The Post Your Thoughts of the Moment Thread 2

[SuperFireKirby]

BUT ITS GOT MY OTHER MAIN MAN, HUGH JACKMAN IN IT.

[MassiveMayhem]

I'm going to be on the radio next Tuesday!  I love my radio broadcasting class

[Roz~]

My brother had a car accident yesterday. He only had his car for... 1 month? Geeze.

[Jub3r7]

http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=982.msg125075#msg125075

[Dude]

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_S5cXbXe-4

[DrP]

You're disregarding practically every good thing these Presidents did.  You can't expect President's to magically fix problems.  Change occurs slowly.  Franklin Roosevelt, for example, wasn't able to magically fix the economy, it took time.
Now, when you have a President like Herbert Hoover who's not even doing anything to help the people, then yeah, of course he can deemed as a poor President, but you can't just presume that a President's job is to immediately fix a problem.

Your argument against Carter is one thing, a bad economy.  But I think it's sort of justifiable considering he was fighting a Cold War.  Furthermore, you completely disregard his campaign trips.  Should he have focused on the economy more?  Sure.  Does that mean he was a terrible President for putting it aside for other important matters?  Of course not.
As far as Clinton goes, his affair has nothing to do with his presidency.  Was it reprehensible?  Of course, but it's not something too important in the grand scheme of things, considering his duties in office were still being accomplished rather well.  I'll admit though, that as far as more recent Presidents go, I'm rather uneducated about their doings, so I can't really defend him, aside from being a sheep and saying he's super coll along with the rest of the population!

And Obama.
I have no idea how politics work, but from what I understand.

"Hey guys, here is a plan that will stimulate the economy and make everyone happy." ~Obama
*Sends bill or whatever for approval*
"Denied." ~Republicans

So, as far as I'm aware, nothing is being done because of internal dissension and Obama has absolutely no control over it.  But of course, I don't understand politics, so I probably wouldn't know much about the situation!

Anyway, I still don't quite understand your stance.  You can't possibly believe that these Presidents are worse than most others?  Economic problems are what you're using to define these Presidents as bad, but I see no mention of Presidents such as Hoover (Who, I believe, should be the first to come to mind as far as economic problems in history go.) or other ignominious people, such as John Tyler (Who lied about his policies to get into office).  To say that people like Carter, Clinton, and Obama are terrible Presidents is just ridiculous (More than in the first place!) in the big picture.  Lincoln fought a Civil War.  That doesn't mean he was a bad President.  Wilson fought a WWI.  That doesn't mean he's a bad President either.  Associating President's with problems that they neglected to face or weren't able to completely solve is unfair, in my opinion.

and drpamplemousse why would we switch to pm what about discussion

Hoover was a douche. Hoovervilles were such failures and make him quite terrible... basically the presidents of the Roaring 20s were horrid... Harding with Tea Pot Dome, Coolidge with further running the country into the ground with his economic policy (seriously, laissez-faire?) and Hoover just sitting there. FDR did try and fix the problems, but he created a massive mess with some of the programs he created (namely the crazy shit happening with Social Security and the horrible stuff happened. When it was created the age to cash in was 63, and the avg life expectancy was 60, so not many people got it... now people live to about 77 or so... SSA should raise the age to 80 or something..) -- but what ultimately got us out was WWII.

Jimmy Carter just failed. He is basically an Obama of the 70s. He tried to create a "comprehensive medical system" which is basically Obamacare, but that failed. Granted the Energy Crisis was developed by OPEC, but Carter did basically nothing about it or even tried to make a deal with OPEC to get the oil prices down. Foreign Policy was failed (except as I said in the Peace Accords). His economic policy was a total failure, his economic advisor was a dumbass and the Federal Reserve Chairman wasn't helping to the growing inflation rate. During the Cold War, he had to deal with Brezhnev with the SALT II treaty, which really didn't go over well with the American people. At least Nixon had the détente with the USSR and it was a better time because of the relationship with Nikita Khrushchev and Nixon. Plus he boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics, which if the US went to it, my dad would've gone to those for swimming... so personal vendetta, too (but not let this fact defer from my argument). In all sincerity, Carter, like Obama, is probably a GREAT person outside the Oval Office, but they both do a terrible job at what they're doing.

Bill Clinton, though appalling through the actions he did as a person. His moral character is terrible. In terms of his job, I must admit that I do like him a bit more than say FDR, Lyndon Johnson and Carter, because of his moderate stances toward things that I could agree with (like DofMA and DADT, though I am not really caring about the 2nd one as much anymore). In foreign policy, the Iraq Liberation Act was an utter failure, killing many Iraqi children (oh look, I'm going soft..). In Domestic Policy, he tightened gun control laws and made it harder for people to buy the amazing guns we can buy. He raised taxes with the Omnibus Taxation act and began the decline of the American business when NAFTA was created, beginning a slow, but massive exportation to Mexico and China (indirectly) as a part of the plan to strengthen trade between US, CA and MX (though CA does give us some awesome benefits). He also lowered import tariffs which aided to the exportation of production to Chinese factories (thus finally justified costs on balance sheets in many companies for production overseas) -- The job market for Americans at this point was slowly in decline. He may have been able to make an "inflated surplus" -- which wasn't really a surplus and show that we had money... however once Bush and his economic team looked at the numbers, there was some miscalculations for this. The great thing I can say about him was that he actually worked with Congress (with Speaker Gingrich and the Republicans to pass BIPARTISAN bills -- if only Obama did that today, which leads me to my next point).

