[MUL] The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II - "To the Irreplaceable People" by SlimyWyvern

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Submission Information:
Series: Other
Game: The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II
Console: Multiplatform
Title: To the Irreplaceable People
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: SlimyWyvern

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[SlimyWyvern]

[Latios212]

Very nice piece ^^

- m. 4/13 beat 2 - I hear the F written in the left hand as part of the right hand melody?
- m. 17 beat 2 LH - I hear a Bb under the Db
- m. 29/33/37/41 beat 2.5 LH - I hear as an Eb, same as beat 1.5
- m. 32/40 beat 2 LH - I'd suggest taking out the Fb here, you've already got it as the root on beat 1 and it clashes with both the Eb's being played on beat 2
- If you like, you can cross-staff some of the 16ths in m. 32 and have the left hand play a low E on beat 4. Same with m. 40 I guess, although that'd be trickier.
- m. 35/43 beat 4 - I'd suggest taking out the Ab on top of the left hand, it doesn't add anything harmonically and awkwardly clashes with the melody.
- m. 44 - It feels awkward for the higher octave of the melody to simply drop out on beat 2 here. I would suggest cutting the high octaves starting on beat 3.25 of m. 43 instead so the phrase is intact, or alternatively writing in the octaves for the rest of m. 44, moving the harmonies up on beat 2 to fit.
- The last few measures are tricky. I'm hearing something more along these lines:
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[SlimyWyvern]

- m. 4/13 beat 2 - I hear the F written in the left hand as part of the right hand melody?

I had a hard time hearing those as part of the melody and I thought it looked better in the left hand, but I'll move the Fs to the right hand just in case.

- If you like, you can cross-staff some of the 16ths in m. 32 and have the left hand play a low E on beat 4. Same with m. 40 I guess, although that'd be trickier.

Yeah, that's pretty much the only way I figured the left hand would be able to play the E in the bass, though as you said, the rhythm of the melody might make it tricky to play those sixteenth notes in the right hand. I think I'll move only the last two to show that the right hand should be able to play those. Something like this?
 

- m. 44 - It feels awkward for the higher octave of the melody to simply drop out on beat 2 here. I would suggest cutting the high octaves starting on beat 3.25 of m. 43 instead so the phrase is intact, or alternatively writing in the octaves for the rest of m. 44, moving the harmonies up on beat 2 to fit.

I agree that it feels awkward so I decided to do the former.

- The last few measures are tricky. I'm hearing something more along these lines:

Hmm, I'm hearing those first two measures as something more like this:

I wonder if there's a way to incorporate some of those high strings so you can really heard more of that resolution from the G to Ab in m. 46-47.

[Latios212]

Yeah, that's pretty much the only way I figured the left hand would be able to play the E in the bass, though as you said, the rhythm of the melody might make it tricky to play those sixteenth notes in the right hand. I think I'll move only the last two to show that the right hand should be able to play those. Something like this?
 

I'd suggest moving the A on beat 3.75 to the right hand as well so the left hand doesn't have as much of a jump and it's super close to where the RH already is. I'd also recommend moving the 16th rest up a couple of notches

Other than that, I think it'd be best to break the beam between beats 3-4. You may also want to make some manual horizontal adjustments so the notes in beats 4.25-4.5 aren't so close to each other. These couple of suggestions apply to m. 40 as well but it makes more sense for the LH to take the A in this case. For m. 40, you could also flip the RH beats 1-2 back downward since there's nothing below it.

Hmm, I'm hearing those first two measures as something more like this:

Looks good! I do still hear the Db on beat 2.75 though.

I wonder if there's a way to incorporate some of those high strings so you can really heard more of that resolution from the G to Ab in m. 46-47.

Maybe try writing in some harmony in the right hand in m. 46 beat 1?

[SlimyWyvern]

I'd suggest moving the A on beat 3.75 to the right hand as well so the left hand doesn't have as much of a jump and it's super close to where the RH already is. I'd also recommend moving the 16th rest up a couple of notches

Other than that, I think it'd be best to break the beam between beats 3-4. You may also want to make some manual horizontal adjustments so the notes in beats 4.25-4.5 aren't so close to each other. These couple of suggestions apply to m. 40 as well but it makes more sense for the LH to take the A in this case. For m. 40, you could also flip the RH beats 1-2 back downward since there's nothing below it.

I've made these changes and adjusted the note spacing a bit, though maybe not quite manually.

Looks good! I do still hear the Db on beat 2.75 though.

Turns out you were right, so I fixed it again :p

Maybe try writing in some harmony in the right hand in m. 46 beat 1?

Ah well, I tried but the notes I wanted to add overlapped too much with what the right hand was playing anyway and it didn't sound great, so I wrote the harmony in the left hand instead.

Not the best solution, but it's what I have.

