[3DS] The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures - "The Defendants' Antechamber" by Metamyrrh

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Submission Information:
Series: Ace Attorney
Game: The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures
Console: Nintendo 3DS
Title: The Defendants' Antechamber
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Metamyrrh

[Metamyrrh]

Hello! This is my first time submitting, so please let me know if I've misunderstood anything about the process. Thanks to Atcero for kindly converting my musicxml files!

The titles "The Defendants' Antechamber" and "Variation" are from the English-language albums for the first game and second game's OSTs. (The song plays in both games but the variation is only present in the second, so I wasn't sure which game to file this under)

[Latios212]

Hi, welcome to NinSheetMusic! Happy to see more Great Ace Attorney arrangements, and hopefully the submission process is straightforward enough to navigate with our community members helping out with file conversion stuff ^^

The titles "The Defendants' Antechamber" and "Variation" are from the English-language albums for the first game and second game's OSTs. (The song plays in both games but the variation is only present in the second, so I wasn't sure which game to file this under)

Sometimes we include variations on the same sheet if it makes sense to, but in this case since they're actually from separate games/soundtracks I think it makes the most sense to split them up into two different sheets on site. (Unfortunately you have the limit of two submissions up right now though so one of them may have to wait until after one of your submissions gets accepted and put on site.)

[Metamyrrh]

Hi, welcome to NinSheetMusic! Happy to see more Great Ace Attorney arrangements, and hopefully the submission process is straightforward enough to navigate with our community members helping out with file conversion stuff ^^

I love the Great Ace Attorney OST! I'm definitely interested in arranging more of the songs if my skills are up to par.

Sometimes we include variations on the same sheet if it makes sense to, but in this case since they're actually from separate games/soundtracks I think it makes the most sense to split them up into two different sheets on site. (Unfortunately you have the limit of two submissions up right now though so one of them may have to wait until after one of your submissions gets accepted and put on site.)

Oh, that makes sense. Then this submission/thread can be for the first version, which goes up to measure 26 on the sheet.

[Kricketune54]

Hi! As Latios212 alluded to we have a process where there's two formal feedback rounds (approving the sheet by one updater and then accepting it for site by another).

I would say for this particular arrangement of this track, there are some parts missing that I think make this feel a little empty at the moment. Specifically, there are some low bass notes and harp plucks that when added, will give this arrangement much more of a translation of the chord changes present in the original. I went ahead and did some playing around, came up with an impression of something that could work, using the first four measures as an example. Overall, the goal with arranging should be to both get the best possible representation of the sound of the original, while also making sure that the parts are coherent/work well on piano

 m1-4 rewrite/recommendation

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Would note a few different arranging decisions I made here - sometimes it's better two use both staffs as bass clef for a certain number of measures, which I have done to give the LH (left hand) the bottom staff and the upper staff has that string melody that you had originally, as well as some harp notes where it makes sense. Also, on m1 and m3 beat 3.5 (the 8th note) I lowered the harp C I included an octave down so it doesn't obscure the melody movement in this case.

In m2 on beat 1 though, I have kept the notes in the original octaves for the string melody part (C) and for the harp notes (F and Bb).  My thinking here is that because the C is the octave it is, it wouldn't be good to lower the harp notes below the C given the LH is playing that even lower C already.

I would also point out the small beaming for m1 and m3 - connecting beat 3.5 and 4.5 across the rests makes it more clear that this is a connected part. This same sort of beaming could also be done in m13 LH beat 3.5 and 4.5, and m17 and m21 RH beats 3.5 and 4.5 as well for example.


Please let me know if you have any questions - I think you might want to make these changes in MuseScore and convert as opposed to trying to mess with the NotePad .mus file (you can't make staff changes in NotePad). I will have some additional feedback as we proceed further, but wanted to give you the chance to take my example, and see if you can use it to build out more of the measures with the same thinking 

[Metamyrrh]

Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions! It definitely lit the fire under me to see your example, and I hope the changes I've made are an improvement to the arrangement.

One notable difference from your screenshot - I lowered the Bb in the RH by an octave in m2 and m4, since I didn't want to obscure the melody and I still think it sounds nice. (I hear an Eb in the bass in m2, so I just dropped the F.) In addition to building up the opening, I changed some beaming to better suggest phrasing as you said, added most of the harp plucks, and changed some incorrect notes.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Finale Notepad, but here is a musicxml file with all of the changes I made in MuseScore: https://www.mediafire.com/file/sg4fdoomq50mxph/The+Defendants'+Antechamber+v2.musicxml/file

[Kricketune54]

Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions! It definitely lit the fire under me to see your example, and I hope the changes I've made are an improvement to the arrangement.

