[NDS] Pokémon Black Version & Pokémon White Version - "Nacrene City" (Replacement) by Latios212 & Ni

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Black Version & Pokémon White Version
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Nacrene City
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arrangers: Latios212 & Nine Lives


Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS | MIDI | PDF
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Latios212]

Finally replacing the version of this sheet that's written in straight 4/4 >_>

Note: in game, the music for Nacrene City can be heard with or without an accordion part. Some tracks from Black/White have additional instrumental layers added on top of the base track when musicians play them in the game. (Source)

The OST versions of the tracks contain all instrumental parts; however we've opted to use the base (accordion-less) version of the track for reference when arranging, as the accordion part is not essential to the theme and the base version already has enough to work with. Here's what it sounds like with the accordion.

The video below is the accordion-less version which we used.

[Zeila]

Nice job you two :3 . I'll split my feedback between both hands

Right Hand
It looks like you both intentionally made the beginning simpler so that the last section would have more of an impact, so I'll just be focusing on m51-end for the RH. There are some extra notes that I don't think would be too difficult to include, and I think they would provide a fuller sound

- m52 sounds like there's an F natural here too, and maybe you could rewrite the G# as Ab but idk
- m54 there are some A's here too
- m58 there's an A here that you could lower an octave, but it's understandable if you both want to omit it
- m60 I think it would be better to include A's instead of C's in the RH because the LH is already playing C's
- m61 sounds like there's an E here that's more prominent than the F imo, but you could include both too
- m62 instead of doubling B's you could replace the B's with G's in the RH

Left Hand
- m4 this is more of a commentary (unless this was unintentional or there's another part that actually does this), but I like that the LH was changed to sort of imitate the upwards motion of the vibraphone/mallet part. I hear the original bass part as G (high) -> F# -> D# instead of F# -> B -> D# for the last three notes
- m6 maybe you could imitate the extra voices here by adding an echo note for the low A on beat 2.33
- m10 it sounds weird but I think the C# on beat 3.5 is actually a B
- m14 I think the B is actually two eighth notes instead of a quarter note
- m22 the first three notes sound more like a quarter note triplet (with the last two notes written w/ staccato possibly) rather than quarter note on beat 1 + eighth triplet on beat 2
- m30 I think the B should be two eighth notes but I'm unsure
- m65-68 there's a string pizz. that plays every measure instead of every other measure, and I think leaving it as a tie in the piano arrangement makes it sound slightly empty there

[Libera]

Bump?

[Latios212]

Sorry, this summer has been... wild >_> I finally took the time to sit down with Nine Lives and go through the feedback. We implemented most of the suggestions above but have comments on a few:

Nice job you two :3 . I'll split my feedback between both hands

Right Hand
- m52 sounds like there's an F natural here too, and maybe you could rewrite the G# as Ab but idk

Yep, though I think the G# should stay as the major third over the bass E.

Also, we added an E to the chord in m. 55 because it was just a dyad and sounded emptier than the chords around it.

- m58 there's an A here that you could lower an octave, but it's understandable if you both want to omit it

We decided to omit it; I think the simple B major sound is more prominent here without the seventh.

- m4 this is more of a commentary (unless this was unintentional or there's another part that actually does this), but I like that the LH was changed to sort of imitate the upwards motion of the vibraphone/mallet part. I hear the original bass part as G (high) -> F# -> D# instead of F# -> B -> D# for the last three notes

I don't remember, but checking again I hear the notes as you said them, so they've been changed accordingly.

- m6 maybe you could imitate the extra voices here by adding an echo note for the low A on beat 2.33

We're leaning more towards omitting it since we haven't written in much of the implied rhythm elsewhere and I think putting that bass note there distracts from the pickup in the right hand on beat 2.66.

- m14 I think the B is actually two eighth notes instead of a quarter note
- m30 I think the B should be two eighth notes but I'm unsure

I think you're right for m. 14, but not quite hearing it for m. 30, so left that measure as is.

- m22 the first three notes sound more like a quarter note triplet (with the last two notes written w/ staccato possibly) rather than quarter note on beat 1 + eighth triplet on beat 2

I'm not too sure about this one, but Nine Lives agrees with you on the rhythm. I recommend writing it as swung eighths on beat 1 so that the third strike is displaced and I think that rhythm is a little easier to read against the right hand as such.

