[NDS] Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - "Cursed Clock Tower" (Replacement) by Atcero

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Castlevania
Game: Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Cursed Clock Tower
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Atcero


Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS | MIDI | PDF
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Atcero]

Resubbing since I have time for a short while. Also the name is incorrect, rechecked with official OST lists and it is "Cursed Clock Tower". Should be fully updated from the last time
ORIGINAL POST

[Latios212]

Resubbing since I have time for a short while. Also the name is incorrect, rechecked with official OST lists and it is "Cursed Clock Tower".

Got that title updated~

[Latios212]

Sorry for the wait! This looks pretty solid overall, I just have a bunch of smaller details to go over, no big things to change Assuming this is the right video since the original one you posted has gone poof:

Left hand
Overall looks good - I wasn't initially convinced about the alternating octaves in m. 5 and similar (I usually prefer the low bass note on the downbeat of 1) but I think it works well and transitions nicely to other parts.
- Everywhere you have the rhythm of m. 1 (also the measures like m. 5), the original has a 16th rest on beat 3 instead of a tied note - you can hear the bass lift. I would consider changing it accordingly.
- The bass in the second half of m. 46 goes down to F instead of staying at Ab
- Courtesy naturals would be good on the first two C's in the left hand of m. 61

Right hand
- The notes in m. 1 and 3 should be triads. The harmony's all B minor here, so ascending m. 1 should be F#/B/D, B/D/F#, and m. 3 should be B/D/E#, B/D/F#.
- If you don't intend to use pedal to hold over the chords into m. 2/4 (and even if you do actually) I would suggest writing m. 2 and 4 as octaves to make the sound a bit more forceful.
- You have just a single harmony note on beat 1 of m. 5/7/9/etc. but I think m. 17 would really benefit from an added D# from the harmony on beat 1 to indicate the B major chord, as that isn't implied otherwise.
- m. 23 beats 3-3.5 should be lower - E-D instead of F#-E
- m. 27 could also have a B in the chord on beat 1
- m. 36-37 actually look like this:
You cannot view this attachment.
I agree with keeping out the lower notes on the first three notes but I would recommend adding in the G's above the low D's you have written in.
- I don't really hear the lower harmonies on the 16th notes in m. 46; I would suggest getting rid of them since they're hard to play at that speed too.
- I think the lower note on beat 1 of m. 47 should be Eb
- Rhythm grouping in m. 52 (should look like m. 50)
- m. 57 doesn't make sense as it's written. The 16th note descent should also be an octave lower I think
- Lower note on beat 1 of m. 64 should be A
- The lower harmony note moves from a G up to an A between m. 65-66
- m. 67 beat 1 isn't playable by the right hand alone, would recommend inverting up to keep it within reach of the top D. Also, this is a diminished chord so the A should be an Ab.
- Similar to the second comment m. 68 beat 1 might be nice as an octave
- Note sure if it's just me but the RH in the last few measures (67 and beyond) looks pretty different from what I hear. Give it a double check to see if you missed anything before I finish up by showing you what I hear

Other
- I'd suggest tweaking the system distribution a bit, m. 32-35 have two measures per system and m. 36-39 is kind of cramped compared to those right above. You also have a random 5-measure system at m. 62. Lemme know if you want any suggestions
- Page 1 is good but you should space the systems out a bit more or lower them on subsequent pages, as you have extra whitespace at the bottom.
- Double barline at key change at m. 59
- You shouldn't have both a repeat bar and D.S. at the end. You can just remove the repeat bar since you have the segno at m. 5. (Also you could raise the D.S. marking a bit)

[Atcero]

Thanks so much! Got it all updated minus this:

m. 57 doesn't make sense as it's written. The 16th note descent should also be an octave lower I think

I didnt fully re-write it but i moved the descent an octave lower and added rests to indicate where the second layer comes in. I hope thats what you mean :intensifies:

Also this:

Note sure if it's just me but the RH in the last few measures (67 and beyond) looks pretty different from what I hear. Give it a double check to see if you missed anything before I finish up by showing you what I hear

Ive relistened to it a few times and this is what Ive heard each time but its hard for me to pick out the intertwining strings in this part sadly.

