[N64] Pokémon Stadium - "Gym Leader Castle Battle (Trainer) (Two Pianos)" by Yug Guy

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Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Stadium
Console: Nintendo 64
Title: Gym Leader Castle Battle (Trainer)
Instrumentation Two Pianos
Arranger: Yug Guy

[Yug_Guy]

After looking through my old arrangements, I was shocked at how well this one held up. All it needed was a little polish!

While Pokémon Stadium had some of its music released onto a soundtrack, this particular piece wasn't on it and also the titles are strange and I hate it.

Tried my best to keep both piano parts interesting & swapped the main melody between the both of them. I think this is technically my first Two Piano submission? So, let me know if there's anything I can do. 

[Kricketune54]

This is quite interesting looking, will have to look at a bit more. The credit at the bottom of page is missing the website link though...

[Kricketune54]

Okay, some real feedback

• The tempo is in a different font than the current templates (Maestro Times and Times New Roman are what they should be for notehead and bpm # respectively

Piano 1
• m10 RH 3.25 hearing En, 3.5 C#, 3.75 An, and 4.75 as C# again.
• m19 1.0 and 4.0, and m20 3.0 the Dn sounds slightly longer, could remove the staccato, or add an accent as well? Would apply also for m23 and 24 same spots
   • For these same mentioned measures as well, also not hearing the parallel thirds underneath the notes.
   • Additionally, for m19 hearing a Dn on 3.5 (3.0 is not full quarter length), as well as m20 2.5. Same spots for m23 and 24
• m25 RH hearing 1.0 as 16th length, followed by same notes on 1.25.
• m37 RH you could add the fall on beat 2.0 (the Gn). Could have it end before beat 3, but I also can understand excluding it given the notes on beat 3 LH. You could alternatively write beat 2 RH as a sextuplet (5 notes) - Gn, F#, En Dn C# or all notes after G I mentioned as grace notes. Could do something like this sheet: https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/5267 m19 RH before beat 3 for example.
• m58 RH there is a run on beat 1 you could add as opposed to a rest, similar to m61 beat 4.
• m58-62 LH I do wonder if this part is a bit excessive - just listening to playback and midi with the collective LH's I have a hard time hearing the RH melody for Piano 1 here (though admittedly I had a hard time when removing any notes). I would lightly suggest removing the bottom An octave just so it's not three low octaves of An in the LH between both pianos. Feel free to stick with if you'd like for another updater opinion, but I do think there's a bit too much An at the moment here.


Piano 2
• m3 and m5, m7 and m9 beat 3.0 and 3.5 these 8th rests could be combined to a quarter rest.
• m11 and m16 LH I hear beats 3.5-4.5 An, Gn, Bn
• m20 and m24 LH hearing 4.0 as F#
• m49 RH hearing grace notes as En and Fn
• m59 LH 4.5 hearing as Cn
• m61 1.0 hearing En, 1.5 An. 4.5 also as Cn

[Yug_Guy]

So I totally didn't realize I had gotten feedback and now I feel stupid. Anyway, I'll try and mention all the changes (if I don't quote something, it probably means I did it and don't have anything to say about it)

• The tempo is in a different font than the current templates (Maestro Times and Times New Roman are what they should be for notehead and bpm # respectively

I just had the default Finale stuff, hopefully it should be good now.

• m19 1.0 and 4.0, and m20 3.0 the Dn sounds slightly longer, could remove the staccato, or add an accent as well? Would apply also for m23 and 24 same spots
   • For these same mentioned measures as well, also not hearing the parallel thirds underneath the notes.

Yeah, the thirds aren't there. My bad

• m37 RH you could add the fall on beat 2.0 (the Gn). Could have it end before beat 3, but I also can understand excluding it given the notes on beat 3 LH. You could alternatively write beat 2 RH as a sextuplet (5 notes) - Gn, F#, En Dn C# or all notes after G I mentioned as grace notes. Could do something like this sheet: https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/5267 m19 RH before beat 3 for example.

