[DELETED] [PC] Deltarune - "BIG SHOT" by PlayfulPiano

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Undertale
Game: Deltarune
Console: PC
Title: BIG SHOT
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: PlayfulPiano

[PlayfulPiano]

NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A [[BIG SHOT]].

So uh I guess I'm planting my flag on being the first person to submit a Chapter 2 track. And it's BIG SHOT. And the chromatics.
Oh god the chromatics.

Ok, overall, I'm SUPER happy with how I did *most* of this arrangement so far. My main personal concerns come in:
-m29-m36 feeling possibly a bit empty
-m48-m52 if I got the chromatics right
-m53-m59 in regards to the accompaniment for the left hand
-m77-m78 in regards to the senza pedal position & the "Looping" text (for reference: the actual audio/midi does not repeat, I have the repeat set to only 1x play not 2x).

So yeah. Cool.

[Kricketune54]

Nice job on putting this together so soon after release.  Never played Deltarune or Undertale (it sits in my Steam library two years after purchase lol), but have enjoyed the music very much of both games.

Here's some aesthetic comments:

-I would fix the current page spacing on the first page.  There's a lot of space at the bottom, and I think the other systems wouldn't hurt to have some additional space to compensate
-m37's system is very close.  Increase the distance between staffs here
-m45-50 are very tight. As a matter of fact the rhythms seem like they'd line up fine if they were 3 systems of two measures here instead of the current selection.  I'd offer the same point for 13-24, and  m61-66.  Maybe this is subjective on my part, but maybe one more page of this won't hurt at all between these and the aforementioned distances.
-Move the dynamics in m1, m37, m60, m61 and the RH's mp in m77 just a bit to the right more so they're centered.
-Move the "Loops from Beginning." text higher

And as for actual Notes:

-m9 LH I hear this as the accompaniment/bass notes.  This is essentially what most of the LH would be doing for a huge chunk of the song, with some variation.

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-Furthermore, this is m9 melody part; I didn't include every pitch I heard for the 16th note part (the lower notes), and I might be missing a pitch on 1.5 and 1.25.

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-m53-m55 and m57-m59 I hear the first two notes of all of these measures as Fb and Db for beat 1, and Eb and Cn for beat 2.
-The following is what I heard at m56; apologies if I have some incorrect harmonic spellings

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-m53-m59 in regards to the accompaniment for the left hand

This LH portion needs a bit of a revisit, in addition to what I outlined for m56.  I do not hear the rhythm that was submitted, especially that second layer.  See my second photo below for a simplification idea I had for m56 so that the LH is a bit more manageable for this section.

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-The melody notes in m1-m8 RH are a little too long by at least a sixteenth note-  I don't hear these as tied or dotted eighth's but rather as staccato eighth's or sixteenth's depending on how the beaming falls


I think Big Shot needs some additional attention.  The LH part is very different from the actual song audio from m9 onwards, and the RH melody lines are often held way too long or not correct... I am not hearing a lot of the neighbor notes currently present that are making it sound a bit too dissonant.  I can give some further feedback regarding specific notes if there is some clarification needed because I didn't cover a whole lot notewise.

I'd focus first on fixing up the accompaniment parts given it's a fairly easy bassline to hear, and then circle back on the melody lines beyond what I commented about

[PlayfulPiano]

Nice job on putting this together so soon after release.  Never played Deltarune or Undertale (it sits in my Steam library two years after purchase lol), but have enjoyed the music very much of both games.

Here's some aesthetic comments:

-I would fix the current page spacing on the first page.  There's a lot of space at the bottom, and I think the other systems wouldn't hurt to have some additional space to compensate

Added some more spacing between systems for page one.

-m37's system is very close.  Increase the distance between staffs here

Fixed up spacing, also made it more even.

-m45-50 are very tight. As a matter of fact the rhythms seem like they'd line up fine if they were 3 systems of two measures here instead of the current selection.  I'd offer the same point for 13-24, and  m61-66.  Maybe this is subjective on my part, but maybe one more page of this won't hurt at all between these and the aforementioned distances.

I wouldn't have mind making it less measures per system, but as it stands right now the actual phrasing within the arrangement fits really well between pages (phrase 1 being the first 8 systems, transition phrase on the last system of page 2 and the first system of page 3, phrase 2 being the 2nd-5th systems on page 3, phrase 4 being the entirety of page 4 and the first two phrases of page 5, and then phrase 5 being the remainder of page 5 and the rest of page 6), besides it perfectly ending on a full page 6.

-Move the dynamics in m1, m37, m60, m61 and the RH's mp in m77 just a bit to the right more so they're centered.
-Move the "Loops from Beginning." text higher

Done with all of this. I made the dynamics position "center on primary notehead" so it should probably work fine like that.

And as for actual Notes:
-m9 LH I hear this as the accompaniment/bass notes.  This is essentially what most of the LH would be doing for a huge chunk of the song, with some variation.

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I do believe what you wrote is accurate (based on what I've seen from other people's arrangements or covers of the track), but in a solo piano context I don't think a direct 1:1 transcription would fit best here. It would sound too muddy with it being basically constant 16ths within a small note range. Plus there are parts later on in the track that I *really* enjoy with the accompaniment I currently have written (e.g. the final few measures when it's transposed upwards to Eb minor and has the correctly repeating rhythm with the Eb4/Bb3).

Not sure how this take will be viewed for like, updaters / NSM policy, but I hope this is fine long term for the arrangement even if it isn't fully accurate.

-Furthermore, this is m9 melody part; I didn't include every pitch I heard for the 16th note part (the lower notes), and I might be missing a pitch on 1.5 and 1.25.

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I have those notes included in what I written, but I wrote them with chromatic seconds due to the more (bloated? muted? muddy?) tone of the saxophone.

