TWG CXXIII Host May-Be's

[BlackDragonSlayer]

One of these days I will run out of joke titles, but today is not that day. Games should be built around 6-7 players, as per the most recent activity poll. Hosting poll will go up end of day on Saturday, May 25th.

Hosts:
1. mastersuperfan
2.
...

[mastersuperfan]

TWG CXXIII: A Dance of Fire and Ice

Wolves:
1. Arcanine, the Fire Wolf: Every night, can choose one living player to burn permanently and (from N2 on) one living player to paint red for that night only. The painted target is seered red by the Fire Seer that night (even if they are also painted by the Ice Wolf).
2. Ninetales, the Ice Wolf: Every night, can choose one living player to chill permanently and (from N2 on) one living player to paint blue for that night only. The painted target is seered blue by the Ice Seer that night (even if they are also painted by the Fire Wolf).

Players who are either burned or chilled, but not both, have their vote cut in half and are not told that they are burned or chilled. Players who are both burned and chilled die at the end of the night phase. Wolves are affected by these status conditions in the same way as humans.

The wolves are not told each other's identity and have separate wincons, but they may win together if they are the last two players alive.

Humans:
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human

Special powers:

• Sear, the Fire Seer: At the start of the game, a player other than the Fire Wolf is chosen at random to wield the power of the Fire Seer (i.e. the Ice Wolf could also be the Fire Seer). Each night starting from N2, can choose one living player to seer. Seers red players red and other players green.
• Icier, the Ice Seer: At the start of the game, a player other than the Ice Wolf is chosen at random to wield the power of the Ice Seer (i.e. the Fire Wolf could also be the Ice Seer). Each night starting from N2, can choose one living player to seer. Seers blue players blue and other players green.

If both seering roles go to the same player, or if both seering roles go to wolves, then the seer role distribution is rerandomized.

Win conditions:

• The Fire Wolf wins when (a) the Ice Wolf is dead and they have at least 50% of the voting power (or inevitably will by the end of the night), or (b) the Ice Wolf is alive and all humans are dead.
• The Ice Wolf wins when (a) the Fire Wolf is dead and they have at least 50% of the voting power (or inevitably will by the end of the night), or (b) the Fire Wolf is alive and all humans are dead.
• Humans win when both wolves are dead.

Host clarifications:
- N1 start.
- Instas are OFF. Lynching is required (no lynch is not an option). Phantoms are in play.
- Real vote totals (e.g. including the halving from burn/chill) will be published following each lynch.
- Cardflips are off.
- First night phase will be 48 hours. Subsequent night phases will be 24 hours; day phases will be 48 hours.

[Oricorio]

TWG CXXIII: A Dance of Fire and Ice

Wolves:
1. Fire Wolf: Every night, can choose one living player to mark red.
2. Ice Wolf: Every night, can choose one living player to mark blue.

Marks are permanent. Players marked either red or blue lose half their vote and are not told they were marked. Players marked with both colors die at the end of the night.

The wolves are not told each other's identity and have separate wincons, but they may win together if they are the last two players alive.

Humans:
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human

Special powers:

• Fire Seer: At the start of the game, a player other than the Fire Wolf is chosen at random to be the Fire Seer (i.e. the Ice Wolf could also be the Fire Seer). Every night, can choose one player to seer. Seers the Fire Wolf and any players marked red as red; seers all other players green.
• Ice Seer: At the start of the game, a player other than the Ice Wolf is chosen at random to be the Ice Seer (i.e. the Fire Wolf could also be the Ice Seer). Every night, can choose one player to seer. Seers the Ice Wolf and any players marked blue as blue; seers all other players green.

The same player cannot obtain both seering roles. If a target is both marked and seered in the same night, the mark happens first.

Win conditions:

• The Fire Wolf wins when (a) the Ice Wolf is dead and they have at least 50% of the voting power (or inevitably will by the end of the night), or (b) the Ice Wolf is alive and all humans are dead.
• The Ice Wolf wins when (a) the Fire Wolf is dead and they have at least 50% of the voting power (or inevitably will by the end of the night), or (b) the Fire Wolf is alive and all humans are dead.
• Humans win when both wolves are dead.