I added a glissando for this, which should work just as well

• m58-62 LH I do wonder if this part is a bit excessive - just listening to playback and midi with the collective LH's I have a hard time hearing the RH melody for Piano 1 here (though admittedly I had a hard time when removing any notes). I would lightly suggest removing the bottom An octave just so it's not three low octaves of An in the LH between both pianos. Feel free to stick with if you'd like for another updater opinion, but I do think there's a bit too much An at the moment here.

That's a fair point, fixed

• m49 RH hearing grace notes as En and Fn

It's actually D-En-Fn, but fixed regardless

• m59 LH 4.5 hearing as Cn
• m61 1.0 hearing En, 1.5 An. 4.5 also as Cn

Turns out I had both of these parts completely wrong. Should be fixed now.

Now that I'm going through this, I'm wondering if maybe I should do a full transcription so I have something to base this off of...

[Kricketune54]

So I totally didn't realize I had gotten feedback and now I feel stupid. Anyway, I'll try and mention all the changes (if I don't quote something, it probably means I did it and don't have anything to say about it)

sounds good👍

I just had the default Finale stuff, hopefully it should be good now.

This is good now

I added a glissando for this, which should work just as well

Oh yeah that does haha

It's actually D-En-Fn, but fixed regardless

Listened again and this right

Now that I'm going through this, I'm wondering if maybe I should do a full transcription so I have something to base this off of...

By all means if it would help go for it 

Continuing on with mostly note feedback


Piano 1
Hearing some bottom notes different in some select measures. The pitches I say I hear are instead of what is currently present in those spots for the lower note.
• m3, m5, m7 and m9 RH beats 2.5-3.0 hearing En, and 3.5 and 4.5 hearing both as Fn
• Similarly RH m4, m6, m8 and m10 2.5-3.0 hearing En, 3.5 as Eb.
• RH m11, m15 hearing 2.5 as An, and 4.0 Bn
• RH m12, m16 1.5 hearing An, and 2.5 Bn.

• m18, m22, m25 LH 1.0 I think I'm hearing this as tied same note from 4.5 of the previous measure
• m18, m22, m25 LH beats 1.0-2.5 sound to me like the An is the top pitch on all of these 8th notes.
• m25 RH 2.5 hearing Bn and 2.75 C# hearing notes underneath each.
• m27-28 LH An sounds like Bn in these measures, and in m29-30 hearing Cn instead of Bn
• m67 LH beat 3.0-4.5 hearing 4 8th notes of Bn-F# instead of 2 quarter notes. on m69 hearing same pattern as well.


Piano 2
• m8 RH 4.5 hearing this as a Cn restrike not C#
• m26 RH I do hear some trumpet pitches in this measure that lead into the next bar, so you could add those instead of having a rest here
• m27 RH hearing completely different, beat 1 sounds like 3 16th notes, and beat 2 has a 16th on 1.0 followed by an 8th note. I think there's also notes on beat 4
• m28 RH sounds a bit different as well from beat 2 to end.
• m31 RH 4.0 I think this note is held so no staccato
• m34 beat 2 bottom note is En

[Yug_Guy]

Now that I'm going through this, I'm wondering if maybe I should do a full transcription so I have something to base this off of...

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/aax7swnqyxns4ihfxwg5n/AEbSZph8Abtj_k6TTisBSOM?rlkey=ghdvf5ucsie5r3a4ljprsmh9a&st=nmtcbj3c&dl=0
Welp, I guess that answers that question

Needless to say, I've updated this sheet to reflect my current transcription of this song. Hopefully that should have gotten most, if not all, of Kricketune's feedback from the last post.