New files are up! Thanks for your patience.

[Radiak488417]

Always glad to see an M get replaced really nice job on this one!

-In the original, the intro is pretty busy and dense and then the A section is more subdued, so I think including some more harmony under the melody in m1-6 might help capture that contrast a bit better. Let me know if you want me to be more specific about what notes I'm talking about.

-m10 beat 2.5 is a lot spicier in the original, sounds like there's an F# on top and a Bb on the bottom that you don't have (A13b9 chord). I know you've left some notes out in this section on purpose, but this beat feels a bit empty to me without the dissonance.

-The grace note on m15 beat 1 sounds more like an 8th triplet to me, I think the distinction makes sense here since there are also shorter grace notes in the piece.

-m19/20: The RH isn't doing much here, so you could include more of the accompaniment if you wanted (I especially think the chords on beat 1-1.5 of m20 would be a nice inclusion)

-m50 beat 1-2: there's a lower voice here that goes A, Ab, G

-m64 beat 1: melody note sounds like it should be up an octave. You could include the harmony under it as well (bottom to top Bb-C#-E).

Funnily enough, the current sheet on the site appears to be a MIDI dump directly from the game's sequence data, so all the bass and melody notes are perfectly correct there (I checked against a MIDI conversion of my own).

[Latios212]

Always glad to see an M get replaced really nice job on this one!

Thank you very much and thanks for the feedback! Just went through it with Nine Lives and we took most of your suggestions.

-In the original, the intro is pretty busy and dense and then the A section is more subdued, so I think including some more harmony under the melody in m1-6 might help capture that contrast a bit better. Let me know if you want me to be more specific about what notes I'm talking about.

We also wanted this section to be a bit sparser compared to m. 51+, although they already do some different things. Some more harmony here would be good though and we've added some straightforward tones from the harmony of the original - but nothing too spicy yet.

-m10 beat 2.5 is a lot spicier in the original, sounds like there's an F# on top and a Bb on the bottom that you don't have (A13b9 chord). I know you've left some notes out in this section on purpose, but this beat feels a bit empty to me without the dissonance.

Agreed with the F# on top, but not super enthused about how it sounds with the Bb written on the bottom of the chord so we just added the F#. (Also a bit easier to play / less out of place as a big chord)

-m64 beat 1: melody note sounds like it should be up an octave. You could include the harmony under it as well (bottom to top Bb-C#-E).

I think there is an A up there, but it sounds like it's part of a chord strike and not the actual melody which we both hear as the lower A we wrote in. The harmony doesn't really fit as well with that in mind, but we did add the E (fifth) in the left hand chord.

Funnily enough, the current sheet on the site appears to be a MIDI dump directly from the game's sequence data, so all the bass and melody notes are perfectly correct there (I checked against a MIDI conversion of my own).

gah yeah only a straight midi dump could be responsible for a sheet that looks like that lol

[SlowPokemon]

Just asking, but wouldn't this sheet make more sense in 9/8? It's kind of awkward to read eighth notes against triplets in this case, since the third triplet and second eighth are going to line up, which isn't reflected by the sheet's appearance

(This is just my feeling after I lurked onto this thread and tried playing the sheet)

[Radiak488417]

Agreed with the F# on top, but not super enthused about how it sounds with the Bb written on the bottom of the chord so we just added the F#. (Also a bit easier to play / less out of place as a big chord)

Yeah it kind of comes out of nowhere in the original as well, I just think the b9 here is really important to the sound of this chord and the song in general. Up to you ultimately but I'd still vote for including it.

I think there is an A up there, but it sounds like it's part of a chord strike and not the actual melody which we both hear as the lower A we wrote in. The harmony doesn't really fit as well with that in mind, but we did add the E (fifth) in the left hand chord.

Checked the sequence data just to be sure, and the organ melody does play the note up an octave, no chord strikes are hitting it. I can hear the lower A you're taking about, but I think it's an overtone from the bass since there's no actual note there in the sequence.