If there are any other spacing/layout issues you've noticed, please let me know as my sheets can always use some help with those (I think).

[Latios212]

For m. 32:

Other than that, I think it'd be best to break the beam between beats 3-4.

The beam is broken in the wrong place right now

For m. 40, you could also flip the RH beats 1-2 back downward since there's nothing below it.

Not sure if you missed it, but you can flip beat 2 down too. Regardless, make sure the lower tie leading into beat 3 bends upwards to not conflict with the G in the lower layer.

Ah well, I tried but the notes I wanted to add overlapped too much with what the right hand was playing anyway and it didn't sound great, so I wrote the harmony in the left hand instead.

Not the best solution, but it's what I have.

I like it! From what I can tell, you added the string voice that alternates between Ab and G an octave lower from where it originally is, so it fits with the upper layer of the left hand part. I think m. 46 beat 1 should be G instead of Ab though underneath the Bb in the left hand.

Also, make sure the tie going into m. 45 is bent upwards, to match the tie exiting m. 44.

If there are any other spacing/layout issues you've noticed, please let me know as my sheets can always use some help with those (I think).

Nothing else stood out on a quick skim! But since you asked, I took another slightly closer look and here are a few minor things that could be adjusted:
- When a measure begins with a rolled chord as in m. 19/23/47, I like to use the Measure Tool to add an extra 0.05" of space at the beginning to allow the roll symbol a little room to breathe. (If you do that, you can push them slightly more left than they are now)
- The crescendos (in m. 9/28) would probably better have their left ends placed underneath the notes where they start to take effect (beats 3.5 and 4 respectively) instead of hanging out a bit awkwardly to the left. Similar idea for the dim. at the end. If you do end up adjusting these, you might want to pull the right edge left a bit for symmetry too.
- You could move all the music down on pages 2-3 slightly (by changing the margin for the top system or dragging it down slightly) since there is proportionately a bit more room at the bottom (and the octaves in m. 37 get a bit close to the title).
- You don't have to edit it for this sheet, but one thing to think about: Notice how in some places like the LH in m. 30-31 there is a disproportionately large horizontal gap between beats due to a tie in the right hand that probably takes up a little more horizontal space than it could. You can change the minimum distance between notes with ties under Document > Document Options > Music Spacing. Reducing this from 0.16667 to 0.1, you can notice it looks a bit more natural:

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I would advise changing this setting with caution though, as it can have the adverse effect of allocating too little space to ties when it's needed in places like dense chords. I'd also not suggest editing this setting for all sheets for that reason. That said, reducing it to a value like 0.1 seems to work fine across this sheet. Do note that at least in my Finale, changing the value doesn't redraw everything immediately and you'd need to trigger that (probably a better way but I just click on each measure individually with the Note Entry tool to watch it respace and make sure nothing looks off)

Sorry that was more than I anticipated writing! Everything else looks good! System distribution across pages in particular is done well.

[SlimyWyvern]

The beam is broken in the wrong place right now

Whoops, fixed that.

Not sure if you missed it, but you can flip beat 2 down too. Regardless, make sure the lower tie leading into beat 3 bends upwards to not conflict with the G in the lower layer.

I assume you mean flip beat 3 down? The D flat that was tied to the previous D flat? I flipped that one and the following notes down (those just went automatically) and there looks to be enough space below. I flipped the ties as well.

That said, reducing it to a value like 0.1 seems to work fine across this sheet. Do note that at least in my Finale, changing the value doesn't redraw everything immediately and you'd need to trigger that (probably a better way but I just click on each measure individually with the Note Entry tool to watch it respace and make sure nothing looks off)

Weird, my Finale does that too when I changed the music spacing. It must also really hate ties that go across systems because they tend to disappear whenever I do anything in those measures lol. Anyway, thanks for all those suggestion, Latios! Hopefully everything should look okay now.

[Latios212]

Great, all the edits look good! Skimming one last time, I think that the music on page 3 could be moved back up slightly, and the dim. at the end could use a bit more space between the staves so it's not right up against the stem in the last measure. Aside from that, the dotted 16ths in m. 32 and 40 could use a bit more space if you feel like making manual adjustments but it's not a big deal.

Anyway, that's all I have to say!

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[SlimyWyvern]

Great! I made a few more spacing adjustments on the last page, and that's all I really wanted to work on for now. Again, thanks for all the help!

Edit: I just now realized that I spelled "Irreplaceable" wrong on all of the files, so I quickly fixed that.

[XiaoMigros]

Nice work on this!

