TWG CXVII: The Lantern Keeper Redux

[Oricorio]

You're right, it's never too early to start gathering data on people. All I'm saying is that I don't want to incriminate someone based on nothing but an introduction post. Let's see how things develop.

My question is, if "it's never too early to start gathering data on people", why aren't you doing that?

[XiaoMigros]

Like, it'd be one thing if that post tried to glean alignment or infer something based on my interactions with other players, but that post contains nothing that's solve-y

so why is it wolfy then

[XiaoMigros]

getting town vibes from you but this doesnt seem like the best way to play this game, will only add unnecessary confusion for everyone if we keep delving into this level of detail

[Oricorio]

so why is it wolfy then

I've explained it many times; it doesn't come from a place of genuinely trying to solve the gamr

[A# Minor]

and a stern talking-to by Nakah.

don't resurrect the dead.

[therealmathguy]

From a strategy perspective, what do we think about trying to get an early strange man claim?

I think it would be beneficial because:

• the seer can avoid running into him and facing the consequences (I assume seer dies at the hands of strange man)
• the strange man is more valuable to humans since he takes a wolf down guaranteed along with the lantern holders and therefore anyone pushing for his lynch is likely wolf
• can't be wolfed so no harm in claiming if humans don't want him gone
• any fraudulent claims are likely wolf

Is there anything from a wolf perspective that I'm failing to consider that would stop this from being beneficial to humans and strange man alike?

[BlackDragonSlayer]

From a strategy perspective, what do we think about trying to get an early strange man claim?

I think it would be beneficial because:

• the seer can avoid running into him and facing the consequences (I assume seer dies at the hands of strange man)
• the strange man is more valuable to humans since he takes a wolf down guaranteed along with the lantern holders and therefore anyone pushing for his lynch is likely wolf
• can't be wolfed so no harm in claiming if humans don't want him gone
• any fraudulent claims are likely wolf

Is there anything from a wolf perspective that I'm failing to consider that would stop this from being beneficial to humans and strange man alike?

Ideally, neither the humans nor the wolves want the Strange Man to win, but the wolves are much more likely to win with the strange man, IMO, since (in an ideal situation for the wolves) only one wolf dies, but three humans die. Of course, this would vary depending on who the lantern holders are.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

On the subject of the Strange Man, I was gonna wait to post this until later in the phase, but I feel that Oricorio has been stewing long enough for me to feel confident enough bringing it up now: I think Oricorio might be the Strange Man. Put quite simply, he calls my posts not "solve-y" enough, yet none of his posts are really "solve-y" either: they feel more like talking for the sake of talking, and to get people talking for the sake of talking rather than actually contributing information to the human team.

Oricorio's actions make sense in a day start game, as such behavior is necessarily evil in day start games (you have nothing to go off of and basically have to lynch someone), but in a night start without super complex mechanics (at least compared to the last two games which kinda warranted strategy discussions), the first big piece of information comes from the first nightkill and then seeing how people act when lynch targets get thrown around—this early in the game, basically everyone knows that throwing around accusations is toothless, so nobody takes it seriously. Mostly all it accomplishes is spinning your wheels.

In a night start game like this one, such behavior ranges anywhere from dubious helpfulness to actively unhelpful. And why would it be unhelpful? Well, why would someone want to get people talking for the sake of talking in the first place? I think he's trying to get people to accidentally slip that they're lantern holders and, similarly, get those same people to slip the identities of their lantern buddies. Hence, why I think he might be the Strange Man.

If you want an example of why I think Oricorio's posts are talking for the sake of talking and not actually trying to be "solve-y", take this recent exchange:

My question is, if "it's never too early to start gathering data on people", why aren't you doing that?

The question he's asking is completely pointless, as it is already answered in the post he's quoting:

You're right, it's never too early to start gathering data on people. All I'm saying is that I don't want to incriminate someone based on nothing but an introduction post. Let's see how things develop.