[Latios212]

Just asking, but wouldn't this sheet make more sense in 9/8? It's kind of awkward to read eighth notes against triplets in this case, since the third triplet and second eighth are going to line up, which isn't reflected by the sheet's appearance

(This is just my feeling after I lurked onto this thread and tried playing the sheet)

Ah, my bad. Usually for swung pieces containing triplets I manually align the swung eighth notes with the triplets, if any, at the end since they have a habit of getting reset if anything else is edited. This piece didn't have too many and I've edited the files accordingly. For this piece, I still feel it should be in swing. For comparison, here's what it'd look like in 9/8. (Thanks, Nine Lives!) I think it looks a lot messier without much benefit. With the sheet in swing you can see exactly where the triplets are easier.

Yeah it kind of comes out of nowhere in the original as well, I just think the b9 here is really important to the sound of this chord and the song in general. Up to you ultimately but I'd still vote for including it.

Hmm I could go either way on this. I'll play with it again shortly and check with Nine Lives on what he thinks about it again.

Checked the sequence data just to be sure, and the organ melody does play the note up an octave, no chord strikes are hitting it. I can hear the lower A you're taking about, but I think it's an overtone from the bass since there's no actual note there in the sequence.

I trust you but, it just sounds off to me when comparing with the original... would like another opinion on this from someone else. Just curious what others hear in the end product as well before we change it

[Whoppybones]

I do hear m64 RH as it is currently written. Inquiry for Radiak: Is the entire organ part an octave up? It might be that technically it was written an octave up but because of the soundfont sounds more like how Lat and NineLives put it, especially because I can kinda sorta hear all of the notes m62 b3.33 to m65 as an octave up from what they've written.

On an unrelated note, I have a couple points other points of feedback for you two:
 - m7 (and 23) b2 I hear an E right under the A
 - m10 b3.5 I hear another chord (shift from the previous one, not a restrike)

[Latios212]

- m7 (and 23) b2 I hear an E right under the A

Ah good catch I think you're right! Added those in

- m10 b3.5 I hear another chord (shift from the previous one, not a restrike)

Yep it's there, but it resolves to another chord at the beginning of the next measure when the melody plays. I'd prefer to omit this motion in the arrangement for ease of playing but also to not distract from or making it sound like the chord leads into the melody line.

Also, Nine Lives and I chatted about the chord in m. 10 beat 2.5 and are cool with adding in the Bb on beat 2.5, so that's been added in.


So I think the couple of things that are yet to be resolved are:
- The octave of m. 64 RH as written (Nine Lives and I in addition to Whoppy still hear it like that)
- I forgot to mention this earlier, but the spelling of m. 60/62. I like how m. 60 looks with Fn but maybe it should be E# because that's a major third above the bass? But also you have the minor third on the top of the chord like in m. 62...

[Whoppybones]

I'd prefer changing m62's D# into an Eb over changing m60's Fn into an E#. Idk what those chords are supposed to be but it would make the RH have consistent intervals and (imo) look more like a normal chord than the other way round.

[Radiak488417]

Inquiry for Radiak: Is the entire organ part an octave up? It might be that technically it was written an octave up but because of the soundfont sounds more like how Lat and NineLives put it, especially because I can kinda sorta hear all of the notes m62 b3.33 to m65 as an octave up from what they've written.

The sheet has the melody in the correct octave as far as I can tell, it's just that one note that's up an octave. Here's a link to the midi conversion, the note is in m42: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r6FsBBmBFT9js0JEkWreYPSUxgEtZdJe/view?usp=sharing (yes i know it's in 4/4 that's how the composer input it don't blame me)

Also, I noticed that the video linked in this thread sounds like it was recorded with a limiter, so the volume levels are a bit distorted compared to the original track. I think the note is a little clearer in this other upload and in the accordion version (timestamp 1:28 for both).

[Whoppybones]

Radial, I listened to both of the YT links you provided (phone said the drive file had an issue tho). I can now hear why you think there's an upper A, and maybe there is, but I feel like it flows a lot better with the A where it's at. The downward motion feels so natural to me and I feel like adding in another A, while maybe accurate, would make it feel different. As an implementation note it could be included with parentheses or a small note head to mark it as optional if your feelings on this remain the same, Latios and Nine Lives.