-m53-m55 and m57-m59 I hear the first two notes of all of these measures as Fb and Db for beat 1, and Eb and Cn for beat 2.

Good catch, fixed this.

-The following is what I heard at m56; apologies if I have some incorrect harmonic spellings

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Added the secondary layer to the right hand. Thanks for this (I made the Cb a Bn for reference, not sure which is the right harmonic spelling either lmao).

This LH portion needs a bit of a revisit, in addition to what I outlined for m56.  I do not hear the rhythm that was submitted, especially that second layer.  See my second photo below for a simplification idea I had for m56 so that the LH is a bit more manageable for this section.

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Oh no like I know the second lower layer is probably not the greatest for that section (I basically just wrote some random thing that sounded alright ish), but I did keep the doubling up of the melody an octave down since it's two instruments playing the notes at the same time. When I mentioned the accompaniment I mainly was referring to the second layer, not the doubled melody.
I just don't know what accompaniment to write while keeping the doubled melody in the left hand. I was thinking of something related to dotted eighths, hence what I wrote there.

-The melody notes in m1-m8 RH are a little too long by at least a sixteenth note-  I don't hear these as tied or dotted eighth's but rather as staccato eighth's or sixteenth's depending on how the beaming falls

I can make them staccato eighths for sure. Just m1-m8 or any point which has this sort of right hand phrasing? (i.e. m17-m24, m61-m76, did not change these for reference)

I think Big Shot needs some additional attention.  The LH part is very different from the actual song audio from m9 onwards, and the RH melody lines are often held way too long or not correct... I am not hearing a lot of the neighbor notes currently present that are making it sound a bit too dissonant.  I can give some further feedback regarding specific notes if there is some clarification needed because I didn't cover a whole lot notewise.

I'd focus first on fixing up the accompaniment parts given it's a fairly easy bassline to hear, and then circle back on the melody lines beyond what I commented about

I hope with my comments I might give a better idea on why I made some of the decisions I made with the bassline / that it's ok to keep as is.

Thanks for giving feedback though. Updated.

[Kricketune54]

Yeah sorry I was def thinking when I wrote this that there must've been some thought behind the accompaniment to be what it was.  I can understand your reasoning.

Anywhere there is that repeated m1-8 section I would make those notes consistent with each other, but if you wanted to keep this more of an arranged version of the song you could keep the note lengths as you have them.  As I listen to them again, I think it would be fine to at least take off the staccatos.  Maybe look at measures like m69-71 where the LH and RH are currently overlapping in a way that's going to be tough to do as written

[PlayfulPiano]

Yeah sorry I was def thinking when I wrote this that there must've been some thought behind the accompaniment to be what it was.  I can understand your reasoning.

Anywhere there is that repeated m1-8 section I would make those notes consistent with each other, but if you wanted to keep this more of an arranged version of the song you could keep the note lengths as you have them.  As I listen to them again, I think it would be fine to at least take off the staccatos.  Maybe look at measures like m69-71 where the LH and RH are currently overlapping in a way that's going to be tough to do as written

I kept the staccatos, I actually liked them since it helps keep the syncopation with the left clearer.

Also I did some fixes in the left hand that I didn't notice due to copying (as well as some mistaken barring).

Updated.

Edit 2021/09/23: Did some other extra note adjustments after looking through the track again. Mainly in regards to m29-m44, + some dynamics / crescendo additions. Also fixed a few missing ties in m25-26, and added some notable articulations.

Updated again.

[Static]

I'm going to be a bit frank here and just say, this really will need a lot of work... parts of this arrangement feel like they were rushed. I hope you're willing to work though this one, but I have a lot to say. Let's start with m1-24:

• Page 1: Right off the bat, I'm seeing a lot of collisions between rests and accidentals. These should go away by just clicking on each measure.
• Staccato markings should align with the center of the notehead, not the stem. See this post for details on how to fix that.
• One thing I would advise strongly against is using staccato markings on tied notes. It can be very unclear sometimes and is just more clutter than necessary. Just use a 16th note here with no staccato mark; you can also use a 16th note for beat 2.25:
  
• m1-8 LH: The Bbs in the bass are restruck every measure, they're not tied. In addition, there are no notes in between the octave Bbs. Those additional low notes make the LH part sound kinda muddy, especially in m7-8. Those extra chord tones should just be in the RH.
• All the E naturals in m1-8 RH would be better written as Fbs to stay consistent with the melody (except for m8 beats 3-4).
• The Eb in Layer 2 of m4/8 RH should be Fb.
• For m1-8, I would explicitly say to use the sostenuto pedal (usually indicated in the score as just sost.). This is the pedal that allows some notes to be held (i.e. the chords), while the melody can still be played separated.
• I really don't like commenting on arrangement styles or techniques unless I have to, since everyone will have their own preferences on how to do things - and that's completely normal and fine. However, I don't think constant pedal usage for m9-16 really gets the same vibe across that the original track does. The original track is very percussive, light, and detached in this section - not really how I would describe your arrangement of those 8 bars. You even have a crescendo going in to m8 when it sounds the opposite to me - there's a drop in energy here compared to the more powerful intro. So what would I suggest instead? Something that emulates the drum track more, while also borrowing from the original bassline that Kricketune mentioned. Let's see how this could work.
• Let's start with what the drums are doing. I wrote this in a piano staff, but the lower notes represent the kick drum, while the upper notes (dyads) represent the snare. There's some variations in the original with some added fills, etc. but this is the basic pattern:
  
  Your current LH part sort of follows this, but the snare/bass hits don't really line up with the original, giving it a different feel. This part is much simpler, but also more intimate and light feel.
• The original bassline is a little bit different than what Kricketune posted (though very close), it's this:
  
• So the next step would be to combine these parts. Here's how I would do it:
  