Also added the link to the original posting of it with all of Libera's updates!

[Latios212]

Great, thanks for updating everything so fast! All of the points above look good now, except for the following:

- The notes in m. 1 and 3 should be triads. The harmony's all B minor here, so ascending m. 1 should be F#/B/D, B/D/F#, and m. 3 should be B/D/E#, B/D/F#.

Second chord in m. 1 is missing the B on bottom

- You have just a single harmony note on beat 1 of m. 5/7/9/etc. but I think m. 17 would really benefit from an added D# from the harmony on beat 1 to indicate the B major chord, as that isn't implied otherwise.

The D's there but is missing the sharp

- Lower note on beat 1 of m. 64 should be A

Notes are good but the dyad is pushed to the left for some reason. Special Tools > Note Position Tool > right click and Remove Manual Adjustments (or just re-enter the notes)
Actually noticed this with 27 as well, how does that even happen o.o

- The lower harmony note moves from a G up to an A between m. 65-66

Make sure to flip the lower tie upwards away from the moving voice

- m. 57 doesn't make sense as it's written. The 16th note descent should also be an octave lower I think

Cool, yeah looks better. A couple more things about this - the lower tie from 57-58 should be flipped down. These chords are also missing some harmonies. I'd suggest adding in third underneath the top note (C# in the E octave, and A in the C# octave).

- m. 67 beat 1 isn't playable by the right hand alone, would recommend inverting up to keep it within reach of the top D. Also, this is a diminished chord so the A should be an Ab.
...
- Note sure if it's just me but the RH in the last few measures (67 and beyond) looks pretty different from what I hear. Give it a double check to see if you missed anything before I finish up by showing you what I hear

Ive relistened to it a few times and this is what Ive heard each time but its hard for me to pick out the intertwining strings in this part sadly.

Here's what I'm getting (also forgot to mention breaking up the half rests in 68/70 last time) -
You cannot view this attachment.
Things to note:
- m. 67-72 has a constant D diminished 7th chord harmony (D F Ab Bn/Cb). The chords I wrote in are just different inversions of that. In particular, the lower layer first chord in m. 67 was inverted up once to stay in range of the upper D.
- The 16th note lines from 68-69 and 70-71 end up on a note that's the same as the second chord in the measure, so using a different layer/stemming it separately would be good to show that.
- The harmony sustains from the previous measure even when the octave hits, so you may want to consider notating pedal for 67-68, 69-10, and 71-72 if you want.
- The last two measures are F#sus4 > F#maj chords.

- I'd suggest tweaking the system distribution a bit, m. 32-35 have two measures per system and m. 36-39 is kind of cramped compared to those right above. You also have a random 5-measure system at m. 62. Lemme know if you want any suggestions

Much better! For the last page I would recommend 3-4-4-4-4 (instead of 4-4-4-4-3) since the first system is a bit more cramped than the last.

[Atcero]

Thank you! I believe I got it all fixed. Some notes though for m69 and m71: With what you have written, it looses that upward movement that is present in the strings in that part. I inverted the second chord on each to try and keep that present, but if it doesnt work just let me know so we can discuss it cause I would like to keep that feeling if possible.

[Latios212]

Thank you! I believe I got it all fixed.

Neato, looking better! A few things that were missed from above:

For m. 64:

Notes are good but the dyad is pushed to the left for some reason. Special Tools > Note Position Tool > right click and Remove Manual Adjustments (or just re-enter the notes)
Actually noticed this with 27 as well, how does that even happen o.o

Here's what I'm getting (also forgot to mention breaking up the half rests in 68/70 last time) -
You cannot view this attachment.
...
- The last two measures are F#sus4 > F#maj chords.

Cool, yeah looks better. A couple more things about this - the lower tie from 57-58 should be flipped down. These chords are also missing some harmonies. I'd suggest adding in third underneath the top note (C# in the E octave, and A in the C# octave).