• m7: In beat 2 of the LH, I don't hear the Bb. Likewise in m16
• m9: In beat 2 of the LH, the low note is a Bb. Likewise in m18
• m21: Do you want to include the Db in the LH, at beat 2?
• m24+: Thoughts on adding the piano harmony to the RH here? It seems a little off to only have it at the start of m24 but I understand not wanting to heavy a texture
• m28: There's an Eb one octave above the one in the LH, you can add it if you'd like
• m29, 33, 37, 41: There's an Ab under the C in beat 2 of the LH
• m32: This time, the Ab is above the Eb
• m32: The beams in the middle layer could do with some adjusting: I would move the first one up slightly, and the second one probably looks best at the default height.
• m35: I'm not hearing the C at beat 2 in the LH
• m36: For the RH, I think the low notes would be better off in a separate layer to the melody. Also, I would recommend getting the piano in here: There's an F on beat 1, and the Ab is restruck on beat 3.
  For the LH, I hear an Eb at beat 4.5
• m40: I don't think the Fb is in the LH chord at beat 2
• m43: Top note of the beat 2 chord is an Ab
• m44: You wanna add the piano here again, on beat 1?
• m45: I'm not sure on the history of this, but I do hear the LH part as Latios does, with a C on beat 2.5 and a Db on beat 2.75. Did you simplify this for playability reasons, or was there a misunderstanding of some sort?
• m46: Do you think you could fit in an F on beat 3 somewhere? Probably just under the LH chord is best.
• Same goes for beat 1 of m48
  If you want, you could add an Ab under the LH note at beat 3, and the dynamic should be on the same height as the crescendo marking

[SlimyWyvern]

m24+: Thoughts on adding the piano harmony to the RH here? It seems a little off to only have it at the start of m24 but I understand not wanting to heavy a texture

Personally, I think that whole section sounds fine with just the left hand harmony.

m32: This time, the Ab is above the Eb

Sorry, could you clarify a bit?

m45: I'm not sure on the history of this, but I do hear the LH part as Latios does, with a C on beat 2.5 and a Db on beat 2.75. Did you simplify this for playability reasons, or was there a misunderstanding of some sort?

Nah, I probably misheard it. Listening to it again, I think Latios was right so I changed it back to how he said it was.

Thanks for all the other suggestions as well, I've made most of those edits.

[XiaoMigros]

Personally, I think that whole section sounds fine with just the left hand harmony.

I will still suggest this:

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I'm happy accepting even if you'd prefer not to add it, but I do think adding the harmony helps it stand out a little from m20-23. Your call

Sorry, could you clarify a bit?

I meant that I hear an Ab in the LH chord at beat 2, above the Eb. On closer inspection you might not want to add it in though, with the RH playing the same Ab half a beat prior.

Nah, I probably misheard it. Listening to it again, I think Latios was right so I changed it back to how he said it was.

I think there's an Ab being played at beat 2.25, but the rest looks great!

• m35: I'm not hearing the C at beat 2 in the LH

Seems you removed the Eb instead, I'm still hearing this chord as Eb-G

• m7 & 16: Sorry I missed this previously, but the LH plays Bb on beat 2.5
• m32 & m40: There's a Bb at the end of the upper LH layer, at beat 4.5. Do you want to include it as well? It doesn't have to be in its original octave
• m36: If you want, there's a Db in the lower layer of the RH you could add on beat 3

[SlimyWyvern]

I'm happy accepting even if you'd prefer not to add it, but I do think adding the harmony helps it stand out a little from m20-23. Your call

Oh if it was just those couple of notes then I'd be happy to add them, I think it sounds lovely and does make it stand out more.

I meant that I hear an Ab in the LH chord at beat 2, above the Eb. On closer inspection you might not want to add it in though, with the RH playing the same Ab half a beat prior.

Ah, I see now. I'll keep it as is.

Seems you removed the Eb instead, I'm still hearing this chord as Eb-G

My bad, fixed that.

I think there's an Ab being played at beat 2.25, but the rest looks great!

Yeah, I hear it too so I added it.

m32 & m40: There's a Bb at the end of the upper LH layer, at beat 4.5. Do you want to include it as well? It doesn't have to be in its original octave

I think it's fine to include the Bb in both measures, but do you think the way I moved up some of the LH notes on the staff still look okay?

I don't know, something about the angle of the beams seems a bit off to me. And yes, I know I could adjust them but I'm not sure what would make it look better. I took all your other suggestions so hope it's all good for now.

[XiaoMigros]

I think it's fine to include the Bb in both measures, but do you think the way I moved up some of the LH notes on the staff still look okay?

To me it looks fine (cross-staff beams are always a bit special), but if you want you're free to adjust the angle of the beams. Here's some variants I came up with:

More slanted beams

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Horizontal Beams

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For the second picture I reduced the distance between staves to make the vertical stretch less noticeable.

I would also recommend moving the low Eb at beat 4 of m32 up an octave, to keep things playable, but you're welcome to work out another solution if you prefer.

The rest of the changes look great! Ready to accept once you get back to me on these few points