Glad this feedback was able to inspire you! This is looking a lot better. Looking at your other submission page I understand now how you are going about sheet edits I suppose we can do the same here. If it's not too much to ask, I would like you to also link your musescore file, whether through the MuseScore site, Dropbox, or mediafire. It would be helpful just to see what your sheet looks like before it is converted the musicxml format. At minimum m12-13 is hard to discern without your MuseScore as reference:

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One notable difference from your screenshot - I lowered the Bb in the RH by an octave in m2 and m4, since I didn't want to obscure the melody and I still think it sounds nice. (I hear an Eb in the bass in m2, so I just dropped the F.) In addition to building up the opening, , added most of the harp plucks, and changed some incorrect notes.

Good changes! I can see where there were some incorrect notes lol

I changed some beaming to better suggest phrasing as you said

Wanted to single this bit out - there's still a few areas were this needs some work, and I'm not sure if was misinterpretation of my post but wanted to go through it a little:

• m9, 10, 14, RH, and m13 LH these are examples of beams that should be connected, as they were in your previous files. I should have clarified the only real time you might split the beams a bit would be with a beat 2.5 or beat 4.5, rather than the first beat of a measure. Lmk if you need an additional clarification!
• Not sure if this falls under what you meant by beaming to better show phrasing (or just musicxml being musicxml), but in m17 and m21 LH beat 2.5 should not beam across the measure to beat 3.0. Generally the rule is to not have beaming over the half of the measure, according to the meter (in this case, 4/4 wouldn't beam across beat 2 to beat 3). Here's a good additional reference/explainer if you need to get caught up a bit more on this concept

More stuff:

• The grace notes were good additions - usually people do add slurs to the grace notes from the first grace note up to the actual note that is being "graced".
• m7 LH beat 3.5-to end of measur,e the notes should be Eb-Bb-G (maybe make the Eb, Bb as well given the RH here)
• m7 RH the second half of measure notes should be beamed, same in m9
• m8 RH beat 3.0 there's an Ab technically above here, you could put it below the Db though to add a little more depth.
•m19 and m23 LH this is a good example of a measure that might be better written as two layers. Could have an upper layer that is the dotted quarter F, followed by the 8th note Bb. Then, the bottom layer could just be the G written as a half note (with the half rest in latter half of measure hidden)
•m20 RH beat 3 these two 8th rests should just be a quarter rest
• When this arrangement is a bit further along, I think it might be best to split the measure systems by 4 on the first page, and two on the second. For m26, another general rule is to not have a single measure taking up space like that (by itself), and you could have it be a part of the previous system

Going to hold off on some more additional review of the notes, just wanted to see if you could make a few more edits on some formatting and beaming 

[Metamyrrh]

If it's not too much to ask, I would like you to also link your musescore file, whether through the MuseScore site, Dropbox, or mediafire. It would be helpful just to see what your sheet looks like before it is converted the musicxml format.

I will include this in the mediafire link! Thank you for taking a look still. I know it's an additional inconvenience for updaters and I appreciate your time.

• Not sure if this falls under what you meant by beaming to better show phrasing (or just musicxml being musicxml), but in m17 and m21 LH beat 2.5 should not beam across the measure to beat 3.0. Generally the rule is to not have beaming over the half of the measure, according to the meter (in this case, 4/4 wouldn't beam across beat 2 to beat 3). Here's a good additional reference/explainer if you need to get caught up a bit more on this concept

Oh, here I was actually having some trouble connecting beats 3 and 4 in MuseScore without also connecting 2.5 to 3, but I think I figured it out. Hoping it's all fixed now and translates in the musicxml.

•m19 and m23 LH this is a good example of a measure that might be better written as two layers. Could have an upper layer that is the dotted quarter F, followed by the 8th note Bb. Then, the bottom layer could just be the G written as a half note (with the half rest in latter half of measure hidden)

Just to get a sense of the general rule you're applying here - using two layers is preferable to tying when the hand is holding one note and playing others? Is that right?

Everything else I've addressed. I'll remember about beaming for the future! Updated musicxml and mscz: https://www.mediafire.com/file/wgo43gng203sei4/The+Defendants'+Antechamber+v3.zip/file

[Kricketune54]

I will include this in the mediafire link! Thank you for taking a look still. I know it's an additional inconvenience for updaters and I appreciate your time.
Oh, here I was actually having some trouble connecting beats 3 and 4 in MuseScore without also connecting 2.5 to 3, but I think I figured it out. Hoping it's all fixed now and translates in the musicxml.

much appreciated. This is one reason I wanted to see the MuseScore in case there were things that were not coming over great, so this helps a lot

Just to get a sense of the general rule you're applying here - using two layers is preferable to tying when the hand is holding one note and playing others? Is that right?

Generally so, yes. It is partially to be more visually identifiable, but also to just follow common note beaming practices.