  It combines the rhythmic groove of the drums, some of the additional notes of the bass, and even keeps in the cool blues lick at the end of m10/etc. I think that lick adds a lot to the style of the tune. In addition, it's much easier to play since it all spans basically one octave, and it keeps the style and groove of the piece intact. The range is also less muddy than just the bassline by itself, staying within the same range as the current LH part. My point here is that there are other ways to write an accompaniment that still aren't 1:1 transcriptions, but also still help preserve the style. I would highly suggest using this LH pattern, or something similar.
• The RH part of m9-16 sounds much different to me. Even of the melody of the original isn't quite in tune, writing in all those minor 2nds sounds very strange on the piano, much more dissonant than the original.
• All Ens should be spelled as Fbs here.
• m9 actually doesn't have a note on the downbeat.
• m10 beat 4 should be C-Eb instead of Bb-Eb.
• m12 beats 3-4 should be voiced in minor thirds (Gn-Bb, Eb-Gb) instead of minor seconds.
• With all this information taken into consideration, this is how m9-12 should look:
  
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  Note how I removed the Bbs in from that LH pattern on beat 3.5 of m9-11 since they're doubled in the RH.
• m13-16 should look exactly the same as m9-12, except there is a note on the downbeat of m13. The added vocal line makes it sound like there's additional harmonies, but there actually aren't any. However, I would agree that adding some additional RH harmonies helps distinguish this section. This is how I would do it:
  
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  I only added harmonies to certain accented notes in the melody - this is to avoid very fast 16th note dyads and repeated 16th notes when they aren't really necessary and make the sheet way more difficult than it needs to be. Keep in mind this is a pretty fast tempo. The dissonance of beats 3-4 of m16 comes from implied diminished harmonies, rather than minor 2nd intervals.
• m17-24 RH: Pretty much just follow my feedback for m1-8 RH, same stuff here.
• m17-24 LH: This is actually where I keep continue using the LH pattern that you have - however this would mean using the pedal for this entire section. That means you can make the RH non-staccato (just tie everything as you did in your earlier drafts):
  
  The difference here is that the first snare hit lines up with the original on beat 1.5 instead of 1.75, and the 16th notes better match up with the bassline, while still being in the upper register.

Hopefully this is helpful at least a little bit. If you want any clarification or have any questions, let me know.

[PlayfulPiano]

I'm going to be a bit frank here and just say, this really will need a lot of work... parts of this arrangement feel like they were rushed. I hope you're willing to work though this one, but I have a lot to say. Let's start with m1-24:

Yeah I expected as much since I did try to upload this for the algorithm on YT expecting a good amount of fixes through here. Albeit I do think overall it's not that bad outside of some visual errors / note inconsistencies.

• Page 1: Right off the bat, I'm seeing a lot of collisions between rests and accidentals. These should go away by just clicking on each measure.
• Staccato markings should align with the center of the notehead, not the stem. See this post for details on how to fix that.
• One thing I would advise strongly against is using staccato markings on tied notes. It can be very unclear sometimes and is just more clutter than necessary. Just use a 16th note here with no staccato mark; you can also use a 16th note for beat 2.25:
  

Fixed everything here, didn't do the 16th for b2.25 though since it's not going across a beat and imo is fine to keep as an 8th then.

• m1-8 LH: The Bbs in the bass are restruck every measure, they're not tied. In addition, there are no notes in between the octave Bbs. Those additional low notes make the LH part sound kinda muddy, especially in m7-8. Those extra chord tones should just be in the RH.

I definitely hear on playback the Bbs being played every two measures, not every measure. The low notes were there mainly to put more emphasis on the chord, but if you believe they're too muddy then I'll remove them.

• All the E naturals in m1-8 RH would be better written as Fbs to stay consistent with the melody (except for m8 beats 3-4).

Fixed all cases of Fb/En inconsistencies to be standardized to En. At least I believe I did.

• The Eb in Layer 2 of m4/8 RH should be Fb.

Fixed.

• For m1-8, I would explicitly say to use the sostenuto pedal (usually indicated in the score as just sost.). This is the pedal that allows some notes to be held (i.e. the chords), while the melody can still be played separated.

Added the pedal marking, although just as a personal reference it's just con pedale renamed to that to keep playback consistent on my side of things (idk if there's a way to apply sost in finale through playback).

• I really don't like commenting on arrangement styles or techniques unless I have to, since everyone will have their own preferences on how to do things - and that's completely normal and fine. However, I don't think constant pedal usage for m9-16 really gets the same vibe across that the original track does. The original track is very percussive, light, and detached in this section - not really how I would describe your arrangement of those 8 bars. You even have a crescendo going in to m8 when it sounds the opposite to me - there's a drop in energy here compared to the more powerful intro.

In regards to the crescendo specifically, it's meant to mimic the buildup entering the m9-16 phrase from the crash cymbal. I also figured that the more animated phrase should be somewhat louder, hence making its dynamic forte.

So what would I suggest instead? Something that emulates the drum track more, while also borrowing from the original bassline that Kricketune mentioned. Let's see how this could work.[/li]

• Let's start with what the drums are doing. I wrote this in a piano staff, but the lower notes represent the kick drum, while the upper notes (dyads) represent the snare. There's some variations in the original with some added fills, etc. but this is the basic pattern:
  
  Your current LH part sort of follows this, but the snare/bass hits don't really line up with the original, giving it a different feel. This part is much simpler, but also more intimate and light feel.
• The original bassline is a little bit different than what Kricketune posted (though very close), it's this:
  
• So the next step would be to combine these parts. Here's how I would do it:
  
  It combines the rhythmic groove of the drums, some of the additional notes of the bass, and even keeps in the cool blues lick at the end of m10/etc. I think that lick adds a lot to the style of the tune. In addition, it's much easier to play since it all spans basically one octave, and it keeps the style and groove of the piece intact. The range is also less muddy than just the bassline by itself, staying within the same range as the current LH part. My point here is that there are other ways to write an accompaniment that still aren't 1:1 transcriptions, but also still help preserve the style. I would highly suggest using this LH pattern, or something similar.