President Obama, though a nice person and a "new hope for America" by being the first black dude in the Oval Office and all that fun stuff associated with that, here's the truth. His economic policy is shit. He never really spent time in the private sector to even breathe a single breath. He basically went from grad school into government and then into the senate. He doesn't know much how our economy works internally, but only by textbook means (and this totally is not helping at the moment -- it's hindering our development)... plus Ben Bernake is just an asshat who thinks he can control the American economy, so I can't blame Obama 100% (he's about 75% at fault here -- for trying to fix the economy). He says he trys to maintain bipartisanship and all that jazz, but his bills are highly one-sided. Even in his speech to congress with this recent jobs bill. He said "pass this bill" on some 16 separate occasions and in order for us to "know" what's in the bill, Minority Leader Old Bat (Nancy Pelosi) said that would be the case. His foreign policy is atrocious with the insults to American customs (like bowing to Japanese leaders -- he IS the leader of the free world who shouldn't bow to anyone... but that's just me... nationalist nik). His relations with China are laughable compared to Jimmy Carter and continuing to borrow from our Red Neighbors to finance HUMANITARIAN AID! He is doing little to help reduce illegal immigration and even securing the border from drug cartels and Iran problems. You should see the numbers of how many people die crossing that border each year... and it's not National Guard shooting civilians, that's for sure. The reasons why Republicans WONT pass his bills that he says are "good for everyone" are because there are major flaws that combat things Republicans are trying to fight for, not against. It was basically a wealth distribution and tax increase that will stimulate jobs. In BASIC economics, raising taxes at this point are not going to help the economy at this time. The economic problem is just the normal cyclical recession that happens with government (both Bush era Congress and Obama era Congress) trying to interfere with the natural order. His dealings with these "green companies" are the beginning of the next bubble burst (remember the dotcom bubble in the mid 90s and the tech bubble in the early 2000s and the mini recession in 2004-2005 -- those were industry sector bubble bursts). THe green industry is next and companies like Solyndra take out massive government loans (like 830m) and then hire 19 people and then file for bankruptcy... it is just people using and abusing the system. Al Gore is a perfect example with his formulations about certain aspects of his global warming theory.

Why PM? Cause we don't want this thread locked! But all well.

But Nixon DID withdraw troops from Vietnam around 1971. He said he'd wind down the war, and to a certain degree, he did.

We had almost all of our ground forces out of Vietnam by Watergate, and North Vietnam was busy kicking South Vietnam's ass. But we couldn't do anything - because Nixon withdrew the men.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've learned in history class earlier this week.

Yep. Plus he helped launch the Space Shuttle Program!!!

The 1973 Energy Crisis was after the events of the Yom Kippur War (which we supported our greatest ally, Israel). OPEC wasn't too happy when we sent 2.2b in aid to Israel and they raised the prices 17% and then proceeded to drop oil output. They placed the embargo on us, not the other way around. SoS Kissinger unveiled a plan to make us energy independent, but our consumption needed immediate results. The only bad thing I can say about Nixon is that he didn't do much to help it.

Plus Nixon was born in Yorba Linda... we protect our own kind.

[triforced1]

I'm really having some trouble arranging a song. Look at the help subsection if you've got time

[Mashi]

it probably wasnt wise of me to discuss presidents before actually learning about them

Though, I feel that you're still neglecting to attribute the good the Presidents did, as well as the extent of their power over the situations that they were braving.  But anyway;

YOU WIN THIS TIME, DRPAMPLEMOUSSE.

[Jub3r7]

That's why Mashi is awesome.

Almost everyone HAS to have the last word in an argument (especially if they are especially certain of their argument) and it's really annoying for both sides.
Like, someone says to another person, "STOP ARGUING, YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD, DON'T YOU" and the other person is like "NOT REALLY, IT SEEMS MORE LIKE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD, YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT SO I'LL STOP TALKING AND YOU CAN GET THE LAST WORD", and it's all superfluously frivolous.

[Mashi]

saria: WORGULL
[9:07 PM] vera: Yes?
[9:07 PM] saria: D:
[9:07 PM] saria: SAY
[9:07 PM] vera: Say Word Gull?
[9:08 PM] saria: 'WORD UP!' ON THE PYTOTM THREAD

WORD UP.

[SlowPokemon]

http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=982.msg125075#msg125075

Can we keep him? Pleeeaaase? He's so funny, it keeps me from being depressed.

[DrP]

it probably wasnt wise of me to discuss presidents before actually learning about them

Though, I feel that you're still neglecting to attribute the good the Presidents did, as well as the extent of their power over the situations that they were braving.  But anyway;

YOU WIN THIS TIME, DRPAMPLEMOUSSE.

I did allude to some good.
Carter: Camp David Accords
Clinton: Defense of Marriage Act
Obama: Still have to figure it out (but I am happy he hasn't sold the country to China in its entirety -- especially for some magic beans... Oh and killing Osama!)

[Nebbles]

Bah make this homework go away

[KefkaticFanatic]

Clinton: Defense of Marriage Act

And there will be no more discussion relating to this unless people want bans.

[Dude]

:< Damn