twg cxiv: nothing special 2: electric boogaloo

[XiaoMigros]

okey dokey, i vote kaiveran

[XiaoMigros]

and I'm not a wolf.

well i guess that settles it then

this game is so over

[A# Minor]

[XiaoMigros]

fellow towns: please try to save your votes for as long as possible. if kaiveran is town, we have already lost. if kaiveran is a wolf, we can still win if we all vote for them

[Kaiveran]

I'm still here but most definitely not going to stay up all the way to EoD.

A#, Zelda, Gadd, do you need anything else from me? Or anything you haven't put on the table that might contraindicate my vote?

I'll pore over the last couple pages again, but I'm honestly not confident enough in anyone else right now.

[A# Minor]

fellow towns: please try to save your votes for as long as possible. if kaiveran is town, we have already lost. if kaiveran is a wolf, we can still win if we all vote for them

Sounds to me like you're a wolf who's trying to distract us because you're at risk of being lynched.
(Also, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh earlier; I tend to get worked up for things like this.)

[A# Minor]

Now, I'm not saying I think Kaiveran is human, I just wanted to point that out

[XiaoMigros]

Sounds to me like you're a wolf who's trying to distract us because you're at risk of being lynched.

Again, this argument isnt very well founded. If I was wolf, it would make sense for me to say what I did, if I was town, the same...
It seems to me you still have no tangible reason to suspect me. Maybe thats why you havent voted for me yet..?

[XiaoMigros]

Now, I'm not saying I think Kaiveran is human, I just wanted to point that out

join meee, vote for them

[A# Minor]

Again, this argument isnt very well founded. If I was wolf, it would make sense for me to say what I did, if I was town, the same...
It seems to me you still have no tangible reason to suspect me. Maybe thats why you havent voted for me yet..?

No, I'm waiting to see what happens. I'll be up 2 hours before the phase end so I can make a final decision, but I do have my eyes on you

[Kaiveran]

Might as well address previously voiced concerns while I'm here:

Assuming that I'm reading correctly, it appears that Kaiveran would've sent their PM to TZP very shortly after me. I suppose they thought they were poking the beast by PMing me and were lying to my face from the start?

Like, even if the timing here is correct (contravening mine), I've already explained the purpose of the message and how it fits into my town approach. And where's the pro-wolf angle here? I know by putting that out there to a third party, they're probably gonna reveal it sooner or later. If wolf!Kai wanted to mislead you - the townie with the biggest mouth and the most pull - into voting wrong, I would be feeding you bullshit reads of other players, not yourself. If I didn't have any ideas and just wanted to abuse and/or twist your private words for clout, I would have just killed you N2 so would no longer be here to reveal the trickery.

So in this PM, I was very thrown off by the random message toward the end of N2 from a person I was suspicious of, and so while it did seem somewhat town, I knew this could be a wolf play so I just threw suspicion at TZP being paired with Xiao with enough effort to make it... how do I word this? Basically, I was still suspicious of Kaiveran, so I didn't want to put in no effort and make it clear that I suspected them, thus increasing my chances of getting wolfed that night. I also PM'd A# when I read their message, talking about how weird it is (and I can provide PM receipts for that as well if you wish). It seems to me like Kaiveran and I were mutually suspicious of each other and wanted to ensure that someone would investigate the other should we end up dead the next day.

Ahh, so your message had an element of subterfuge as well.

Can I just say that this is a completely reasonable interaction between townies in this tradition who are unsure of each other? The degrees of uncertainty might be different between us, but the approach is the same. Send select bits of information, feel out the responses for potential signs of alignment, and proceed from there. It's not at all unusual...for us, anyways.

[XiaoMigros]

The more you reassure everyone that you're town, the more over the game is, regardless of whether you actually are

[A# Minor]

The more you reassure everyone that you're town, the more over the game is, regardless of whether you actually are

I'm... I'm confused. I think I'm going to sleep now.

[Kaiveran]

I can try my best but im running on fumes (which is awful timing seeing as Kaiveran just got on)

Basically, his reasoning for all of that makes sense to me. He was encouraging activity from the start, and while you and I have differing beliefs about the relative importance of activity, I believe it is objectively good for town for any activity to happen. Obviously, with D1 there isn't going to be a ton of grounds for any solid-read lynch votes, which leads to people grasping at straws (as you saw with me against A# and TZP for coinciding in their thought process about BDS's death). It's just that TZP took it one step further to actually formally accuse/vote on someone. I've seen that strategy before from a town, and it's worked exactly as TZP described by putting someone "in the hot seat", and the fact that he specifically went for someone he knew would respond (thus encouraging more activity) is, again, something that can only help town. Yes, it led to a mislynch, but we've gotten significantly more information and discussion that night not otherwise have happened had TZP not made that early first move. And he's also right that D1 lynch is very often a mislynch; I'd actually be curious to see the stats breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet that it happens more often than not that D1 ends in a mislynch. His fears also of people not saying anything are very founded regarding the very long TWG dry spell here; I was worried about that myself, hence I tried drumming up conversation as much as possible.

Hopefully that gives some insight into my thought process. I hope Kaiveran doesn't take too much longer bc I'm actively shutting down :')

(Replying to E Gadd)
That is all understandable, but as an experienced player I'm sure they would do so regardless of whether they are town or wolf. Fitting your vision of good play would be a necessity for any side, right? So again, this doesn't seem like enough evidence to make them trustworthy, at least not in my eyes.

This is a bit of a pickle, actually. While Gadd's reasoning for town!TZP is sound and aligns with my early impressions – and as an aside, it should be pretty clear now why I chose TZP to hedge my bets on and why I've been thinking wolves are Xiao/A#.
But it gets really whyfoamy when you consider the creeping pressure that Xiao has been under basically all Day....Xiao actually makes some points here, and wolf!Xiao might actually have decided that telling the truth about wolf!TZP might have been the right side of the coin to go on, to give him towncred on the way out.

And while wolf!A# wouldn't be able to arraigne a hammer in this situation, the patience and lack of casing or pushing here gives me pause, because why would she not try to secure the best option for her unless she was legitimately unsure what that option was?

All that I can say for certain is that I will give my all to figuring out the best partner toNight. No stone unturned.

[Kaiveran]

The more you reassure everyone that you're town, the more over the game is, regardless of whether you actually are

Nah, bro.
The only way both of us are town at this point is if the wolf team is exactly A# and TZP, and TZP isn't responding to her harried PMs to help wolf rush.
That's literally the only situation that would make sense. And I haven't seen it from you.