as a supplement to the team rather than what it's built around (e.g. needed a support Mon so added Utility Metagross)- in this case, a "better" Metagross wouldn't work in the same scenarios. It's like asking why you'd use Sticky Web when you can just use faster Pokemon.

tl;dr, if you're gonna defend Trick + Iron Ball, don't try to nitpick my arguments, just make one or two really good points that shows that it has merit.

Nitpicking: looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.

ಠ_ಠ

Yeah doesn't sandstorm increase their defenses by 50%?

Special defense of Rock-types.

[Nebbles]

So Steel and Ground don't get that same coverage, or Pokemon that have abilities such as Magic Guard. So eh, even so, weather's nowhere near as good as it used to be.

[FireArrow]

I actually had a lot of fun recently fucking around in the higher portion of UU ladder with a Switcheroo Klutz AV Lopunny because UU is so stally. It was so fun when I managed to mess Blisseys and Suicunes up, but it's still a horrible set. Stallbreaker Mew is by far a better option.

Stallbreaker mew is god. I use a set of WoW, Softboiled, Taunt, and Infestation around 1600 on the OU latter. It fucks up so much stuff.

[Waddle Bro]

I based the 70% on my experience on the higher portion of the tier. I wouldn't base my words on the Usage button on Smogon Damage Calc, a month back it suggested a Flame Plate Victini to me. The noobs usually just click the "suggested ev spread". The majority of Smogon Forums also agrees and explains why Physically Defensive Rotom-W is the best Rotom-W set. It checks Talonflame, Mega Pinsir and Azumarill who all run rampant in the OU tier. It also walls the annoying physical Jirachi, and FSM's Snatch set who I like to run counters Calm Mind.

Also, it wasn't a 2HKO after Lefties. Even with two max rolls.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I based the 70% on my experience on the higher portion of the tier. I wouldn't base my words on the Usage button on Smogon Damage Calc, a month back it suggested a Flame Plate Victini to me. The noobs usually just click the "suggested ev spread". The majority of Smogon Forums also agrees and explains why Physically Defensive Rotom-W is the best Rotom-W set. It checks Talonflame, Mega Pinsir and Azumarill who all run rampant in the OU tier. It also walls the annoying physical Jirachi, and FSM's Snatch set who I like to run counters Calm Mind.

Usage stats. That show what a majority of people are using. What you're more likely to encounter.

Also, it wasn't a 2HKO after Lefties. Even with two max rolls.

Rotom-W can't use Leftovers if it has been Tricked an Iron Ball.

[Waddle Bro]

You're ignoring the fact that OU and Ubers are filled with noobs who suck ass at teambuilding and can't get above even 1500 for a reason. Even the folk at Smogon agree that physically defensive is superior.

Also Sand Veil Garchomp has 13% usage in OU, seems legit.