[GCN] Pokémon Colosseum - "Agate Village" by Kricketune54

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Colosseum
Console: Nintendo GameCube
Title: Agate Village
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Kricketune54

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[Kricketune54]

Will tentatively claim Trainer School and Agate Village.

Hope it's okay I did this one, Latios of 7 years ago lol

Incorporated the piano part a bit, but I didn't want to have it muddy up the main melody for its first two bars (m4-5)

[Bloop]

-gets straw hat- alright let's check this

I remember you mentioning something about doubting between 6/8 and swung 4/4 for this on the discord, but I think I'd opt for 6/8. I feel the L.H. pattern being quarter-8th-quarter-8th is way less complicated than seeing all those triplet figures, and figuring out how they relate to the L.H. pattern (like beat 3-4). If you still prefer it in 4/4, it's probably best to move the L.H. offbeat 8ths a bit to the left when there's a triplet in the R.H., so that the L.H. lines up with the third 8th note of the R.H. (or the fifth 16th, if it's a 16th note run)
Anyway, up to the more detailed stuff:
-Pickup measure: I hear the bass slide start on G, but I'm personally don't think a glissando works that well in a piano context: it's way more overwhelming than a cute bass slide. Maybe having a pick up like this sounds a bit better? Also, the pickup measure shouldn't count towards the total measure number count. You can exclude it from the measure count in the measure tool (double click the measure, and uncheck "Include in measure numbering" under Behavior). I'd leave this for last though, because all my other comments will be from the original measure count :p
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-m5: don't forget to slur your grace notes if you like your grace notes slurred ^^ (in the rest of the piece too)
-m6: The rhythm in beat 4 is a bit laid back, so technically it's not exactly a triplet and more like straight 16ths, but I think leaving it as a triplet is fine too (because that's probably what the player was thinking about)
-m7: Maybe for playability it's better to leave out the bottom notes in this triplet 16th run in beat 4? It's quite fast and will probably have the same effect without the bottom notes.
-m9: I hear a D and A under the 2nd and 3rd 8th notes in the triplet on beat 2.
-m11: I hear B and D as bottom notes in beats 3 and 4 in the R.H. (instead of D and G)
-m14: I hear the C and B as top notes in the strings, maybe you could leave out the higher E and D so the C and B stay on top? (it also makes the C-E dyad in the triplet in beat 1 a bit easier to play)
-m15: The 8th rests in the R.H. should be on tick lower (the circles of the 8th rests should always go in stave spaces, not on stave lines)
-m16: This measure is a bit finnicky with which notes the player has to hold (or is able to hold). Maybe it's best to delete the dotted half note D hidden behind the 8th, incorporate the 16th triplet run in the top layer and put it up an octave so it's a bit easier to go over to the next bar?
-m22 and 24: I hear a D in the 8th rest in beat 3 (an octave above the L.H. D)
-m27-28: These bars are exactly the same as m2 and 3 (the two after the pickup), maybe you could delete these two and have it repeat back to m2? Also, just a personal suggestion, I usually like to use D.S. and a segno instead of repeat bars for full song repeats, my reasoning being that the segno is easier to find while skimming over the measures, than it is to find a repeat barline inside the measures. If you prefer the repeat barline though, that's completely fine too ^^

[Kricketune54]

Much revision later...


I don't know if I asked on Discord I tried finding my message but couldn't seem to find anything.  It was on my PA thread post, but regardless it's now in 6/8

I've added the slurs, the D.S sign. as well as the pickup properly.  Not entirely sure why I thought it was good to include the last couple bars that were supposed to be the start of the song loop

Everything else not mentioned in this post should be updated, thanks!

[Bloop]

Oh yeah it was on your personal arrangement thread, I always assume discord to be the place when I vaguely remember something :p Looks a lot better now! There's a few tiny things left, but you can consider it approved pending those ^^

-m1: The segno sign should be centered over the barline. Also, usually I make the barline under the segno sign a double barline, though it may be a bit much to have one directly after the pick up, so leaving it as is is fine too ^^
-m15: The B in the R.H. on beat 6 should be an A.
-m19: The dot of the dotted quarter rest is on a stave line, so the rest should be moved up one tick. It's a good rule of thumb to always move rests an even number of ticks in any direction, so the rests always line up with the stave lines the same way.

[Kricketune54]

-m1: The segno sign should be centered over the barline. Also, usually I make the barline under the segno sign a double barline, though it may be a bit much to have one directly after the pick up, so leaving it as is is fine too ^^
-m15: The B in the R.H. on beat 6 should be an A.

I actually did your feedback but misheard this on my own listening.  Fixed that plus the segno

-m19: The dot of the dotted quarter rest is on a stave line, so the rest should be moved up one tick. It's a good rule of thumb to always move rests an even number of ticks in any direction, so the rests always line up with the stave lines the same way.

got this thanks, small oversight on my part.