It is not regular to see a 4/4 time sig dotted quarter note tied to an 8th note when they are beat 1.0 and beat 1.5 respectively as opposed to just writing that as a half note (i.e. not beaming over the middle of the measure), so if you had two notes . Not always fun to deal with with especially because I typically find I'm backtracking to make a second layer lol.

• To continue on from this bit, m8 LH could be written to have the top Db a separate layer from the bottom Db (in a separate layer written as a whole note)
• I don't know how well this is going to carry from MuseScore to NotePad, but just for your reference, let's talk system spacing a bit. This is what the Finale template file looks like by default:

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Note the distance between the top measure system, and the credits (composer, arranger). I can't exactly remember how to fix this in MuseScore, but I believe you would use the layout palette and the staff spacers! Similarly, I would look at recently sheets' PDF's for reference. The second page systems ideally will line up a bit with the previous pages so it isn't too jarring going between pages; currently your page two is just a little uneven compared to page 1. Could bring the second system up a little bit to line up with page 1's second system.

• The ottava (8va) could move a little to the left in m25 and terminate a little further right after beat 3 in m26. Would look a tad bit cleaner. I'm basing this off of a slide presentation Latios gave like 2 years ago for reference on formatting

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• Gave it another look, I think m9-16 would look a little better, or at minimum, m11 to m16 would work better visually in treble instead of bass clef. Would show separation between staffs/parts more

• m7 RH beat 1.0 not hearing the Ab on top - C instead?
• m7 LH on second thought here - I don't hear the RH C on beat 3.5, so could remove that there, and then make the Bb on LH 3.5 the Eb.
• m11 RH the grace notes sound like C then G.
• m12 hearing this a bit different: no grace note, and remove the F on beat 1.0 in the RH. Add an Eb above the C in the LH on beat 1.0.
• m13 not hearing grace note in LH, beat 1.0 LH sounds like Ab (same octave as the current first grace note). Including screenshot for reference

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   • I think there were a couple measures in this section you were hearing grace notes which should actually just have been on the beat notes.
• m15 LH beats 3 and 4 this figure sounds more like m11 LH, not hearing how currently written. Also, on beat 2.5 you can remove the C in the LH, or you could put it up an octave but with parentheses (showing the RH part plays it)
• m16 LH beat 4.0 and 4.5 - I don't hear the Eb and F on top, I suppose you could keep but you could also add Ab and Bb's above the current ones instead.
• m17 RH: beat 1 the 8th notes should be Eb-Bb-Eb both beats. Beat 4.0 remove top Fn, but put a Bb above the current bottom Fn. This also applies for m21 RH.


I would do a bit of a review from 17-24 on the chords. In a few places I think you are adding pitches to the top of a beat, that chord stacking-wise should not be on the top in the RH like what I've called out in the above measures. For additional examples, m18 I don't hear a Gn on top of this RH first beat, but a Bb. And in the LH, beat 2.5 I hear Ab's still instead of Gn.

Take some time, relisten - it is typically distinctive when two octaves are represented, or how many chord pitches are present. Maybe doing some transcribing all the heard pitches as opposed to arranging could be of further help! I will certainly check the pitches more but this is a good amount of feedback for now, wanted to see if you could give it a pass

[Metamyrrh]

Thank you for the thorough feedback! I tried my best to give the layout some more space. I ended up having to move system 2 on the second page down to align with system 2 on the first page.

Some responses:
m11 RH: Is there a more convenient way to notate that grace note C now that this is in treble clef, or is it fine?
m12 RH: Hmm, I listened again and definitely hear an F in beat 1. It's a continuation of the line that begins with the G in m11. I moved it to be in the right octave and length.
mm12-13 LH: Notated the LH as arpeggiated, is this better?
m15 LH: This was intended to echo m7 LH in addition to the m11 LH line.
m16 LH beats 4 and 4.5: Making these octaves would clash with the RH so I've just left them as single notes.
m17-24: Improved as discussed on Discord, thank you again for providing feedback there

Here are the updated files: https://www.mediafire.com/file/1tq94q0by549xiw/The_Defendants%2527_Antechamber_v4.zip/file

[Eleni Mallette]

I'm unsure of which notes you're referring to; I tried relistening and playing along on the piano, but transposing them up an octave made them sound off. Could you please specify which sections you meant?

[Kricketune54]

Sorry to take a while to get back to you Metamyrrh! I have a lot to add in that time since though. I think this might cover everything from me.

