[DELETED] [N64] Star Fox 64 - "Area 6" by Fernman

[Fernman]

I don't understand what you mean, I'm saying those Ds should be removed because I don't think they're present in the original

Now I understand what you are saying, I added the D's to make the entrance sound fuller and consistent with the rest of the song. Listening to it without the D's gives it an emptier feeling when the rest of the song has harmonics. The alternative is to use the Bb octaves, but I would rather not.

Replacing what you have written with a 1-note bassline is definitely more easy to play

Normally I would agree, but when both hands move in a similar way it makes it easier to play. Nonetheless, adding the timpani part I still feel is inconsistent with the rest of the song and especially with the grandness of the chord progression. And certainly not something one would remember hearing in the OST.

Notepad (and Finale in general) use a select change-> apply to score system (rather than musescore's select on score -> apply changes system). First you have to choose the tie tool (and make sure none of the note options are selected) and then click on the note you want to tie from. Hope that helps

Maybe because the Bb is in a second voice that I can't create the tie? The selection tool isn't working. and I'm not seeing anything under the Simple Edit menu. or the "select change" you mentioned.

Also I noticed in m2 Fantastic Ike pointed out making the 3rd note from the end have its own flag apart from beat 4. I fixed that in musescore, but it didn't translate over to Notepad. And that I don't know how to fix.

Thanks for the feedback!

[XiaoMigros]

Maybe because the Bb is in a second voice that I can't create the tie? The selection tool isn't working. and I'm not seeing anything under the Simple Edit menu. or the "select change" you mentioned.

You don't need to use the select tool, you can just use the tie tool like I said in my previous post

Also I noticed in m2 Fantastic Ike pointed out making the 3rd note from the end have its own flag apart from beat 4. I fixed that in musescore, but it didn't translate over to Notepad. And that I don't know how to fix.

I'm not sure if that's possible in Notepad, but it's optional either way so leaving it as is works too

[Fernman]

You don't need to use the select tool, you can just use the tie tool like I said in my previous post

I tried using the tie tool and while I can tie other notes I can't tie that particular note. Maybe because it is in a second voice? I keep getting that "error" sound.  I can tie other notes across measures. .
I think it is because it is in the second voice because I can't even use the eraser on it.

[XiaoMigros]

I tried using the tie tool and while I can tie other notes I can't tie that particular note.

Ah, I was looking at the missing tie in m16. This one's not working for me either, let's just make note of that for later..

[Fernman]

I updated the score after listening to the soundtrack again I finally noticed the significance of the timpani. I incorporated that into beat 4 of many of the measures and in some cases in beat 3 on the second page. I may have changed the octave of the timpani notes to be more in line with the surrounding notes so it is easier to play and still sounds pleasant.
I also changed the key to D major per your advice.
Other formatting and dynamic marking were included based on feedback I received from my other submission.
The composer was updated based on https://vgmdb.net/album/133 which lists Hajime Wakai as the composer of this song.

[XiaoMigros]

Great! Glad we are on a more similar page now

Before I delve further into specifics, let's again talk about some broader points:

• I would really recommend writing the timpani/bass part in m16-17 instead of what you have there at the moment.  It would make this section easier to play whilst also more accurately representing what can be heard in the original. Speaking of playability you could remove the bottom note in the RH Eb chord if you want
  
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• While i would prefer you use octaves in the LH of m22-29, you should at least make sure that the chords you use are derived from the track itself. I think using the bass note + fifth would work; that would mean A & E up to m25, and Bb and F from m26-m29
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• Thanks for changing the key to D major! I think it fits better. It's a good idea to then end the sheet on a D major chord (or something similar). Here's something short I came up with, but feel free to do something else if you prefer (just preferably not too long):
  
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Let me know your thoughts! I tried my best to find a middle ground. If you're happy with these changes I can get the submission files updated for you so you don't have to do all this in Notepad

[Fernman]

• I would really recommend writing the timpani/bass part in m16-17 instead of what you have there at the moment.  It would make this section easier to play whilst also more accurately representing what can be heard in the original. Speaking of playability you could remove the bottom note in the RH Eb chord if you want
  
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I reviewed the image you provided and that isn't what I understood the timpani part to be on the LH, nor in the score you provided me, but it doesn't seem to be that much of an audible musical difference. However, the left hand will be a single note and given that all the prior LH notes are pairs, for this chord heavy measure to be a single note sounds out of place. I added a harmonic note that exists in the other instrument chord in the score you provided in as a D4, etc. I brought it down an octave to make the LH sound fuller.