We talked about this in discord earlier, and I want to save this as like the last change possibly after doing fixes to the rest of the arrangement.

• The RH part of m9-16 sounds much different to me. Even of the melody of the original isn't quite in tune, writing in all those minor 2nds sounds very strange on the piano, much more dissonant than the original.
• All Ens should be spelled as Fbs here.
• m9 actually doesn't have a note on the downbeat.
• m10 beat 4 should be C-Eb instead of Bb-Eb.
• m12 beats 3-4 should be voiced in minor thirds (Gn-Bb, Eb-Gb) instead of minor seconds.
• With all this information taken into consideration, this is how m9-12 should look:
  
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  Note how I removed the Bbs in from that LH pattern on beat 3.5 of m9-11 since they're doubled in the RH.
• m13-16 should look exactly the same as m9-12, except there is a note on the downbeat of m13. The added vocal line makes it sound like there's additional harmonies, but there actually aren't any. However, I would agree that adding some additional RH harmonies helps distinguish this section. This is how I would do it:
  
  Spoiler

  

  [close]
  I only added harmonies to certain accented notes in the melody - this is to avoid very fast 16th note dyads and repeated 16th notes when they aren't really necessary and make the sheet way more difficult than it needs to be. Keep in mind this is a pretty fast tempo. The dissonance of beats 3-4 of m16 comes from implied diminished harmonies, rather than minor 2nd intervals.

Overall I do honestly hear it to be that dissonant with the minor 2nds, especially when listening to the original at a slower pace. Although maybe not in every case. I did a small edit after listening to it again.
I definitely hear the downbeat in m9. It's definitely quieter than in later measures but it's there, albeit hidden a bit by the bass.
Fixed m10.
Fixed m12/16's wrong intervals.
Fixed the wrong notes in m13-m16 but kept the minor 2nds in some spots.

• m17-24 RH: Pretty much just follow my feedback for m1-8 RH, same stuff here.
• m17-24 LH: This is actually where I keep continue using the LH pattern that you have - however this would mean using the pedal for this entire section. That means you can make the RH non-staccato (just tie everything as you did in your earlier drafts):
  
  The difference here is that the first snare hit lines up with the original on beat 1.5 instead of 1.75, and the 16th notes better match up with the bassline, while still being in the upper register.

Hopefully this is helpful at least a little bit. If you want any clarification or have any questions, let me know.

Did the same changes here, but kept the left hand intact for now.

Updated.

[Static]

Yeah I expected as much since I did try to upload this for the algorithm on YT expecting a good amount of fixes through here. Albeit I do think overall it's not that bad outside of some visual errors / note inconsistencies.

My point was, you shouldn't expect us to have to help you though the entire arranging process in the sub board - submissions should be as polished as you can make them on your own. I've pointed out several note-related errors already. I know it's tempting to submit things immediately for new games, but it's not always such a good idea for these big pieces. Anyways...

I definitely hear on playback the Bbs being played every two measures, not every measure. The low notes were there mainly to put more emphasis on the chord, but if you believe they're too muddy then I'll remove them.

Have you tried raising this up an octave in Audacity/Audiostretch? The bass sounds restruck to me, and it's not just drums. The attack of the note is pretty firm. It's not as noticeable when hearing it in the normal octave.

Added the pedal marking, although just as a personal reference it's just con pedale renamed to that to keep playback consistent on my side of things (idk if there's a way to apply sost in finale through playback).

The playback would be how it's written - the melody is played short and the chords are held. The senza pedale marking in m9 could be moved up, it's pretty far away from the staff.

In regards to the crescendo specifically, it's meant to mimic the buildup entering the m9-16 phrase from the crash cymbal. I also figured that the more animated phrase should be somewhat louder, hence making its dynamic forte.

I can understand the crescendo, but m9 still sounds like it's at a lower dynamic to me, especially compared to m17. I think it would make more sense if you started the piece with forte in m1, crescendo in m8 to a mezzoforte in m9, then go back up to forte in m17.

We talked about this in discord earlier, and I want to save this as like the last change possibly after doing fixes to the rest of the arrangement.

I'm still not convinced this is really an accurate interpretation, but if you insist on using them, I would not have them in 2+ consecutive 16th notes (just try playing it). Just have them right on beat 3, not 3.25. Also, m10-12 are missing the En on beat 2.25.
Also regarding this part, the notes on beat 1.5 (the tied notes) I hear as short in the original, quite so. Just a staccato 8th note would work here.

We talked about this in discord earlier, and I want to save this as like the last change possibly after doing fixes to the rest of the arrangement.

That's fine. I would still highly recommended using the LH patterns I gave you in my previous post, or the screenshot I sent in Discord:

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The other changes look good.

To be honest, it might be a good idea for you to have some time to work on this at your own pace and resubmit it later. I'd be willing to help you if you want, but I don't think the submissions board is really the place for that - at least not in this current state. Maybe another updater can weigh in on this, but that's just how I'm feeling with this one.

[Libera]

Yeah I expected as much since I did try to upload this for the algorithm on YT expecting a good amount of fixes through here. Albeit I do think overall it's not that bad outside of some visual errors / note inconsistencies.

I understand that the modus operandi of internet arrangers is to rush things out as fast as possible for the views, but really arranging takes a lot of hard work and shouldn't be rushed.  It's fine to do it to get views on your personal channel, but here we expect a high quality for sheets and it's not fair to expect the updaters to essentially rearrange it for you to bring it up to that quality. 

