twg cxiv: nothing special 2: electric boogaloo

[E. Gadd Industries]

It's a possibility that I've considered. But

quote author=E. Gadd Industries link=topic=12724.msg434702#msg434702 date=1691390092]
Agree with all of this, even more convinced now that it's Xiao and Kaiveran. Even Kaiveran themselves said they didn't interact much with Xiao and that they've been "ships passing in the night".

But yes, I can back you up on your statement about your general thoughts on Olimar as the day phase progressed. Although, with the amount of suspicion I'm getting, I'm not sure how much that helps your case :/ but, everything you describe is exactly how it happened, if at least in what you told me in PMs
[/quote]

This post (er, the one I'm responding to here) seems genuine. And all of it checks out from my PM history with him. It's not even about how he views A#'s role at this point, because you're right in that he could be doing that as a wolf to gain my trust.

[Kaiveran]

fuck me

had to stay late because of an issue at work, and subsequently was late to transition the game I'm hosting.

i'm feeling very draggy but I would feel like a failure at life if I didn't catch up and do something resembling an analysis, so here I go.

[XiaoMigros]

This post (er, the one I'm responding to here) seems genuine. And all of it checks out from my PM history with him. It's not even about how he views A#'s role at this point, because you're right in that he could be doing that as a wolf to gain my trust.

But all that post is doing is explaining why he's not a wolf because of the Olimar thing? I don't see why this specifically would make him trustworthy. Would you mind elaborating?

[E. Gadd Industries]

I can try my best but im running on fumes (which is awful timing seeing as Kaiveran just got on)

Basically, his reasoning for all of that makes sense to me. He was encouraging activity from the start, and while you and I have differing beliefs about the relative importance of activity, I believe it is objectively good for town for any activity to happen. Obviously, with D1 there isn't going to be a ton of grounds for any solid-read lynch votes, which leads to people grasping at straws (as you saw with me against A# and TZP for coinciding in their thought process about BDS's death). It's just that TZP took it one step further to actually formally accuse/vote on someone. I've seen that strategy before from a town, and it's worked exactly as TZP described by putting someone "in the hot seat", and the fact that he specifically went for someone he knew would respond (thus encouraging more activity) is, again, something that can only help town. Yes, it led to a mislynch, but we've gotten significantly more information and discussion that night not otherwise have happened had TZP not made that early first move. And he's also right that D1 lynch is very often a mislynch; I'd actually be curious to see the stats breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet that it happens more often than not that D1 ends in a mislynch. His fears also of people not saying anything are very founded regarding the very long TWG dry spell here; I was worried about that myself, hence I tried drumming up conversation as much as possible.

Hopefully that gives some insight into my thought process. I hope Kaiveran doesn't take too much longer bc I'm actively shutting down :')

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

Man I love how everyone this game has been so respectful towards me...

While I don't believe anyone had been intending hostility or disrespect, I would be remiss as host to not address this.

When writing a message, regardless of how tired or drained you may be, I implore that you reread what you write before you send and think how what you've said might be taken by someone. Some people (such as myself) have a lot of trouble with subtext, often missing it or adding it where there is none. As someone who has consistently been on both the giving and receiving end of such affairs, I can say with certainty that no party is happy when it happens. So I just ask that you try and be mindful of your words. We're here to have fun, and it's all of our duties to make sure everyone gets to have fun. Thank you for reading.

Alright, back to the box seats I go. If there's an insta while I'm still at work, I won't be able to make the post until I'm home, but all votes will be final at that point.

[XiaoMigros]

(Replying to E Gadd)
That is all understandable, but as an experienced player I'm sure they would do so regardless of whether they are town or wolf. Fitting your vision of good play would be a necessity for any side, right? So again, this doesn't seem like enough evidence to make them trustworthy, at least not in my eyes.

[Kaiveran]

Ahh, I see the (fox)cat is out of the bag here.