• While i would prefer you use octaves in the LH of m22-29, you should at least make sure that the chords you use are derived from the track itself. I think using the bass note + fifth would work; that would mean A & E up to m25, and Bb and F from m26-m29
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I see what you mean. I changed all except m24 which I needed beat 4 to lower to a D to give contrast to the first beat of m25. The D is borrowed from the RH; The suggested m25 sounds unpleasant and out of place within the context of the surrounding measures. This measure pair needs contrast to break up the predictable LH repeated notes when the RH isn't doing much and give the song more of a punch.; m28 as I am borrowing the Cn is present in the RH. The Cn also gives enough contrast to make the next pair of notes have more of a pulse or punch to them as if you are breaking through the space armada.
EDIT: I played m22-24 with the E instead of the D. The E clashes unpleasantly with the RH F. Additionally, it gives an uneasy feeling while one is playing it. I reverted the music back to the D. The D gives it more of a grounded tone. I realize that note it is not present in the score as is, but when a song is adapted to piano there needs to be adjustments to make it not only playable but sounding pleasant. I have heard Star Fox symphonies that do have the A octaves and it sounds great with those instruments, but not with the piano. It brings the feeling down and somewhat sad. I hope we are prioritizing the feel of the music as much as the accuracy of the notation.

• Thanks for changing the key to D major! I think it fits better. It's a good idea to then end the sheet on a D major chord (or something similar). Here's something short I came up with, but feel free to do something else if you prefer (just preferably not too long):
  
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I give thanks and respect your suggested ending, however I find it quite abrupt and it ends on a high note which is odd in a battle where you want to end on a lower note to give you that feeling of "breath...ahh..... it's over"
I will stick with my original ending. The way I see it is that once it restarts in m46 it begins to sound like its coming to an end in m49 and then the same chords found in m18 are inverted downward to make it feel you did it, You broke through the space armada. And - at least how I see it in my minds eye. After breaking through the space armada The camera would focus in in front of Fox's Arwing coming into view from the front and you see his cockpit as he salutes or head nods you and then as Fox and company blast off to Venom the LH notes play as they fly away towards planet Venom.
I am aware Dm songs typically ending in on D, however to bring down the song "gently" (for lack of a better word) and using only the melody inherent in the song this is the ending i come up with that i see as very "fitting" and in spirit with the song. Also, one could say that the introduction begins in the key of Bmaj before switching to Dmaj, and then leads to an ending in Bb maj. So in a way the song begins with Bb and ends in Bb.

EDIT: I went through the score you sent me measure by measure and found there are far more chords which are consistent with Bb Major and F Major (among others) than there are chords where it is consistent with D major. Based on this analysis I am returning the song to the key of Bb major. The introduction may lead to a D major, but it starts in Bb major in the first two measures. This isn't simply an intro that leads to D major as the this same pattern of notes is present elsewhere in the song. Based on my measure by measure analysis I conclude this song is in Bb Major.

Thanks for your feedback. I have updated the files accordingly.[/list]

[Kricketune54]

I know it's been quite a bit of time since there has last been input on this sheet, frankly I've been a little unsure on where to start given how much was posted about this sheet.

There's still a lot of work that will need to be done to move this along, the same feedback that Latios mentioned on the "All Clear" sheet regarding a lack of bass at parts (first measure, as well as m18-21) applies. In m1's case, I think you could move that current LH part up as a second lower layer of the RH, but overall, the goal is to maintain a bit of depth and texture throughout. Maybe from m18-21 you could add some pedal marks or con pedale with the goal of sustaining the higher notes RH, move the current LH up as a lower RH layer, and then add a consistent lower bassline part like the original.

Please also see the newer formatting guidelines posted within the last month or so, happy to help with stuff that can't quite be fixed between MuseScore going to NotePad.