To be honest, it might be a good idea for you to have some time to work on this at your own pace and resubmit it later. I'd be willing to help you if you want, but I don't think the submissions board is really the place for that - at least not in this current state. Maybe another updater can weigh in on this, but that's just how I'm feeling with this one.

Having looked at this arrangement myself earlier, I agree with Static here.  The submissions board isn't intended for sheets that need this much work; it's just not fair on the updating staff and takes away from the time we can spend getting more polished sheets onto the site.  If you need help on an arrangement then feel free to post it in your PA thread or ask in the #help channel in the discord server.  I will say though that if you find that you're needing to ask for help constantly on a sheet, then it probably means that the piece is too hard for you to arrange and you should focus on something that you're more able to make progress on.

[PlayfulPiano]

My point was, you shouldn't expect us to have to help you though the entire arranging process in the sub board - submissions should be as polished as you can make them on your own. I've pointed out several note-related errors already. I know it's tempting to submit things immediately for new games, but it's not always such a good idea for these big pieces. Anyways...

Honestly though even before submitting I didn't really think there were many significant changes that would've been needed before starting the process in itself. And the stuff that did change I did pretty early on before receiving feedback. Maybe instead of starting as it was initially it would've started out here, but I don't think it would've been more developed beyond this point is what I mean.

Have you tried raising this up an octave in Audacity/Audiostretch? The bass sounds restruck to me, and it's not just drums. The attack of the note is pretty firm. It's not as noticeable when hearing it in the normal octave.

Hm, I think it might be two instruments playing? One does it every measure and the other does it every two measures. Because I definitely hear something much different (including in the octave up audacity) for measures 1/3 vs. 2/4. Maybe it's something like a tied Bb2 and an untied Bb3?

The playback would be how it's written - the melody is played short and the chords are held. The senza pedale marking in m9 could be moved up, it's pretty far away from the staff.

Fixed the senza pedale placement (whoops I had it positioned forgetting that I hid an mf), but I meant in terms of like finale playback as just a personal reference.

I can understand the crescendo, but m9 still sounds like it's at a lower dynamic to me, especially compared to m17. I think it would make more sense if you started the piece with forte in m1, crescendo in m8 to a mezzoforte in m9, then go back up to forte in m17.

Actually not a bad idea. Changed (also removed the accents in reference to the forte addition).

I'm still not convinced this is really an accurate interpretation, but if you insist on using them, I would not have them in 2+ consecutive 16th notes (just try playing it). Just have them right on beat 3, not 3.25. Also, m10-12 are missing the En on beat 2.25.

When you mean consecutive 16ths do you mean in terms of the dyad or of two 16ths of the same pitch in a row? Because I don't see any case of the latter excluding m20/m24 (as to avoid crossing with the right hand). And if you mean the former, I thought that two repeated sixteenths in a 1-5-8 block chord (not sure how to call it) is a fairly common pattern in music.

At least on finale's end, there's no missing En in the right hand that I can find. Do you mean I should include a courtesy natural?

Also regarding this part, the notes on beat 1.5 (the tied notes) I hear as short in the original, quite so. Just a staccato 8th note would work here.

Just realized now confusing decimal beat nomenclature can be, haha. I'm assuming you're talking about the right hand here and not the left. Fixed.

To be honest, it might be a good idea for you to have some time to work on this at your own pace and resubmit it later. I'd be willing to help you if you want, but I don't think the submissions board is really the place for that - at least not in this current state. Maybe another updater can weigh in on this, but that's just how I'm feeling with this one.

Again here's the thing though (also referring to Libera). In my perspective of the current arrangement as is, I would've viewed it as "completed" and submitted it. I might've done a rundown through the whole thing to fix inconsistency errors with like #/b or formatting, but overall I wouldn't have come up with a lot of the feedback you gave on my own honestly (regarding the dynamics, or the sost pedal, or even some of the note pitches due to how fast paced and dissonant the track is).
I am definitely willing to get through this whole thing though, especially in part because I don't think my arrangement has had the same roadblocks some of my past arrangements have had in terms of like incorrect instruments/pitches to focus on arranging (beyond the heart)or over-reliance on a midi (quicksand pit). Like outside of the left hand (which if push comes to shove I'll just shift the dyad by a 16th beat leftwards in b1 and then it'll more or less be fine), I don't think the melodies I've been grabbing or the notes are all that inaccurate or poor for a piano performer.

Updated, and I did do another double check through the sheet trying to spot any other inconsistencies in note pitches or note overlaps. Plus fixing some more formatting issues I missed earlier.

[Zeila]

Wow I spent so long on this post that additional commentary has been made (some with duplicate feedback too)... I will say though that this will require a lot of fine tuning, and depending on how quickly you respond to feedback or make your own changes, it may be better to just shelf this for now and work on it on the side like how Static and Libera are suggesting. Thankfully a lot of it is repetitive in regards to the bassline or harmonies though, so it's actually not that time consuming to change everything. It's mainly just trying to come up with ways to adapt it to piano while maintaining the feel of the original song, and when the accompaniment is mostly the same throughout the entire song then it's easy to just copy/paste. The melody is mostly there

Before I get started, one thing that stood out to me was the text "Loops from Beginning." instead of a D.C. without a repeat bar. Also for future reference, you can bind text to a specific measure instead of the page by editing the frame attributes and changing it to the appropriate measure

Here are my thoughts about the current feedback:

• m1-8 LH I agree with Static in that the bass notes are restruck every measure, and that if anything you could just put accents on every other note instead of only having the top note repeat
• Regarding sost. playback, if you already have whole notes in a different layer then that is technically how it would sound, or at least a closer estimate. Using the sustained pedal playback makes the RH lose its separation
• Like Playful, I also hear a downbeat in measure 9
• m9-16 RH I agree with Static and that the harmonies sound like consistent minor thirds throughout (plus an additional 6 semitones below the lower one, but I'm less sure about that being consistent with some parts). It generally sounds like a transposed version of NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A, and that one is much easier to hear (I also checked with this one pitched up an octave to make sure that the notes were the same, and it sounds right to me for the most part)
• With that being said, there are a few suggested harmonies that I hear differently:
      * m12/16 beat 4 you actually wrote this incorrectly presumably because of the En's earlier in the measures, but those En's should still be Eb's
      * m13-16 those Db's (or En in your sheet) sound like Dn's to me
      * m13/15 beat 4 Bb sounds like Cb
      * m14 beat 4 Ab sounds like Gb
      * m16 beat 4 this is tricky to me because while it sounds like it could be a Bb playing on the bottom, it also sometimes sounds like Bbb to me (which would correspond with the diminished harmonies Static was talking about), and that would be the only (or one of the only) notes to break the pattern if it were a Bb. I think pitching it up an octave is messing with my brain at that spot because it seems more like Bbb when in its regular register (or maybe the regular register is messing with my brain?? idk)
  

And now for stuff that Static didn't cover already:
m16 + m25-28

• m16 beats 3-4 sound like staccato eighth notes instead of sixteenth notes
• m25-28 I would go back to staccato here instead of continuing with pedal usage. Or maybe just measures 25 and 26 while 27-28 use the same pattern you have for m17-24 (alongside an updated bassline in the future)
• m26 beat 3 I think it's more important to put the bass note here instead of the 5th; other than that I will ignore LH accompaniment suggestions as of now per your request
• m25/26 RH notes: these are also inverted diminished chords with the minor thirds and flat 5ths down below similar to measures 9-16; however in measure 25 it sounds like beat 1.5 might have a Bb below while 2.25 has an Ab below, even though that also breaks the pattern. I guess it doesn't matter which one is correct if you're not going to include it, but I'm just dumping my thoughts out anyways. Here's generally what I hear, omitting the lower notes from beats 1/3 (you could keep them all as dyads like you currently have):
  You cannot view this attachment.
  Even though I'm unsure about measure 25, I kept beats 1.5 and 2.25 as Ab-Dn-F for consistency. Also it may be better to just stick with flats and double flats like with the last chord instead of using those sharps, but idk
• m28 RH beat 2.5 missing Ab

m29-44

• m29-44 is a tricky section. For starters, where did you get the LH pattern from? Is that just inferred from the chords or is that something you actually hear? From what I gathered, the three different layers are:
• Melody:
  You cannot view this attachment.
  You have this already, except measure 31 should come in an eighth note early. Also I think the harmonies only come in at m41, but I'm unsure. And either way, they should stay as thirds below throughout (e.g. in m41 you wrote the last dyad as F-Bb instead of Gb-Bb)
• Bass:
  This is the same pattern Static mentioned, so I won't resend a picture
• Power of NEO motif:
  You cannot view this attachment.
  This is the weird part because it sounds like there are different layers of this playing at the same time and it's hard to tell

Now how can we bring those together? Well this kind of ties into the feedback regarding the accompaniment in measures 9-16/17-24 because of the bassline, so I'll leave that up to you to ruminate on. So far the blend sounds fine on the RH side, but it deviates too much from the original song (particularly with m37-44) in the LH

m45-m60

• I also think this section should keep the staccatos as that's very noticeable and distinct in the original
• Yet again, this includes the general diminished chord pattern like in m9-16. I'm only going to focus on note corrections for the top notes though
• m45-47 sound just like m9-11 or 13-15, so aside from the extra harmonies you're good there
• m48/52 beat 3.5 should be two sixteenth notes that go C-En; beat 4 sounds like Gb-En 32nd notes, then an Eb sixteenth note, then Bn eighth note (I'm unsure about the little 32nd note ornament though, and you could just simplify that anyways). I think Fb makes more sense overall but I guess you could continue with sticking to En if other people think that's okay if not better. I'm still not very well versed with enharmonic spellings
• m49 beat 4.5 missing An
• m51 beat 1 sounds like it should be lowered an octave, and 1.5 is missing an F an octave below the one on beat 2; beat 3 instead of a dotted eighth note, it sounds like it goes Db -> En -> Bb in descending order, although since that is quite the jump, you could omit the En and bring the Bb up an octave
• Altogether it sounds like this to me:
  You cannot view this attachment.
• m53/55/57/59 beats 4.25 and on sound like Ab-An-Bb instead of Ab-Bb-Db
• m53-59 unlike m45-52, the harmony notes sound right here, but I think you should add the flat 5th's here too (so Abb and Bb on beats 1 and 2 respectively), and then maybe some harmony notes on beats 3.75-end of measures 54/58
• m60 I think separating the dynamics here is a little redundant when the performer would naturally try to bring the melody out

m61-68 are the same as m17-24, so moving on...
m69-end

• I know I said I would avoid commenting on the accompaniment, but I just want to note that the bassline is the same here even though the melody/harmonies changed. So whatever you do, I would recommend keeping the Bb as the center focus at least on beat 1
• m69-72 I would personally include the harmonies in that main melody here too
• m69+ beats 1-2 instead of eighth notes, they sound like repeated sixteenth notes to me (the one starting beat 2.25 is less noticeable but it still sounds like two separate attacks)
• m70/74 beats 3-4 and beats 1-2 of measure 72 sound slightly more connected due to the added instrument playing, so I would recommend omitting the staccatos and tying the sixteenth note to an eighth note (see picture below)
• m72 beat 3 sounds like two sixteenth notes; beat 4 sounds like two sixteenth F's and then a D eighth note. Also these are the harmonies I hear, but I'm unsure
  You cannot view this attachment.
• m76 you're missing out on two(?) extra harmony lines, and the one you wrote didn't go up chromatically all the way through. It is unclear to me, but I think this sounds close:
  You cannot view this attachment.
  