First things first: the 36 wolfing. This caught me way off guard. I've had more than one of you tell me that you each thought you were next on the chopping block. To be honest I have absolutely no clue what to make of them, in part because I really thought the same thing about myself. E. Gadd made an absolute meal in my PMs saying that if he died night 2 that at least 2 people were going straight for my lynch the next day (1). It struck me as ostentatious and ingenuine to a degree that I felt like I was being set up.

A# also was expressing suspicion to me of E. Gadd, specifically because of the case E. Gadd was making about the two of us being weirdly synchronized in our comments on the BDS wolfing (no one has to believe this if they don't want to, but A# will confirm if you ask her)

Then I got this from Kaiveran late in the night phase, right the hell out of nowhere:[my deadhanding PM](2)

If Kai and E. Gadd were both telling the truth, 3 different people thought they were on the chopping block night 2. But it's not possible that Kai and E. Gadd were both telling the truth (not unless Xiao and A# are wolves togetehr , which is close to an impossibility in my mind (3)). And given what A# and I had discussed I was at least a little more inclined to trust Kai over E. Gadd. So I was 100% ready to push for an E. Gadd lynch today if I survived. And then 36 died.

Wolfing 36 is literally the polar opposite end of the spectrum from wolfing BDS. Because 36 was so laconic with his posts, there's comparatively not much information at all to be gleaned from his wolfing--he didn't really array himself either with or against anybody. So right now I'd like to hear from both E. Gadd and Kai exactly what it was they were talking about in PMs that made Kai so concerned about getting wolfed (4), because I was very surprised to see 36's obituary in the day update, and I'm wondering if someone made a last-second switch in wolfing target.

First off, WTF is going on in (1)? I hope these PMs are made public either by the current end of this thread, because this sounds like something that a townie doesn't do unless they really have dirt or they really wanna pressure a scumread for a straight answer.

(2) Yeah, I foreshadowed my own strategy in a post, what about it? Seriously though, I really wanted to get back to basics as this is the first OC game I've played in literal years, and with me wanting to hash things out with Gadd but simultaneously not wanting to put all my eggs in one basket, I figured this was the perfect opportunity to put that old trick to work.

As for the nature of this publicization, I kinda want to lean it town because any wolf worth their salt would subsequently kill me and have the perfect alibi to go after E. Gadd for the win D2– or, if they didn't think they had the rhetorical skills to take him on, just keep it tucked in DMs and pocket me into voting for their pet mislynch. Then again sitting on it this long into a potential F5 kinda bugs me. Point 4 will answer a bit more.

(3) Again, I'm really not seeing what's so impossible about a Xiao/A# pairing. I think this should be quite obvious from what little I've posted this phase previously, but please do field any questions if you're still around.
(4) Well, deadhanding isn't exactly "OMG I'm so scared I'm gonna get wolfed!" It's really just a hedged bet. Gadd was truly my top townread, but as always, I know that top townread can sometimes be wrong, and I feel doubly obligated to consider that possibility when we have to axe a wolf this phase to win. His response had nothing to do with it – if both of y'all check timestamps I'm pretty sure I sent the deadhand before Gadd replied to me. I just gave myself a little lifeline, a "just-in-case" so that if I did get screwed by wolf!Gadd, it woudn't go totally unanswered for. It's a neat thing that OC lets you do and damn if I won't take advantage of it.

[Kaiveran]

Okay, with the timing and everybody coinking out, this obviously isn't gonna work.
So let's make this real simple.Vote: XiaoPractically nobody thinks he's town, so he's probably just a wolf.
E.Gadd, this is suicide if I'm Xiao's partner because you called out our BS for all to see and killing you won't put it away.Let's do it and argue another Day.

[E. Gadd Industries]

(Replying to E Gadd)
That is all understandable, but as an experienced player I'm sure they would do so regardless of whether they are town or wolf. Fitting your vision of good play would be a necessity for any side, right? So again, this doesn't seem like enough evidence to make them trustworthy, at least not in my eyes.

