TWG CXX: Lynch the Grynch Game Thread

[SpecsFlyer17]

TWG CXX: Lynch the Grynch



Teams:
1. The Grinch

2. Santa Claus
3. Rudolph
4. Frosty the Snowman
5. Elf
6. Elf
7. Ebenezer Scrooge

8. Grandma (who got run over a reindeer)


Role Descriptions:
Grinch: He hates Christmas so much so that each night, he selects one player to be put on the "naughty list". The following day, that player's vote will not count. This list is cumulative. The Grinch will be informed if the player was successfully added to the naughty list or not. Also, if he places Santa on the naughty list, the Grinch will become seer colored green, and Santa will lose the ability to place a player on the nice list. Also has a seer ability, which can be used each night.

Santa Claus: Each night, Santa selects one player to be on the "nice list". If that player is on the naughty list, they are removed from the list but can be placed on the naughty list later. If the player was not on the naughty list, they are immune from being placed on the naughty list for the rest of the game. Cannot select himself, however the ability can be used once more while dead if Santa dies.
Rudolph: Lights up the night with his bright nose. Each night, he can submit one name to learn their color. Seer role.
Frosty the Snowman: A jolly, happy soul. He's pretty thicc, and his extra weight allows him to survive one wolfing without dying. Does not apply to lynching. Role PM says he's an Elf.
Elf: Just a normal elf.
Ebenezer Scrooge: Despite his harsh appearance, Scrooge has rediscovered the true meaning and spirit of Christmas. Unfortunately, he will flag red if seer'd by Rudolph. Role PM says he's an Elf.

Grandma (who got run over by a reindeer): Or at least she's trying to. Her goal is to be lynched by D2. If she is successful in doing so, one random player who voted from her will also be run over by the reindeer (killed), although the Grinch cannot die via this method (unless no one else voted for Grandma). If she fails to be lynched by D2, she loses and is removed from the game. Cannot be wolfed; a wolfing attempt against her will fail. The game does NOT end if Grandma wins or loses.

Other Rules:
N1 start.
24hr nights, 48hr days (a time extension may be implemented over Christmas, Boxing Day, New Years on a case-by-case basis).
No cardflips.
Vote totals will not be published, just the lynched player (and whether or not it was a KitB).
No instas, phantoms will be awarded for failure to vote.
PMs are permitted, just keep the host included.
If the same player is selected by the Grinch and Santa on a given night, they are placed on the naughty list and then subsequently removed. They can be placed on the naughty list on subsequent nights. The Grinch will still be informed that their power worked, since the player was placed on the naughty list, then taken off it.
If a wolfing fails, a "wolfing failed" message will be announced. If the Grinch doesn't wolf anyone, a "no wolfing" message will be announced.
If the Grinch places Santa on the naughty list, the grinch will be informed and Santa's action's will be voided that night.
If Santa is wolfed, his action that night does not count as his one "dead" action.
Added: If the Grinch correctly guesses Santa and is Seer'd by Rudolph that night, the result will be green.

Win Conditions:
Grinch: Achieve parity (1v1).
Town: Lynch the Grinch.
Grandma: Get lynched by D2.

Role PMs

Spoiler

I wouldn't touch you with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole! You are the Grinch. Each night, submit a player to be placed on the naughty list and submit a player to be seer'd. The results of both actions will be returned at the end of the night phase. Also, submit a player to be wolfed. You win by achieving wolf/town parity, which is 1v1 in this game.

Ho Ho Ho! You are Santa Claus. Each night, submit a player (besides yourself) to be placed on the nice list. If you are killed, you can still place one more player on the nice list during a subsequent night. If the Grinch places you on the naughty list, you lose your power. Ho ho ho!

Lol your nose is red??? You must be Rudolph. Each night, submit a player to be seer'd. The result will be returned to you at the end of the night phase.

'sup shorty. You're an Elf. Find that Grinch and get him out of here! However, you could be Frosty the Snowman or Ebenezer Scrooge (admittedly that makes no sense, but just go with it).

(cue music) Grandma tried to get run over by a reindeer! You are Grandma, and your goal is to get lynched by D2, which is the game equivalent of being ran over. You don't have to worry about getting wolfed, but you will be removed from the game if you don't get lynched by D2. If you are lynched, a random player (besides the Grinch) who voted for you will also be run over by the reindeer (killed) with you. Your win condition does not affect the town/wolf win conditions.

[close]

Players
1. TheZeldaPianist
2. davy
3. BlackDragonSlayer
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. XiaoMigros
6. Oricorio
7. Toby
8. threalmathguy

Role PMs have been sent.

N1 has begun, and will last until:
January 7th, 2023 
9:00p/2100 UTC
1:00p/1300 PST
3:00p/1500 CST
4:00p/1600 EST
10:00p/2200 CET

This phase will be slightly longer than 24hrs just to accommodate the game starting and people seeing it.

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Finally! Welcome back everybody. Far too long it has been.

[Oricorio]

Let's get this started! Personally, I think we should avoid lynching Grandma, as town wouldn't benefit at all and would only lose a member. Only one wolf and one bulletproof townie makes it seem difficult for wolves to win, who knows, maybe we'll have our first town victory in a while here! Still, we can't take it for granted.

[davy]

Since both blue roles are pretty important, it's probably best not to lose one of them to try to set up an alliance.