• m76 I think it would be nice to include a dynamic marking on beat 4.75 (as included in the picture above)
• m77/78 beat 4 sounds like an eighth rest instead of a tied Gb
• m78 beat 1 the two Bb's sound like a swung eighth + sixteenth note instead of an eighth note and grace note. Also I would omit the staccato on the first note

Whew, I think after this a lot of it is just creative decisions instead of outright errors with notes/rhythms (except for some I may be incorrect on or others I might have missed during this check)

[PlayfulPiano]

Wow I spent so long on this post that additional commentary has been made (some with duplicate feedback too)... I will say though that this will require a lot of fine tuning, and depending on how quickly you respond to feedback or make your own changes, it may be better to just shelf this for now and work on it on the side like how Static and Libera are suggesting. Thankfully a lot of it is repetitive in regards to the bassline or harmonies though, so it's actually not that time consuming to change everything. It's mainly just trying to come up with ways to adapt it to piano while maintaining the feel of the original song, and when the accompaniment is mostly the same throughout the entire song then it's easy to just copy/paste. The melody is mostly there

Before I get started, one thing that stood out to me was the text "Loops from Beginning." instead of a D.C. without a repeat bar. Also for future reference, you can bind text to a specific measure instead of the page by editing the frame attributes and changing it to the appropriate measure

Here are my thoughts about the current feedback:

• m1-8 LH I agree with Static in that the bass notes are restruck every measure, and that if anything you could just put accents on every other note instead of only having the top note repeat
• Regarding sost. playback, if you already have whole notes in a different layer then that is technically how it would sound, or at least a closer estimate. Using the sustained pedal playback makes the RH lose its separation
• Like Playful, I also hear a downbeat in measure 9
• m9-16 RH I agree with Static and that the harmonies sound like consistent minor thirds throughout (plus an additional 6 semitones below the lower one, but I'm less sure about that being consistent with some parts). It generally sounds like a transposed version of NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A, and that one is much easier to hear (I also checked with this one pitched up an octave to make sure that the notes were the same, and it sounds right to me for the most part)
• With that being said, there are a few suggested harmonies that I hear differently:
      * m12/16 beat 4 you actually wrote this incorrectly presumably because of the En's earlier in the measures, but those En's should still be Eb's
      * m13-16 those Db's (or En in your sheet) sound like Dn's to me
      * m13/15 beat 4 Bb sounds like Cb
      * m14 beat 4 Ab sounds like Gb
      * m16 beat 4 this is tricky to me because while it sounds like it could be a Bb playing on the bottom, it also sometimes sounds like Bbb to me (which would correspond with the diminished harmonies Static was talking about), and that would be the only (or one of the only) notes to break the pattern if it were a Bb. I think pitching it up an octave is messing with my brain at that spot because it seems more like Bbb when in its regular register (or maybe the regular register is messing with my brain?? idk)
  

And now for stuff that Static didn't cover already:
m16 + m25-28

• m16 beats 3-4 sound like staccato eighth notes instead of sixteenth notes
• m25-28 I would go back to staccato here instead of continuing with pedal usage. Or maybe just measures 25 and 26 while 27-28 use the same pattern you have for m17-24 (alongside an updated bassline in the future)
• m26 beat 3 I think it's more important to put the bass note here instead of the 5th; other than that I will ignore LH accompaniment suggestions as of now per your request
• m25/26 RH notes: these are also inverted diminished chords with the minor thirds and flat 5ths down below similar to measures 9-16; however in measure 25 it sounds like beat 1.5 might have a Bb below while 2.25 has an Ab below, even though that also breaks the pattern. I guess it doesn't matter which one is correct if you're not going to include it, but I'm just dumping my thoughts out anyways. Here's generally what I hear, omitting the lower notes from beats 1/3 (you could keep them all as dyads like you currently have):
  You cannot view this attachment.
  Even though I'm unsure about measure 25, I kept beats 1.5 and 2.25 as Ab-Dn-F for consistency. Also it may be better to just stick with flats and double flats like with the last chord instead of using those sharps, but idk
• m28 RH beat 2.5 missing Ab

m29-44

• m29-44 is a tricky section. For starters, where did you get the LH pattern from? Is that just inferred from the chords or is that something you actually hear? From what I gathered, the three different layers are:
• Melody:
  You cannot view this attachment.
  You have this already, except measure 31 should come in an eighth note early. Also I think the harmonies only come in at m41, but I'm unsure. And either way, they should stay as thirds below throughout (e.g. in m41 you wrote the last dyad as F-Bb instead of Gb-Bb)
• Bass:
  This is the same pattern Static mentioned, so I won't resend a picture
• Power of NEO motif:
  You cannot view this attachment.
  This is the weird part because it sounds like there are different layers of this playing at the same time and it's hard to tell