But you say that assuming that he's specifically targeting my vision for good play. Not to mention, he was active about the same time I was iirc, so this isn't like a scenario where he escalates to match my level of activity.

[XiaoMigros]

But you say that assuming that he's specifically targeting my vision for good play.

Not specifically your vision, just the general consensus here on how to get the game going

[E. Gadd Industries]

Ahh, I see the (fox)cat is out of the bag here.
First off, WTF is going on in (1)? I hope these PMs are made public either by the current end of this thread, because this sounds like something that a townie doesn't do unless they really have dirt or they really wanna pressure a scumread for a straight answer.

(2) Yeah, I foreshadowed my own strategy in a post, what about it? Seriously though, I really wanted to get back to basics as this is the first OC game I've played in literal years, and with me wanting to hash things out with Gadd but simultaneously not wanting to put all my eggs in one basket, I figured this was the perfect opportunity to put that old trick to work.

As for the nature of this publicization, I kinda want to lean it town because any wolf worth their salt would subsequently kill me and have the perfect alibi to go after E. Gadd for the win D2– or, if they didn't think they had the rhetorical skills to take him on, just keep it tucked in DMs and pocket me into voting for their pet mislynch. Then again sitting on it this long into a potential F5 kinda bugs me. Point 4 will answer a bit more.

(3) Again, I'm really not seeing what's so impossible about a Xiao/A# pairing. I think this should be quite obvious from what little I've posted this phase previously, but please do field any questions if you're still around.
(4) Well, deadhanding isn't exactly "OMG I'm so scared I'm gonna get wolfed!" It's really just a hedged bet. Gadd was truly my top townread, but as always, I know that top townread can sometimes be wrong, and I feel doubly obligated to consider that possibility when we have to axe a wolf this phase to win. His response had nothing to do with it – if both of y'all check timestamps I'm pretty sure I sent the deadhand before Gadd replied to me. I just gave myself a little lifeline, a "just-in-case" so that if I did get screwed by wolf!Gadd, it woudn't go totally unanswered for. It's a neat thing that OC lets you do and damn if I won't take advantage of it.

Not replying to all of your message (or the second one) because I need more brainpower to do so than what I'm currently running on. I did want to draw your attention to point 1 though. Underlined is your answer, and it is reiterated in one of my previous messages. Sorry for the sea of them, ik it's hard to get through. But my thinking gets more fragmented toward the night (irl night, not game)

I am curious about your vote, very interesting indeed. PMs with me aren't guaranteed private in any sense of the word and if it needs to be dragged out then so be it. If Xiao's wolf, then we have the time to really figure out who the other is.

[XiaoMigros]

Okay, with the timing and everybody coinking out, this obviously isn't gonna work.
So let's make this real simple.Vote: XiaoPractically nobody thinks he's town, so he's probably just a wolf.
E.Gadd, this is suicide if I'm Xiao's partner because you called out our BS for all to see and killing you won't put it away.Let's do it and argue another Day.

I implore you to save your vote for a little longer, if you're town.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Not specifically your vision, just the general consensus here on how to get the game going

Ah, gotcha. Will respond properly in the morning. T_T a little over 4 hours away, blech.

[XiaoMigros]

I implore you to save your vote for a little longer, if you're town.

Unless that is your vote, in which case: great! i will have no choice but to vote for you

[Kaiveran]

(Towards E.Gadd)

Yeah, it's a lot to dig through, but the volume alone I think is testament to you actually clutching it out. Sorry if I've been grating: my approach is no one is confirmed town until the host tells me so, and that can look a lot like unjustified FUD, but it's saved me plenty of times.
-

Meanwhile, I hear the sound of no hammers getting dropped.
And everyone's posted recently too, from a quick look back.
In this gamestate, that means either the voter or the votee is a wolf.
and I'm not a wolf.

Unless that is your vote, in which case: great! i will have no choice but to vote for you

It is.I even prefixed it so it would stand out amid the sea of bold.
and yes, I suppose you don't have a choice.