Don't forget to tie the A!
Now, about the bottom tie - it looks like you've dragged the center point down to have the tie bend downwards. This isn't the way to flip ties - note how the starting and ending points of the tie are ABOVE the notehead. Go to Special Tools > Tie Tool, right click the tie, and click Remove All Manual Adjustments. Then to flip the tie automatically, either right click > Edit and set the tie direction to Under, or highlight the notehead using the Simple Entry tool and press Ctrl+F (Windows).
So all in all, the chord should look like this:
You cannot view this attachment.

And about the last section...

Some notes though for m69 and m71: With what you have written, it looses that upward movement that is present in the strings in that part. I inverted the second chord on each to try and keep that present, but if it doesnt work just let me know so we can discuss it cause I would like to keep that feeling if possible.

Works for me, I can see why you like it like that. I'll leave it for the person checking next to share their opinion too. Make sure you flip the second chord in m. 71 down though.

[Atcero]

I missed a lot holy snickerdoodles. Sorry about that! Should hopefully have it all up to date now and shouldnt be missing anything. Thanks so much and sorry again :cri:

[Latios212]

Haha no worries I'll leave my approval now!

[Libera]

This is looking better than when I last saw it, cool.  There are still a few things from my original post last time that haven't really been addressed (or maybe I wasn't clear enough) and I also have some more comments based on how it looks now.  I'll those first.

-I think for simplicity/playability I would suggest leaving out the low Dns in bars 36-37 as that would make the fingering a lot easier (especially coming from 35).
-Missing a G on beat 3 of bar 51 (in the second layer).  This was in my previous post as well I believe.
-There's some sort of accidental error/confusion going on with the chord on beat 3 of bar 57.  The Ab needs to be an An and also the C# is currently a Cn on playback.
-I'm not really sure I see the purpose for the second layer in bars 69/71.  I think it'd look neater without it, and also for consistency for how you've presented the melody in the rest of the sheet (where you've just put the chords and it in the same layer for simplicity, which I agree with).
-I think the little sixteenth notes going into bars 69/71 would be a nice place for slurs (i.e. slurring them onto the notes in 69/71).
-I think the rising G->A would look a lot clearer in a second layer in bars 65-66.

The main thing from last time that I still want to talk about is this:

-So I think that overall there are some issues with choices for harmony and use of octaves.  I initially pointed this out each time I noticed in the RH section below, but eventually there was too much stuff to point out and I don't think it would really be all that helpful for me to be that specific about it, so I stopped at the key change to C minor (bar 44).  From here on there are lots of places where the harmony is applied inconsistently or not at all (i.e. octave doubling in bars 45-48).  I'd recommend having another listen to the harmony and try to pick notes that fill out the chords better.  It's not really about adding more notes in, but picking the right notes to establish the chords properly.  The arrangement will sound a lot fuller and more consistent if you make the chords clearer to the listener.  I can give more guidance if needed but I think it'd be good practice for you to have an attempt at it first.

The first two pages now look a lot better, the problems are still there from bar 44-56.  Let's go through that section in detail now:

-In bar 44 the Eb would be better than the C to outline the Cm chord.
-In bar 45 the D would be better than the Bb to outline the Gm chord.
-In bar 46 the C would be better than the Ab to outline the Ab chord.
-In bar 50 just octaves are used rather than anything from the harmony (D7).
-In bar 52 anything to held outline the G#dim7 chord would be better than the G# (written currently as an Ab, a mistake left in from last time).
-Bars 53-56 then have the following chord progression: Am -> Em -> F -> Cmaj7 -> Bb (held for all of bars 55-56).  At the moment, the second layer just plays octaves of the first layer rather than following these chords.  It is also a bit inconsistent how the left hand goes from three notes in 53 to octaves in 54-56.  I think it would probably be better with the left hand in octaves the whole time and with more of the harmony put in the right hand.

Here's a picture of how something which was trying to fix all of the above might look. (IMPORTANT: I missed out the Dn on beat 1 of bar 45 in my picture accidentally, but now I've reverted all of the changes and don't want to go and edit it all again, apologies.)  Ignore the weird spacing between the last two systems.  I also got rid of the 8vas in this section (which was one of my suggestions from last time) so that you can see how that would look.  I think it's pretty readable and helps to preserve the contours of some of the phrases which are currently broken up by the use of 8vas.