Also, you might have noticed that in the transcription I've titled it "Battle! (Trainer Battle)". I would like to change this sheet to that as well with approval, and here is my reasoning:

• Unlike the Stadium themes, the battle music for Gym Leader Castle are like more straightforward covers of the R/B/Y Battle music than remixes
• And in the official Pokemon Stadium Sound CD, the Stadium Music is named [Stadium Name][Number] (e.g. "Pika Cup 2")
• Thus, to me at least, it makes sense to consider this a cover of R/B/Y's Battle Music, and thus, share its name

[Kricketune54]

I think I'd prefer the original submitted title. I get your reasoning on it being more of a straightforward cover than an arrangement, but reflecting the context of where the theme plays in game would make more sense than just calling it "Battle! (Trainer Battle)" to me. Like I know there's probably not too many people that are super familiar with the Stadium Games' music who would be thrown off seeing this proposed title, but it's not like this theme plays anywhere else to my knowledge than the Gym Leader Castle.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but it appears this theme's arrangement is credited to Masafumi Kawamura? https://vgmdb.net/album/1401

• Looks like you did leave out the tie at m9 RH on the Bn (comparing to your transcription)
• For m6 and  m8 RH 2nd part: I think these staccatos should be notehead side like m10. As an aside, we usually recommend staccatos on the stem side to center over the notehead as opposed to the stem.
• m69 1st part LH 4.0 I hear the Gn stay instead of shifting to an F#

[Kricketune54]

One additional comment I wanted to raise, the new way of tying notes at m47 and elsewhere, I would suggest some alternative means so this looks a bit cleaner.

1) You could tie the notes over to their final duration (screenshot is an example)

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2) You could utilize what are called "Ravel Ties" https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/2663 see m35 for an example

[Yug_Guy]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but it appears this theme's arrangement is credited to Masafumi Kawamura? https://vgmdb.net/album/1401

You would think so, but confusingly those songs are the ones that play on the menu screen for Gym Leader Castle, not the actual battles

• Looks like you did leave out the tie at m9 RH on the Bn (comparing to your transcription)

Done

• For m6 and  m8 RH 2nd part: I think these staccatos should be notehead side like m10. As an aside, we usually recommend staccatos on the stem side to center over the notehead as opposed to the stem.

I think those are already on the notehead side (unless I'm looking in the wrong spot)

• m69 1st part LH 4.0 I hear the Gn stay instead of shifting to an F#

Double-checked and it is an F#.

2) You could utilize what are called "Ravel Ties" https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/2663 see m35 for an example

I like the idea of these Ravel Ties, not sure how to implement them in Finale. Would appreciate some assistance with that.

[Kricketune54]

I think those are already on the notehead side (unless I'm looking in the wrong spot)

(addressed on Discord, I now see it's a Finale version thing)

Double-checked and it is an F#.

Still hearing Gn but I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong, so I'm okay with keeping F#

I like the idea of these Ravel Ties, not sure how to implement them in Finale. Would appreciate some assistance with that.

So from my own experimentation to replicate this at m42, you could use the note mover tool to move the notes to current positions, and also extend the ties to visually connect to the notes they are tying to. Unfortunately there are some restrikes on playback with this method, I thought maybe you could hide individual pitches and ties on beats but that is not possible.

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You could do a thing where you create a whole hidden instrument that plays those notes, but it is a whole extra layer of complexity.

[Yug_Guy]

So from my own experimentation to replicate this at m42, you could use the note mover tool to move the notes to current positions, and also extend the ties to visually connect to the notes they are tying to. Unfortunately there are some restrikes on playback with this method, I thought maybe you could hide individual pitches and ties on beats but that is not possible.

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You could do a thing where you create a whole hidden instrument that plays those notes, but it is a whole extra layer of complexity.

Alright, here's my attempt at the Ravel ties. Let me know what changes I need to make, though if it's very minuscule formatting changes, it might be faster to just take care of them directly.

I'm not going to bother doing a whole other layer just for the MIDI - it sounds good enough.

[Kricketune54]

The ties are mostly there, some minor tweaks. Apologies I did talk to another updater afterwards about how the ties should be oriented, and learned that the ties should be flipped as follows:

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I made the updates myself though, as well as a fix to one of the glisses at m37. This sheet is now approved

[Yug_Guy]

The ties are mostly there, some minor tweaks. Apologies I did talk to another updater afterwards about how the ties should be oriented, and learned that the ties should be flipped as follows:

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I made the updates myself though, as well as a fix to one of the glisses at m37. This sheet is now approved

You're all good. Saves me from having to do all the tedious bits.