• m11 RH grace note needs a slur
• m12 and 13 nice job on both of these measures and how you rearranged the voices. I don't quite hear the Bb in m12 LH beat 3(the half note), and it sounds a little too heavy there with it, so I would remove
• m12 RH actually thinking it would be good to have the 8th rests unhidden here just so it's clear which beats the 8th notes start on.
• m13 LH 2.5 I think I hear this as a G not Eb
• m16 LH beat 3 you could add a staccato to the F

Let's look a little deeper beyond notes at m17 and on - I tried practicing this part a bit on my own and had some conclusions

• m17 and m21  RH beat 2 this jump to the triangle part is a lot to move up to, combined with what's going on in the LH. Maybe just remove the 8va in both cases here? It's tough to make that two octave jump so maybe just do one.
• m17 and m21 LH I would remove the C on beat 3.0 as it makes the G a bit awkward to reach ascending updwards from the previous notes, and the G is a bit more important here.
• m18 and m22 beat 1 LH Eb should be a G
• m18 and m22 beat 4 LH (the tied notes), I think a C could be added between the G's
• m19 and m23 LH beat 2.5 not hearing a Bb here, so I think you could just make this measure 1 layer and have both notes in the LH a half note.
   • On m19 and m23 as well - I think it would be important to try and emphasize the lower notes a little more on beat 3.0 - maybe you could make this Ab a separate layer and a half note lenght (can just hide the half rest at beginning of measure). You could also extend the pedal marks to end at the end of this measure

• m20 The LH beat 1.0 is actually Eb not D on top.
• m20 RH 4.0 if this C is meant to be the harp part (otherwise not sure what note), it's actually a Bb, same octave as Bb in m21 beat 1. And earlier in the measure, there's a D under the F on beat 2.5 in the RH.
• m21 LH beat 1 I'm thinking this makes a little more sense just being the same as m17 entirely, as opposed to trying to represent the harp here with the roll
• m24 RH second layer, I'm actually not sure what this part is or where it is coming from, if the LH is supposed to be the descending string part here. I'm personally hearing Eb and G half note on beat 1 and D and F on beat 3 in the RH, but am fine with the LH as is.
• m25 another bit of a write recommendation - the strings are all back in the RH for this ending chord, C-Bb-G, with the C's in the LH. This looks like this:

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Let me know if you have any questions!

[Metamyrrh]

Thank you for the feedback and I'm sorry too for the delay in addressing it!

m21 LH: I took out the roll, but as opposed to m17, I don't hear a note in beat 1.5.
m24: Hmm, I hear two string lines clearly. One is this second layer in the RH, and one is the descending one in the LH. Am I mistaken about that?

Everything else has been changed. Here are the updated files: https://www.mediafire.com/file/j08bgfrq87qnubf/The+Defendants'+Antechamber+v5.zip/file

[Kricketune54]

Hey no worries, I think we're at that point now of just tightening things up. Thank you for your patience

• m4 beat 3 RH hearing this as an E, and staccato 8th note length
• m10 I understand from m9-16 there's a bit of mixing in of the harp part, to mostly the LH, but it seems like at m10 the harp is portrayed twice on beat 3 in left and right? Y could remove G on beat 3 in the RH. I would say the same at m14 beat 3, the Bb under the D in the RH. At m14 LH, you could add a G to the top of the rolled half note on beat 3
• m13 RH I think it a little confusing to put the C at the bottom of the chord on beat 1.5 in the RH. It's entirely playable by the LH the way this expression is for all other measures
• Also m13 RH, the beat 4 D sounds like it is full quarter note length.
• Relistened to m19 RH beat 3, for this note C is actually underneath, not Ab. But keep 23 as is.
• m20 RH beat 1 I think F is better than Eb between the Bb's on relisten. For beat 2.5, I have a bit of a correction to my previous feedback, I think you could put both C and D under the F, as the harp plays D, and the string plays the C. If you'd prefer to do one or the other (it is a bit dissonant on piano), I'd do the C as opposed to the D.

m21 LH: I took out the roll, but as opposed to m17, I don't hear a note in beat 1.5.

Still hearing this note on beat 1.5, if you still think it isn't there tho we can leave it up to a future second opinion.

m24: Hmm, I hear two string lines clearly. One is this second layer in the RH, and one is the descending one in the LH. Am I mistaken about that?

Okay, I can hear this now... it's quite quiet and subtle.

[Metamyrrh]

Thank you for shepherding this through the process!

m10: I kept the LH pitch but changed to a staccato 8th and moved to the RH.
m21 LH: Ok, it is more obvious to me that there is a difference between this and m17 in beat 1.5 when low-pass filtered and slowed, but it seems reasonable to include the note since by and large the measures sound the same when they are played back at normal speed.

I agree with everything else and made the changes! Also, I changed the arpeggiated staccato 8th notes in the LH measures 12 and 13 to grace notes for consistency with the other "graced" staccato 8th notes. This shouldn't change the articulation since the notes aren't being held anyway, but let me know if I should change it back. Here are the updated files: https://www.mediafire.com/file/8ov76c9em2wogs0/The+Defendants'+Antechamber+v6.zip/file