But again, sorry there was a bit of a wait here. Let me know if you have any questions on the above

[Fernman]

There's still a lot of work that will need to be done to move this along, the same feedback that Latios mentioned on the "All Clear" sheet regarding a lack of bass at parts (first measure, as well as m18-21) applies. In m1's case, I think you could move that current LH part up as a second lower layer of the RH, but overall, the goal is to maintain a bit of depth and texture throughout. Maybe from m18-21 you could add some pedal marks or con pedale with the goal of sustaining the higher notes RH, move the current LH up as a lower RH layer, and then add a consistent lower bassline part like the original.

I'-m good with adding the bassline to m1 as it sets up a good crecendo in m3.
M18-21 I disagree with adding a lower part. A) When listening to the original there are only three unique voice sets present, the voices currently in the music, and some timpani in the background. The focus is audibly the two current voices in the sheet music, where the intent is to build tension through the climbing notes and the higher note block chords.  B) The timpani part is a notably different texture than what is needed to build tension.  In game the timpani keeps the song moving, but on the piano the crescendo-ing notes would be enough to keep variety in the song. If the timpani part was included and the sustain pedal was used to hold the higher notes the shortness of the timpani would be lost. C) Because this is a building tension segment the higher block chords need to be sustained for longer than 1 beat and preferably at least 4 beats. Using the sustain pedal I think would muddy the climbing notes as well.
So in short: The song is building tension and it is a variation to the rest of the song to keep it interesting is the way I interpret the composition. I prefer to leave it as is.

This is different from "All Clear" in that in "All Clear" once it hit the high note the focus quickly shifted to the next phrase and you can effectively forget the high note. In "Area 6" the high notes are there to build tension and must be held for a duration to feel that suspense. This is my interpretation anyway.

Please also see the newer formatting guidelines posted within the last month or so, happy to help with stuff that can't quite be fixed between MuseScore going to NotePad.

I made the changes I could find, though I'm not sure what exactly changed from the prior formatting guidelines. Other than margins which I can't edit let me know what other formatting I'm missing.

[Kricketune54]

I'-m good with adding the bassline to m1 as it sets up a good crecendo in m3.
M18-21 I disagree with adding a lower part.B) The timpani part is a notably different texture than what is needed to build tension.  In game the timpani keeps the song moving, but on the piano the crescendo-ing notes would be enough to keep variety in the song. If the timpani part was included and the sustain pedal was used to hold the higher notes the shortness of the timpani would be lost. C) Because this is a building tension segment the higher block chords need to be sustained for longer than 1 beat and preferably at least 4 beats. Using the sustain pedal I think would muddy the climbing notes as well.
So in short: The song is building tension and it is a variation to the rest of the song to keep it interesting is the way I interpret the composition. I prefer to leave it as is.

The lower notes for m1 LH don't fit the original's chord tone - I think En makes more sense.

As far as the above points go, for m18-21, it sounds a bit empty. That is the main reasoning why I am suggesting otherwise; I agree


m4-6 the Gb would be written as an F#, as this chord is D major. I see Xiao brought this up a lot earlier; I would say that given the amount of time that has been put into this sheet from our side... we're happy to help you get this up to the site, but we don't want to put things up that we know are wrong.

After looking at this for a while, I do think that this arrangement might be better written as A minor/keyless. The main melody tone that starts at m4 is definitely D# major, but this song starts and shifts to a minor tone for a good chunk of it. That would remove a lot of accidentals, though will need to make some edits to ensure if you do a key switch with a button press that parts with Db's or Eb's stay that way and are not C#'s or D#'s where it makes sense.

This is different from "All Clear" in that in "All Clear" once it hit the high note the focus quickly shifted to the next phrase and you can effectively forget the high note. In "Area 6" the high notes are there to build tension and must be held for a duration to feel that suspense. This is my interpretation anyway.
I made the changes I could find, though I'm not sure what exactly changed from the prior formatting guidelines. Other than margins which I can't edit let me know what other formatting I'm missing.

To clarify, the point was about the style of arranging and the feedback we have been providing, as opposed to differences between the songs.

[Fernman]

The lower notes for m1 LH don't fit the original's chord tone - I think En makes more sense.

Adjusted to an En on beat 1 and Cn in the rest of the measure.

m4-6 the Gb would be written as an F#, as this chord is D major. I see Xiao brought this up a lot earlier; I would say that given the amount of time that has been put into this sheet from our side... we're happy to help you get this up to the site, but we don't want to put things up that we know are wrong.