Spoiler

You cannot view this attachment.

[close]

I should say that this picture is in no way definitive, but just an example of what it might look like.  I kept in the extra notes since I thought maybe it'd be cool if this section sounded a little beefier compared to the previous one, but you could also stick with two notes and follow the same kind of idea for the opening section.

Let me now just quote in the misc. section from my previous post, because that seems to be where most of the things that were missed are.

-There are no dynamics anywhere other than the start.  I feel like there a few places you could use them, like in bars 56-58, but maybe you can think of others.
-The bars get very squished on page 3.  It's probably worth decreasing the bars per system in 52+ to give a little more room to breathe. This has been fixed I think.
-Given that you didn't use an 8va in in bar 56, I don't think either of the places you used an 8va on page 3 are really necessary and it makes reading some of the phrases a little tricky, so I'd suggest removing them. Mentioned above.
-The second layer rests in bars 49/51 can be at the usual position.  Same for bar 62.
-You may want to rewrite the half rests in bars 68/70 as two quarter rests. This has been fixed just now.
-Since I'm here I might as well say that the D.S. might looker neater a little higher up.
-I'd recommend a double barline just before the segno in bar 5.

Let me talk a little about that first point since it seems like you had a go at addressing it.  The result however doesn't really make that much sense, with the sudden drop to piano in the middle of bar 57.  I think more what I was envisioning for that section was a dim through 56 (maybe to mp) and then another crescendo through bar 58.  I guess you didn't think up any others since nothing else was changed.


I hope that helps and let me know if you need any clarification on anything.

[Atcero]

Thanks so much! I got it all updated minus these two points:

-I think for simplicity/playability I would suggest leaving out the low Dns in bars 36-37 as that would make the fingering a lot easier (especially coming from 35).

I tested it out myself and it did not seem that unreasonable for me to be able to play if I am going to be honest. That being said, I am also used to having my fingers go underneath my palm a bit so it might be harder for others. For now, I have left it in.

I think more what I was envisioning for that section was a dim through 56 (maybe to mp) and then another crescendo through bar 58

I tried listening to it that way and I wasnt too fond of it since in the original the background strings and bass gets quiet rather than the whole measure before it. I can understand adding in a pianistic flair, but it doesnt resonate with me sadly for this piece. I would be fine adding in a rit. with a subito piano and crescendo after if that works, or something along those lines.

[Libera]

Sorry again for the wait.  We are almost there I think.

I tried listening to it that way and I wasnt too fond of it since in the original the background strings and bass gets quiet rather than the whole measure before it. I can understand adding in a pianistic flair, but it doesnt resonate with me sadly for this piece. I would be fine adding in a rit. with a subito piano and crescendo after if that works, or something along those lines.

That's fair.  I think maybe though the jump mf -> p is a bit too abrupt, so mp might be more appropriate.  I still like the idea of a crescendo in bar 58 to get back to mf (in the original the percussion builds up going into bar 59).  Your choice though.

Some other comments based on how the feedback was implemented.

-Sorry if this was unclear but the double barline before the segno in bar 5 should go at the end of bar 4 rather than the start of bar 5.  Generally speaking the starting barline on a system is never altered (at least I've never seen it done).
-The C# accidental on beat 3 of bar 57 shouldn't be there at all.  The note should be a C#, but it doesn't need an accidental because of the C# on beat 2.5.  (It is also currently overlapping with the previous note).
-If you're hiding the rest in bar 65, the sixteenths should be flipped downwards.
-I think you would get a more consistent sound in the left hand if you removed the C and Bn in bar 53 so that the left hand stays as octaves throughout that section.  All of that harmony is in the RH anyway there so you don't lose anything from the chords (and it also sounds a bit less muddy).


That's it.  Everything else looks great.

[Atcero]

Should be all updated, thanks so much for your help on these bigger sheets!

[Libera]

You removed the Bn in bar 53 but not the C.

Also I just noticed that the sheet loops indefinitely, so you might want to edit the D.S. so that it only loops twice to stop the midi from being ridiculously long.