TWG CXVI: Assassin's Gambit (Game Ovev? GAMA OVAR?!)

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I can't help but shake the feeling he's an assassin who made the assumption that he probably only needed to convince one or two people to go along with his plan to get enough traction to get everyone else to follow along.

To elaborate on this, if I had agreed with davy or even not stepped in to the degree that I did, it wouldn't surprise me if the general opinion would likely be much more favored toward going through with the plan.

[davy]

I forgot if I've already mentioned this, but worth noting is that if a ward is up for lynch it's entirely possible for an assassin to subtly defend them/push for an alternative lynch (especially early on before the lynch gains too much traction), which would also invalidate further benefit from davy's plan.

I think I get what you mean, that if wards are subtly protected by their assassin the lynch is more likely to fall on a non-ward and with cold targets and normal townies not defending themselves the lynch is more likely to fall on them. Agree that it diminishes the benifit of my plan, disagree about the degree it diminishes it.

I also didn't follow the logic of a lot of it as any plan we announce an assassin can copy - such as telling humans to not defend themselves. I also feel what we call defending ourselves is very subjective and pushing for another lynch is a given anyway. So I don't really get the logic of the plan at all given everyone is gonna try redirect a lynch anyway, and if you want humans to just play quiet then the assassin will just do that too.

An assassin that is on the chopping block will have to defend themselves or they are going to lose the game. I am fine with an assassin copying town playstyle if it makes us win the game.

There are certain things best left unsaid and this is definitely one

There's no reason this needed to be revealed unless you were using it against someone, which you're not

Kinda agree with Toby that discussing assassin strategy in the thread is probably not a good idea, and that this is something that would have been better to reveal if you actually think you're seeing it happening.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Also, completely unrelated but still worth mentioning, I'm based in US Pacific Time, but my schedule is kinda weird at the moment. Last night I went to bed around 8pm and woke up today about 4am (yes, I woke up and immediately started TWG'ing ). I'm gradually trying to correct it to a more "normal" schedule.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I think I get what you mean, that if wards are subtly protected by their assassin the lynch is more likely to fall on a non-ward and with cold targets and normal townies not defending themselves the lynch is more likely to fall on them. Agree that it diminishes the benifit of my plan, disagree about the degree it diminishes it.

Sure, but at this point it's all the little detracting points adding up, no?

An assassin that is on the chopping block will have to defend themselves or they are going to lose the game. I am fine with an assassin copying town playstyle if it makes us win the game.

That's not different than any manhunt game though, and there's a good reason we don't use similar approaches to manhunt games. Personally, I don't feel as if the involvement of the wards makes that significantly different enough to change that.

Kinda agree with Toby that discussing assassin strategy in the thread is probably not a good idea, and that this is something that would have been better to reveal if you actually think you're seeing it happening.

On that note, I do stand by my vote for davy at the moment. I can't help but shake the feeling he's an assassin who made the assumption that he probably only needed to convince one or two people to go along with his plan to get enough traction to get everyone else to follow along. If davy is one of the assassins, he certainly already realized what I mentioned, and knowing this, would have great incentive to continue to try and convince people to follow through with his plan as a method of gaining better control over the lynch (i.e. davy is playing the game to be assassin vs. assassin rather than town vs. assassin). Backing down entirely, however, would look weird for him at this point (and likely would've had to happen much earlier in our discussion), which is why he's only walked back on the idea in steps until the point when enough people have spoken out against it.

It's not entirely unrelated.

[davy]

That's not different than any manhunt game though, and there's a good reason we don't use similar approaches to manhunt games. Personally, I don't feel as if the involvement of the wards makes that significantly different enough to change that.

Wards and townies that don't count towards the assassin's win con. Disagreed on the second sentence as that is the crux of our dissagreement.

Sure, but at this point it's all the little detracting points adding up, no?

I don't feel so, but I also feel like we've been arguing this enough, and should let the rest of the players voice their thoughts.

Toby, TZP and Specs already did. Toby is against, TZP was initially in favor but has turned against it in his claiming post. Specs is in favor. I'd like to hear what the rest thinks.

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Nah, I was just against people telling the hot targets not to claim. I'm okay with your suggestion to have "normal" humans taking one for the team and allowing themselves to be lynched, particularly on D0. Suspicion list to come later today.

[davy]

Nah, I was just against people telling the hot targets not to claim. I'm okay with your suggestion to have "normal" humans taking one for the team and allowing themselves to be lynched, particularly on D0. Suspicion list to come later today.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. In that case it's:

In favor: davy, TZP, specs
Against: BDS, Toby

Yet to express their opinion: Xiao, Poet, A#, mathguy, THC

[XiaoMigros]

1. XiaoMigros. They are playing very differntly from last game, with very little involvement with the thread.

This is said about me every game :D

[XiaoMigros]

I'm also interested to hear your thoughts on the discussion itself irrespective of davy and me (though, as I said before, it can wait until tomorrow if you're too tired to think properly ).

tbh I don't entirely agree with either of yalls logic, but I still think regular townies not defending themselves is the optimal strategy.
Regular townies don't know if they are a ward, their death has a significant chance of being helpful

[XiaoMigros]

Also to clarify: not defending yourself does not mean you can't push for a different lynch in my book, so a player under fire can still try to get a different lynch going.

This just seems like backpedalling on your own idea to get out of a situation if needed, sus

[XiaoMigros]

hmm, actually, the benefit of hitting a ward gets cancelled out by the un-benefit of hitting a hot target, so I'm not sure it matters what we do here either way so long as we are strategic about it

[XiaoMigros]

also what does cardflipping mean?

[A# Minor]

it's when someone's color and/or role gets revealed


cardflips were on in that nothing special game, if that helps


also I knew I should've stayed up last night :')

[BlackDragonSlayer]

tbh I don't entirely agree with either of yalls logic, but I still think regular townies not defending themselves is the optimal strategy.
Regular townies don't know if they are a ward, their death has a significant chance of being helpful

This is why I brought up the possibility of the ward being soft-defended by their assassin. If the assassin didn't know the ward identity, then I could see it being more optimal to risk it.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

also what does cardflipping mean?

TZP asked the same question whether it's just color or full role. Hasn't been answered yet.