So let's consider what seering results we can get today:

Red result: reveal is a 50% to straight up win us the game, probably worth it.
Blue result: guaranteed Santa. Free to claim to him.
Green result: with no Master Wolf, this is a guaranteed human. Also free to claim.
Orange result: Guaranteed Grandma. Probably fine to claim since grandma can win with the humans. Also means we have control over her win condition instead of having to take a shot in the dark.

So I guess any kind of result is very helpful to us at this stage of the game. Just need to hope we avoid the 1 in 7 of Rudolph getting sniped N1.

[Oricorio]

Since both blue roles are pretty important, it's probably best not to lose one of them to try to set up an alliance.

So let's consider what seering results we can get today:

Red result: reveal is a 50% to straight up win us the game, probably worth it.
Blue result: guaranteed Santa. Free to claim to him.
Green result: with no Master Wolf, this is a guaranteed human. Also free to claim.
Orange result: Guaranteed Grandma. Probably fine to claim since grandma can win with the humans. Also means we have control over her win condition instead of having to take a shot in the dark.

So I guess any kind of result is very helpful to us at this stage of the game. Just need to hope we avoid the 1 in 7 of Rudolph getting sniped N1.

Of course, a green result will only be 100% reliable tonight, and a red result will go down in reliability as the game goes on. Two red results would basically force a thunderdome though.

A nice thing is that, since there is only one wolf, there is no need to guess the alignments of dead people.

[Oricorio]

And you also have to be careful over whether you can get Grandma to claim, as Grandma is immune to wolfing so it may benefit town to keep that in the dark. If Grandma is close to achieving their win condition, though, they can probably be outed as it would require a convoluted scenario for the Grinch to die via Grandma. You always have to keep in mind that ITPs are on there own side and cannot be fully trusted to side with town.

[Oricorio]

Keep in mind that if we lynch Grandma, that's one less chance to lynch the Grinch, and since they'll be ejected anyway there's no need to worry about them. In an eight-player game, a POE of three wins the game, although we can get a little more leeway if the Grinch attempts to wolf Grandma or the bulletproof townie.

[SpecsFlyer17]

Quick rules update because of a scenario that I thought of that didn't have an explanation:

If the Grinch correctly guesses Santa and is Seer'd by Rudolph that same night, the result will be green.

[Oricorio]

So greens aren't 100%. Still, that scenario does seem rather unlikely.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

i'm here and ready to get g r i n c h y

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Personally, I think we should avoid lynching Grandma, as town wouldn't benefit at all and would only lose a member.

Makes sense. Feels sorta like a softball comment, but it doesn't hurt to spell things out explicitly sometimes.

Though, to build on your comment, we should definitely try to suss out who Grandma is specifically so we can avoid the possibility of accidentally lynching Grandma.

Since both blue roles are pretty important, it's probably best not to lose one of them to try to set up an alliance.

I might be misreading this, but what you're saying is that it's not worth one of the specials claiming to set up an alliance? That makes sense, and if that's the case I agree with you there, but just wanted to clarify.

Like both Davy/Oricorio have said, since there isn't any way for a player to be made red (only the Grinch can chance color if he hits Santa), if we get a red seering that's our best bet for a lynch. If Rudolph gets a red seering it may be worth it for Rudolph to contact a random player they trust to reveal the red seering instead of revealing the results themselves—since there's only one wolf there shouldn't be any false claiming shenanigans (and if the player they claim to is the Grinch, Rudolph would die either way).

[Oricorio]

Another thing we have to consider is if the Grinch's power effects parity. For instance, if it was F3 and one of the townies had their vote removed, most hosts would call it as a wolf victory. Unless you're willing to determine the outcome of the game on a coin flip, can anyone clarify what the standard for this site is?

[Oricorio]

Anyway, half the people still haven't showed up, but it's never too early to start making reads. TZP just posted once and then completely dipped, what gives? GTH wolf. Same with davy, really, although his post at least has a bit more content even if it's still very milquetoast. I guess BDS is the closest thing I have to a townread for being the only one seemingly trying to get involved, but even that seems a bit much grace to give to such a minimal contribution in the grand scale of things. Seriously, where is everyone? Why have half the people not shown up when the phase is effectively more than halfway over (given the lack of people who are typically up at this hour)

[Oricorio]

Worst-case scenario for town:
N1: Town player is wolfed, 1-5-1
D1: Mislynch, 1-4-1
N2: Town is wolfed, 1-3-1
D2: Mislynch and Grandma is ejected or Grandma lynch kills one town, 1-2
N3: Town is wolfed, 1-1 and game

In fact, to be truly safe we can have a PoE of only two. Although the Grinch hitting Grandma or the bulletproof townie would give us a third lynch to play around with

[Oricorio]

Worst-case scenario for town:
N1: Town player is wolfed, 1-5-1
D1: Mislynch, 1-4-1
N2: Town is wolfed, 1-3-1
D2: Mislynch and Grandma is ejected or Grandma lynch kills one town, 1-2
N3: Town is wolfed, 1-1 and game

In fact, to be truly safe we can have a PoE of only two. Although the Grinch hitting Grandma or the bulletproof townie would give us a third lynch to play around with

Although even that is assuming an F3 can't be jeopardized by the Grinch's Naughty List. We're probably going to have to assume that we have only two lynches in the entire game.