[Oricorio]

On the subject of the Strange Man, I was gonna wait to post this until later in the phase, but I feel that Oricorio has been stewing long enough for me to feel confident enough bringing it up now: I think Oricorio might be the Strange Man. Put quite simply, he calls my posts not "solve-y" enough, yet none of his posts are really "solve-y" either: they feel more like talking for the sake of talking, and to get people talking for the sake of talking rather than actually contributing information to the human team.

Oricorio's actions make sense in a day start game, as such behavior is necessarily evil in day start games (you have nothing to go off of and basically have to lynch someone), but in a night start without super complex mechanics (at least compared to the last two games which kinda warranted strategy discussions), the first big piece of information comes from the first nightkill and then seeing how people act when lynch targets get thrown around—this early in the game, basically everyone knows that throwing around accusations is toothless, so nobody takes it seriously. Mostly all it accomplishes is spinning your wheels.

In a night start game like this one, such behavior ranges anywhere from dubious helpfulness to actively unhelpful. And why would it be unhelpful? Well, why would someone want to get people talking for the sake of talking in the first place? I think he's trying to get people to accidentally slip that they're lantern holders and, similarly, get those same people to slip the identities of their lantern buddies. Hence, why I think he might be the Strange Man.

If you want an example of why I think Oricorio's posts are talking for the sake of talking and not actually trying to be "solve-y", take this recent exchange:The question he's asking is completely pointless, as it is already answered in the post he's quoting:

Except why do we have to wait for "information" to get things started? Especially when there are multiple possible deaths at night due to the Strange Man, so results could be muddled and it's best to start getting things done immediately. Why are you so fundamentally opposed to pushing the game forward?

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Except why do we have to wait for "information" to get things started? Especially when there are multiple possible deaths at night due to the Strange Man, so results could be muddled and it's best to start getting things done immediately. Why are you so fundamentally opposed to pushing the game forward?

That's the thing: what you're doing isn't pushing the game forward, it's just spinning your wheels and needlessly muddying the waters, like Xiao and A# (I have been corresponding with A# via PM) have both already said as well.

Contrast mathguy's recent post, which I think was a fair, genuine discussion of strategy.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

On that note, I think everybody except for Robbie89 has posted at least once. What are everyone's thoughts on what mathguy brings up, and what I brought up about Oricorio?

[Oricorio]

On that note, I think everybody except for Robbie89 has posted at least once. What are everyone's thoughts on what mathguy brings up, and what I brought up about Oricorio?

Apparently, "everybody except for Robbie89" doesn't include ThatHiddenCharacter (unless I missed something). Noted for the future

[Oricorio]

That's the thing: what you're doing isn't pushing the game forward, it's just spinning your wheels and needlessly muddying the waters, like Xiao and A# (I have been corresponding with A# via PM) have both already said as well.

Contrast mathguy's recent post, which I think was a fair, genuine discussion of strategy.

Except I am pushing the game forward; without me, the thread would be ten pages at most. What are you doing to push the game forward?

[Oricorio]

There's also the fact that if town is really gonna die tonight this is our only chance to get something out of them. Everyone's contributions help!

[BlackDragonSlayer]

(unless I missed something)

Yes, you did.

On that note, I think everybody except for Robbie89 has posted at least once.

Prime strange man behavior right there

Except I am pushing the game forward; without me, the thread would be ten pages at most. What are you doing to push the game forward?

There's a difference between pushing the game forward and merely generating pages. I should know, because in the last game I made a semi-deliberate attempt to generate pages without doing much to actually push the game forward in the human team's favor (and the exact result of it was that a lot of people who would have contributed were suddenly a lot more hesitant to until the smoke had cleared).

If you're genuinely interested in pushing the game forward, I suggest you take a step back for the time being. Wait until at least a few people give their thoughts on recent events:

On that note, I think everybody except for Robbie89 has posted at least once. What are everyone's thoughts on what mathguy brings up, and what I brought up about Oricorio?