TWG CXVII: The Lantern Keeper Redux Postgame

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Number one, I'm not exactly impressed for being suspected simply because I made pushes and tried to gather information, I.e. exactly how I play the game. There were some things I wouldn't have done as town, like promoting a lot of pro-Strange Man propaganda when I would have been more skeptical as a villager, but simply making pushes is NAI for me and I'd think you'd all realize it if you played in more highposting communities.

What stood out to me is doing it in a night start game vs. day start, and the way you were going about it. It didn't feel like generating information, it just felt like trying to get people to talk, which in this game felt like something the Strange Man would try to do to try and gather info on possible lantern holders, rather than a human looking for wolves.

The one thing I'm dumbfounded by is that you didn't look more into the BDS nightkill. Wolves didn't kill one of the previous lantern holders, which should have told you that at least one of two things was true: Wolves believed my Strange Man claim, meaning I wasn't a wolf, and/or there was at least one wolf in the second set of lantern holders. If you looked into the latter, it would have casted serious doubt on THC being a wolf, though I probably still would have voted them for the self-voting alone.

I'm surprised people didn't look into the kill either, especially since Toby had been seered green and was a more likely candidate for wolfing.

It was last minute. There was only like 15-20 minutes left.

For a real seer, that's just needlessly inviting the risk of a wolf popping on and changing the wolfing.

That was not what I was doing at all. From my view, we had no information and almost no way of getting any. I figured a 50% chance of hitting a wolf was better than nothing.

There's also the chance Davy could've been the master wolf, which is something I was worried about (and why my seering choice went from Davy -> Specs -> Davy ).

I mean, I understand that, it's just the way you've been saying it has sounded rather condescending and I don't really appreciate it. I had good intentions, even if they didn't pan out.

I apologise I don't mean to sound condescending, but I think quite a few people would agree this should be at least a learning opportunity so it doesn't happen again

I think it's a good idea to let the subject rest (for all parties involved). For the time being, everything that needs to be said has already been said.

[Oricorio]

What do you mean in regards to wolves believing the seer is a safe claim? As in a wolf would never counter claim seer ?

Well, not if they thought it had a huge chance of backfiring like that. I've never really seen a wolf fakeclaim or counterclaim Seer/Cop/etc. (until this game lol) and most fake claims come from town (the rest come from Jesters or Lynchers). But this might be my NOC self talking

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

I apologise I don't mean to sound condescending, but I think quite a few people would agree this should be at least a learning opportunity so it doesn't happen again

Absolutely. I am well aware of how bad that play was. Hindsight is 20/20.

Also, THC, never self-vote, it goes against wincon. Despite my reservations about davy and Specs, I still would have voted for you because of that.

I tend to panic in high-stress situations. Plus, I'm still a bit rusty. We only just started playing here again and I hadn't fone games for at least a couple years before that.

[XiaoMigros]

Oricorio, I apologise if I/we were too hard on you initially, your play style this game was quite unlike what I've become accustomed to here. To an extent it was helpful to get the conversation flowing, but the technicalities you delved into are usually left for a later phase here.
Same goes for role reveals usually, I think you pushing strange man-y stuff from the start was an unusual strategy choice from an nsm-twg point of view. I do hope you'll join us again for more games in the future!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Well, not if they thought it had a huge chance of backfiring like that. I've never really seen a wolf fakeclaim or counterclaim Seer/Cop/etc. (until this game lol) and most fake claims come from town (the rest come from Jesters or Lynchers). But this might be my NOC self talking

From a perspective of NSM/LLF TWG (LLF doesn't do TWG anymore unfortunately), wolves fakeclaiming is pretty common (I remember one game on LLF where a wolf won the game by "confirming" himself as a special and worming himself into the special alliance because the real special just didn't show up or bother to claim at all).

I'd say Seer is one of the most common roles to fakeclaim for a wolf (except Guardian, perhaps), especially in games where it's basically impossible for wolves to give a wrong seering result.