Host clarifications:
- N1 start.
- Instas are OFF. Lynching is required (no lynch is not an option). Phantoms are in play.
- KitBs will NOT be announced; a lynch target will simply be chosen at random.
- Cardflips are off.
- First night phase will be 48 hours. Subsequent night phases will be 24 hours; day phases will be 48 hours.

Can the Fire Wolf mark the Ice Wolf red or vice versa?

Also, what happens in an F3 with Ice Wolf/Fire Wolf/Human? The Human can't win in this situation as far as I can tell but can still have an influence in who wins

[mastersuperfan]

Can the Fire Wolf mark the Ice Wolf red or vice versa?

Yes, and they will lose half their vote accordingly. However, since players need to be marked both colors to be nightkilled, a wolf cannot be nightkilled unless they also choose to mark themselves for whatever reason. (Note that even though the Fire Wolf is seered red, they are not considered marked red unless they target themselves at night.)

Also, what happens in an F3 with Ice Wolf/Fire Wolf/Human? The Human can't win in this situation as far as I can tell but can still have an influence in who wins

The game plays on until one of the win conditions is met. I think this is fine because the players may not know for sure whether both wolves are alive, so from every perspective it can be played as a F3 with 2 humans and 1 wolf.

[SpecsFlyer17]

Phantoms are in play.

Just a suggestion from my experiences- Perhaps consider turning Phantoms off for this game.
A few months ago, I hosted a game with vote manipulation and a critical lynch phase got heavily influenced by a phantom. There's nothing really wrong with it, but I think it sorta takes away from the spirit of vote manipulation games. Someone (I think BDS) mentioned that games with vote manipulation are often played without phantoms.

Edit: BDS didn't say that games with vote manipulation are played without phantom, but suggested that perhaps they potentially should be.

Also, are vote tallies published after a day phase? If they are, there could be some deduction done to figure out who is marked. Not sure if that's the direction you want or not.

[SpecsFlyer17]

One other thought:

i.e. the Ice Wolf could also be the Fire Seer

There may be a lot of "swing" in this game with seer roles potentially going to wolves on a random chance. I don't have enough experience to say whether this random role assignment unbalances the game or not, but I'd imagine having one seer role (and definitely two) assigned to a wolf would hurt the humans' shot at winning.

[mastersuperfan]

Just a suggestion from my experiences- Perhaps consider turning Phantoms off for this game.
A few months ago, I hosted a game with vote manipulation and a critical lynch phase got heavily influenced by a phantom. There's nothing really wrong with it, but I think it sorta takes away from the spirit of vote manipulation games. Someone (I think BDS) mentioned that games with vote manipulation are often played without phantoms.

That's a fair point — I'll think about it and likely update accordingly, along with the next set of revisions to the game that I'm thinking about. (Most notably decoupling the vote reduction and the painting effect, since I think if they're combined then it's almost always optimal to just lynch someone who was seered red/blue.)

Also, are vote tallies published after a day phase? If they are, there could be some deduction done to figure out who is marked. Not sure if that's the direction you want or not.

They are not, since I think that gives away a little too much info for my taste (and also seems potentially exploitable). I think that lynch outcomes + KitBs being announced gives a decent enough amount of information for deduction purposes. Open to hearing other opinions though.

EDIT: on second thought I'll consider this more heavily

One other thought:

There may be a lot of "swing" in this game with seer roles potentially going to wolves on a random chance. I don't have enough experience to say whether this random role assignment unbalances the game or not, but I'd imagine having one seer role (and definitely two) assigned to a wolf would hurt the humans' shot at winning.

I think I prefer to keep the possibility that one of them is a wolf, so as not to let the game be dominated by an alliance between them. I'd be fine with adding a stipulation that the seers can't both be wolves, though.

[mastersuperfan]

Updated with changes — thanks for the feedback, Specs!

I decided to keep phantoms in play since I don't want to encourage a strategy of not voting, which I think otherwise might arguably have utility in a few niche cases.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

A reminder to potential hosts to submit your game before end-of-day Saturday!!!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

MSF, you can post player sign-ups as soon as you're able!!