It has been a long time since I've seen Xiao's feedback. And I appreciate all of your team's feedback. The reason for the recent change was I received some feedback elsewhere on the accidentals in m34, m35 and others like it that it should be a Db and Gb and not a Db and F# like I had before. Then I thought about note consistency and changed all F#'s to be Db's. not remembering the earlier feedback.  No disrespect implied.

After looking at this for a while, I do think that this arrangement might be better written as A minor/keyless. The main melody tone that starts at m4 is definitely D# major, but this song starts and shifts to a minor tone for a good chunk of it. That would remove a lot of accidentals, though will need to make some edits to ensure if you do a key switch with a button press that parts with Db's or Eb's stay that way and are not C#'s or D#'s where it makes sense.

I'm not sure what a "key switch with a button press" is, but I see what you mean on being keyless, at least at the start. m2, I switched the Bb to a A# since it is an augmented D chord.
As for the entire arrangement being keyless... while I uploaded it as you suggested, you'll have to educate me on why that is. If the goal is to eliminate accidentals, the song adds a lot of flats throughout the song that are not just passing tones.
If I were to have key signature changes, m4 would be G maj (since there are Cn's) m10 would be Bb major, m26 would be Ab, m38 would Gmaj and m42 would be Bb maj.

Maybe what I had before the whole song being Bb is incorrect, though now that you've pointed this out, what are your thoughts about it having key signature changes in each section.

[Kricketune54]

Adjusted to an En on beat 1 and Cn in the rest of the measure.

Not sure I understand why you only changed beat 1? Listening to the measure, I hear An and En for the two notes that would most make sense in the LH.

It has been a long time since I've seen Xiao's feedback. And I appreciate all of your team's feedback. The reason for the recent change was I received some feedback elsewhere on the accidentals in m34, m35 and others like it that it should be a Db and Gb and not a Db and F# like I had before. Then I thought about note consistency and changed all F#'s to be Db's. not remembering the earlier feedback.  No disrespect implied.

As for the entire arrangement being keyless... while I uploaded it as you suggested, you'll have to educate me on why that is. If the goal is to eliminate accidentals, the song adds a lot of flats throughout the song that are not just passing tones.

Let's come back to this. At this point, I would like to go section by section because I think individual accidentals can be discussed in a more productive way than I was attempting.

I'm not sure what a "key switch with a button press" is, but I see what you mean on being keyless, at least at the start. m2, I switched the Bb to a A# since it is an augmented D chord.

This particular chord at m2 is actually Bbmaj, so it would be Bb not A#.

If I were to have key signature changes, m4 would be G maj (since there are Cn's)

No, in this case the chord is Dmaj, so if the key was changing at each section, it would change to Dmaj, not Gmaj. I would not focus on the Cn in this particular instance because there are not Cn's until m8, when the chord changes from Dmaj to Gmaj. Not going to go through every example here for sake of time that you've pointed out, but (see continued response for the below quote as well)

Maybe what I had before the whole song being Bb is incorrect, though now that you've pointed this out, what are your thoughts about it having key signature changes in each section.

The point of suggesting the keyless/A minor was because of this song's starting chord, and by the fact that the chord changes/progression don't quite facilitate a key with multiple flats or sharps in my opinion.

One thing I want to distinguish for you just to be clear from the previous point, chord changes do not necessitate a key change for the song. Accidentals are added in for these, this is a bit of a tricky track because the melody moves around a lot; I've seen Area 6 written entirely in Dmaj before for example, and I personally disagree with that because there are a lot of Cn's that then have to have natural accidentals added.

Linking that particular transcription in question though, I think it would help otherwise in showing you the particular chords. I think it is those varied chords that make this song particularly difficult to arrange/transcribe. https://www.vgleadsheets.com/view/star-fox-64/area-6?transposition=C#


Edit: one small thing I noticed when looking at the sheet, for m31 RH, it is not generally recommended to write dotted 8th notes with a staccato as the note length is somewhat ambigous (subdividing a dotted note is weird and not really useful to a performer reading it). Rather, write 8th note, followed by 16th rest

[Zeta]

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