[XiaoMigros]

THC, no hard feelings, but everything about you screamed wolf to me from beginning to end. The initial low involvement and sudden rise in activity once specs/davy were coming under fire, plus the extremely disruptive seer claim, all went a little too far. i did briefly consider the option you were a human, trying to stop the wolves from figuring out who the seer was, but that theory was a little far-fetched and you weren't really able to back up your decision in my eyes. kinda a shame because i really felt we as town were getting somewhere and was looking forward to how things would continue, but oh well... some games be like that

[SpecsFlyer17]

Go look at page 7 of the game. It's entirely Oricorio except one Poet post saying how she isn't sure what's happening lol.

Yeah, Oricorio's strategy initially came off to me as super unhelpful, but I think there's a place for it. It grew on me, and discussion is good!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

THC, no hard feelings, but everything about you screamed wolf to me from beginning to end. The initial low involvement and sudden rise in activity once specs/davy were coming under fire, plus the extremely disruptive seer claim, all went a little too far. i did briefly consider the option you were a human, trying to stop the wolves from figuring out who the seer was, but that theory was a little far-fetched and you weren't really able to back up your decision in my eyes. kinda a shame because i really felt we as town were getting somewhere and was looking forward to how things would continue, but oh well... some games be like that

Yeah, after THC called me out for asking the Strange Man to claim (post Oricorio lynch) I DM'd him and thought his response was suspicious too.

Go look at page 7 of the game. It's entirely Oricorio except one Poet post saying how she isn't sure what's happening lol.

Yeah, Oricorio's strategy initially came off to me as super unhelpful, but I think there's a place for it. It grew on me, and discussion is good!

I DM'd several people saying that I was deliberately staying out of the thread at times to avoid a lengthy discussion with Oricorio Probably would've added another 5-10 pages of just the two of us if I had played ball like I was itching to do. In a day start game (or if other people had been more active) I probably would've, too.

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

The initial low involvement

Nah, I was serious about why I wasn't around. A combination of Mario Wonder just coming out and a few bad days at work leaving me with no mental energy.

THC, no hard feelings

None taken. I understand completely.

[Oricorio]

Go look at page 7 of the game. It's entirely Oricorio except one Poet post saying how she isn't sure what's happening lol.

Yeah, Oricorio's strategy initially came off to me as super unhelpful, but I think there's a place for it. It grew on me, and discussion is good!

Just saying, if I'm around, you should probably change your forum settings to fifty posts per page

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Phase-by-phase breakdown is up. Player analyses are partially written, I'll post those and awards tomorrow.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Also, a comment from a TWC perspective: when Toby entered the game, I believe TZP sent him PMs that Robbie received, and Toby was unsure whether he could post them?

I'm of the perspective that, on account of the replacement, those PMs should be treated as if they were the original PMs for the sake of not posing a disadvantage to the incoming replacement (i.e. all rules that would apply to the original PMs would still apply). Interested to see if Davy has anything to add on the subject.

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

Phase-by-phase breakdown is up. Player analyses are partially written, I'll post those and awards tomorrow.

Dumbest Play in NSM TWG History goes toooo...

ThatHiddenCharacter!

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Also, a comment from a TWC perspective: when Toby entered the game, I believe TZP sent him PMs that Robbie received, and Toby was unsure whether he could post them?

I'm of the perspective that, on account of the replacement, those PMs should be treated as if they were the original PMs for the sake of not posing a disadvantage to the incoming replacement (i.e. all rules that would apply to the original PMs would still apply). Interested to see if Davy has anything to add on the subject.

This is a good catch--when Toby joined, I sent him everything that Robbie had received so that he would be completely up to date, and it hadn't occurred to me that sharing those would be frowned upon. I tend to agree with you, the clear intent was for me to be "forwarding" them to him.

[A# Minor]

wow, I'm so good at this.

I guess you are