Couple small changes I have made in addition: I hear a D under the RH G in m19 so I added that. I also changed the dotted quarter G in the RH top layer in m28 to just a quarter so there's no awkwardness of holding a dotted and then restriking on 1.66 anyway

[Bloop]

Awesome, those extra changes look good too! I'll approve ^^

[Latios212]

Hope it's okay I did this one, Latios of 7 years ago lol

lol that's fine, latios forgot

Having seen this in both swing and 6/8, I do agree 6/8 is definitely nicer to read! Before I get into checking the details, I have a couple of broader comments:

I feel like the distinction between the main melody and countermelody is lost at times, both visually and audibly.
- Visually in m. 12-16 you have almost everything in one layer, making it tricky to tell what's the "call" vs. the "response". One way I sometimes work with sections like this is to use phrase markings around the countermelody to denote where it starts and ends. You could try doing that for the countermelody in m. 13-14 and 15-16 if you want. Other ideas are also welcome.
- Audibly in m. 25-28 you have some non-melodic voices above the melody that distract from the main melody. Particularly in m. 27-28 it sounds like there's no motion in the right hand as the second layer moves up to hit the melody note struck by the first. I'd suggest rethinking if you think those voices are important to keep as they are, or if you can invert downwards or something to keep the harmony notes but without distracting from the melody.

Also, a couple of quick visual things:
- Adjust the measure distribution - i.e. the last system on page 1 has 7 measures and the last one on page 2 has 4, so there's room to balance things out a bit.
- The first rest and grace note in m. 13 are super close to the chord.

[Kricketune54]

One of the struggles I certainly had with this one was figuring out places where less was more, which seems to be evident.  I have removed most of the harmonies save for m29-30 though perhaps that doesn't need to be that way either

Files updated, though some feedback was addressed through deletion rather than fixes

Edit 3/17 had a bit of an epiphany and added some of the additional voices that were originally above the melody in m23-27, but put them below the melody parts this time

[Kricketune54]

Despite my previous edit, I still wasn't satisfied with the arrangement after taking some of Latios's suggestions and am updating this arrangement with a bit of a rework, one that I actually had thought of but not tried when I first was arranging this.  From m22-m30 I removed all of the countermelodies, and pitched up the melody (harmonica) an octave above the original.  There are some string counter melody chords that I kept in at m23, 27, and 28 and as stated in my 3/17 edit, they are below the melody notes.

The intention of this is to capture that elevated feeling that m19-21 brings (which I did not change from what was already there), but to also make it feel like m31-33 is earned, which I did not feel was the case after some of the feedback received for m22-30.

In addition, I removed all countermelody piano part sprinklings from m41-46.  Hope this rework isn't straying too far from the original for NSM's tastes but I think I'm struggling to find a good balance with this one

[Latios212]

Hope this rework isn't straying too far from the original for NSM's tastes but I think I'm struggling to find a good balance with this one

On the contrary, I think this is definitely a change for the better. The melodic voices are much more prominent now when comparing with the original

My main two remaining concerns are:
- The chord in the second half of m. 7 and 25 seems a bit out of place in the arrangement as is. I would personally suggest omitting them to hold the previous melody note instead.
- The right hand feels pretty high in the second repetition of the melody (m. 22-39, especially m. 27-29). Thoughts about keeping it the same octave as before, with the added harmonies being the differentiating factor from the first iteration?

Aside from that:
- I think the bass in the second half of m. 8/26 should be G-E-D
- Fix the grace note slur in m. 25 so it bends upwards (to the note on top of the chord).
- Regardless of what octave you end up putting the melody in, make sure D is on top of m. 35 beat 1.

[Kricketune54]

On the contrary, I think this is definitely a change for the better. The melodic voices are much more prominent now when comparing with the original

Thanks!

My main two remaining concerns are:
- The chord in the second half of m. 7 and 25 seems a bit out of place in the arrangement as is. I would personally suggest omitting them to hold the previous melody note instead.

Took out the chord

- The right hand feels pretty high in the second repetition of the melody (m. 22-39, especially m. 27-29). Thoughts about keeping it the same octave as before, with the added harmonies being the differentiating factor from the first iteration?

Welp, I guess I'm not going going to have quite the swelling part I thought it would be, but pitched down it seems to work well, so I have done so with this section

- I think the bass in the second half of m. 8/26 should be G-E-D

Ah good catch pretty sure I heard this once and forgot to ever put it in.  Updated

- Fix the grace note slur in m. 25 so it bends upwards (to the note on top of the chord).

Fixed

- Regardless of what octave you end up putting the melody in, make sure D is on top of m. 35 beat 1.

Fixed this.  Thanks!

[Latios212]

Cool!

Took out the chord

Ah, to clarify... I meant removing the note on beat 4 entirely to hold the beat 3 note instead. The beat 4 note feels like an interjection from another voice, but lemme know if you disagree.

Other than that, the last couple of things before we wrap up...
- Make sure you reset the direction of the flipped RH parts in m. 25-27 (stem direction tool, un-select boxes)
- It seems odd to not have the lower D octave in m. 35 beat 1, so I could suggest substituting one of the chord tones for that.

[Kricketune54]

Ah, sorry I misunderstood. The E is now back, and I deleted the beat 1 notes that were tied over to these respective pitches.

Other things also have been fixed, thanks!

[Latios212]

Spoke briefly on Discord and decided to keep the beat 3 notes tied to the rest of the measure, but also add the G on top.

Will accept now