Now how can we bring those together? Well this kind of ties into the feedback regarding the accompaniment in measures 9-16/17-24 because of the bassline, so I'll leave that up to you to ruminate on. So far the blend sounds fine on the RH side, but it deviates too much from the original song (particularly with m37-44) in the LH

m45-m60

• I also think this section should keep the staccatos as that's very noticeable and distinct in the original
• Yet again, this includes the general diminished chord pattern like in m9-16. I'm only going to focus on note corrections for the top notes though
• m45-47 sound just like m9-11 or 13-15, so aside from the extra harmonies you're good there
• m48/52 beat 3.5 should be two sixteenth notes that go C-En; beat 4 sounds like Gb-En 32nd notes, then an Eb sixteenth note, then Bn eighth note (I'm unsure about the little 32nd note ornament though, and you could just simplify that anyways). I think Fb makes more sense overall but I guess you could continue with sticking to En if other people think that's okay if not better. I'm still not very well versed with enharmonic spellings
• m49 beat 4.5 missing An
• m51 beat 1 sounds like it should be lowered an octave, and 1.5 is missing an F an octave below the one on beat 2; beat 3 instead of a dotted eighth note, it sounds like it goes Db -> En -> Bb in descending order, although since that is quite the jump, you could omit the En and bring the Bb up an octave
• Altogether it sounds like this to me:
  You cannot view this attachment.
• m53/55/57/59 beats 4.25 and on sound like Ab-An-Bb instead of Ab-Bb-Db
• m53-59 unlike m45-52, the harmony notes sound right here, but I think you should add the flat 5th's here too (so Abb and Bb on beats 1 and 2 respectively), and then maybe some harmony notes on beats 3.75-end of measures 54/58
• m60 I think separating the dynamics here is a little redundant when the performer would naturally try to bring the melody out

m61-68 are the same as m17-24, so moving on...
m69-end

• I know I said I would avoid commenting on the accompaniment, but I just want to note that the bassline is the same here even though the melody/harmonies changed. So whatever you do, I would recommend keeping the Bb as the center focus at least on beat 1
• m69-72 I would personally include the harmonies in that main melody here too
• m69+ beats 1-2 instead of eighth notes, they sound like repeated sixteenth notes to me (the one starting beat 2.25 is less noticeable but it still sounds like two separate attacks)
• m70/74 beats 3-4 and beats 1-2 of measure 72 sound slightly more connected due to the added instrument playing, so I would recommend omitting the staccatos and tying the sixteenth note to an eighth note (see picture below)
• m72 beat 3 sounds like two sixteenth notes; beat 4 sounds like two sixteenth F's and then a D eighth note. Also these are the harmonies I hear, but I'm unsure
  You cannot view this attachment.
• m76 you're missing out on two(?) extra harmony lines, and the one you wrote didn't go up chromatically all the way through. It is unclear to me, but I think this sounds close:
  You cannot view this attachment.
  
• m76 I think it would be nice to include a dynamic marking on beat 4.75 (as included in the picture above)
• m77/78 beat 4 sounds like an eighth rest instead of a tied Gb
• m78 beat 1 the two Bb's sound like a swung eighth + sixteenth note instead of an eighth note and grace note. Also I would omit the staccato on the first note

Whew, I think after this a lot of it is just creative decisions instead of outright errors with notes/rhythms (except for some I may be incorrect on or others I might have missed during this check)

We both went through everything but the contents of the last page (m69+) over on discord. Includes a lot of fixes in harmonies / pitches which caused a lot of the difference of opinion previously, so now it should definitely look at lot more presentable / accurate.

Wanted to post an updated version just so what's currently shown isn't accurate to the current progress of the changes.

Edit 2021/09/30 2AM: Ok *now* we went through everything, including the last page.

[Static]

This is a big shot sheet, so I'm going to cover what I already went over and discussed with you for now. I'll get to the rest of the stuff later this week.

First of all, this is looking much improved from last time. You and Zeila have done a lot of great work - awesome!

I still have a few comments though:

• I'm still not really a fan of beat 3 of your LH accompaniment starting at m9. I just don't hear this downwards contour on beat 3 in any part of the original. Maybe someone else has other ideas. I'd just suggest doing something similar to beat 1.
  
  • In addition, I would also suggest adding an extra note on beat 4.75 of m9/11/13/etc. to match the other measures. My first choice would be an Eb to match the bass, but F would work too.
  • On beat 3.75 of m10/12/14/etc., I would strongly suggest using En/Fb instead of Bb. This probably the most important note of the bassline since it highlights the Bb blues scale.
• I know I said it's good to be consistent when it comes to using the #4/b5 - well I kinda take that back because not always. The melody in m10 would look much nicer without that augmented 2nd, so I would say it's actually better to just use Fb here. In the blues scale (which is what this piece mostly uses), the #4 and b5 are equivalent so it's OK to switch between them when it looks better.
• m13/15 beat 4: Bns should be Cbs. Remember what that guy said in Discord, where each note in the melody is is harmonized a minor 3rd and major 6th below it. Keep those intervals consistent.
• m16 RH beat 4: Similarly, Ans should be Bbbs.
• m17-24 LH: You can beam beat 1 across if you want to like you had before. Also, the accompaniment on beats 1-2 doesn't really line up with the original (neither do beats 3-4 still but I already went over that). You have beat 1.75 with an added upper note (mimicking the snare), but this hit is on beat 1.5. I would write it similarly to beats 1-2 of m9-16:
  
  The groove and style of the piece is hugely important, as is the case for anything jazz or rock. This is why I'm very particular about these things.
• m20/24 beat 3: I know you're trying to make sure that the notes don't cross hands here, which is usually also what I'd suggest doing. But look at the LH, where that Ab has to be repeated. I would actually say this is easier to play if the RH just plays the Ab octave there while the LH plays the Bb. The notes are so close together that it's hardly a big deal to cross hands just for that one moment.
  

You should be able to apply this feedback to m45-52 and 61-76 as well. I will look at the remaining sections next time.

[Zeila]

m13/15 beat 4: Bns should be Cbs. Remember what that guy said in Discord, where each note in the melody is is harmonized a minor 3rd and major 6th below it. Keep those intervals consistent.

Hey, quick question regarding this, but why would it be better to classify the intervals as harmonized minor 3rds/major 6ths as opposed to inverted diminished chords in the form of 5-1-3? Is it because the former is more relative to the actual melody note? Or does it not matter either way? I would just like to have a better understanding