[3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes - "Woodlands" by Cashwarrior1

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Submission Information:
Series: The Legend of Zelda
Game: The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes
Console: Nintendo 3DS
Title: Woodlands
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Cashwarrior1

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[cashwarrior1]

Hi I was bored and wanted to listen to triforce heroes sheets but y'all ain't got any. Anyways, this piece's melody and harmony are like an octave apart the majority of the time so I had to diverge from it a few times just so it plays better (not that it's all that playable with all the dissonant intervals). I also tried to make it sound more full since there's a guitar in the piece but that's a pain to try playing on the piano, instead I opted for chords and harmonies when needed (I purposely left the guitar out of measures 2 and 3 because I think having that extra air gives more focus on the bass).

Anyways, I don't remember the submission process or what the sheets need to look like, hopefully I got it right lol

[Khunjund]

Seems pretty good overall, but here are a few things to consider:

• I don't think that character indication is going to pass.
  
• Your left hand pattern is just slightly off. This is what it looks like in measure 2 (it's mostly like this throughout until measure 10):
  
  
• Consider slurring your acciaccature.
  
• Since you used layer two for the upper part in measure 15, the notes on beat four are misaligned; the G-B dyad should line up with the right hand notes, and the F should be to the side, with the stems aligned.
  
• Measures 29–34 should are in F# minor, so the key signature should be three sharps, the F naturals in measure 31 should be written E#, etc. By the way, it's customary to use a double bar before key signature changes.
  
• The chord in measure 34 is an augmented sixth that resolves to A, so the A# should be written Bb.
  

In general, I think you should pay closer attention to how you split your measures. In measure 4, for instance, you make a 3+3+2+2+2 split, but the beats in measure 5 are beamed in regular quarters throughout, even though the rhythm is the same (as accentuated by the bass). The passage starting from measure 21 is also beamed in straight quarters when the rhythm is still clearly 3+3+2+2+2, and the eighths in measures 30–34 are beamed by twos when the rhythm is clearly by threes (which also makes the quadruplets look really off). I think beaming like this to clarify rhythmic intent could be possible while maintaining a 6/4 time signature throught the whole piece, but maybe someone else would be inclined to suggest different time signatures for each section—just some food for thought.

[cashwarrior1]

Ah, thanks for the neat list. I'm not sure what you mean by slurring the acciaccature, from what I understand that's supposed to be the grace notes but why exactly should they be slurred?

[Khunjund]

There are two types of grace notes: appoggiature, which are unslashed, and acciaccature, which are slashed. In any case, slashing them is just a widespread practice to help people group them together at a glance; you don't have to do it if you don't want to.

[mastersuperfan]

Sorry for the delay on this one. Here's some feedback (note: I'm gonna go by 6/4 time in denoting beat numbers, even if some sections are beamed as 12/8 rather than 6/4):
- Tempo should be 162 BPM instead of 160.
- Yeah, as what Khunjund said, I don't think that character indication really works. I know that, in the past, there have tended to be sheets with tongue-in-cheeck tempo markings (Undertale comes to mind), but I think they should either be short, or at least be somewhat informative of the playing style (preferably both). In this case, this tempo marking is neither.
- I hear the whole piece as having a constant quarter-note pulse (including the parts you wrote with eighth notes grouped in beams of 3), so my recommendation would be to write the intro as 4/4 and the rest of it as 3/4. Other people may hear it differently, though, and it might be better to wait for the opinion of a second updater or someone else before you change the time signature and beaming again.
- I'm hearing another note on LH beat 4.5 of m2, m4/m8, and maybe m5/m9 too.
- m12 LH beat 6.5 should be G instead of F.
- m14 LH beat 6 should be Ab instead of F.
- Maybe invert the chords in m15 LH so that G is the bottom note, like in the original?
- The last two eighth notes (beats 6-6.5) of m15 LH should be raised an octave. Also, the last note should be an F, not a D.
- m18 LH beat 4 (D) is two eighth notes instead of one quarter note.
- m22 LH beat 2 (going by 6/4 time, so the third eighth, i.e. the eighth rest before the An) should have a D instead of a rest. Same with beat 3.5 (i.e. the eighth rest right before C). These are both true in m24 as well, except beat 3.5 is a C instead of a D here.
- m23 LH beat 3.5 should be a C instead of a G. Same with m27 (also, why does m23 have octaves while m27 doesn't?).
- It's hard to tell, but I think m26 LH beat 3.5 might be a C instead of an Ab.
- m28 LH beat 2.5 should be an En instead of a rest.
- m29 LH is missing a note on beat 2.
- I would move the E's, D's, and C's down an octave in m30-32 to reflect the actual contour of the bassline in the original.
- A#'s in m34 still need to be changed to Bb.
- You might consider slurring your grace notes to the principal note. Not a requirement, just a common personal preference.
- Dynamics in general: try to make sure they're centered horizontally with the beat, centered vertically between the staves, and not colliding with the barlines.
- You should extend the decrescendo in m11 a little more to the right.
- For m1 RH, the only notes I'm hearing are the top note and then G# on the bottom (no B's or C's), except for the last chord, which has the same three notes you've written.
- Flip m12 LH beats 5-6 up, m14 LH beat 6 up, and m15 LH beats 5-6 up, and move all the staccatos on m12-18 LH beats 5-6 near the noteheads since there's only one layer present on those beats.
- You have staccatos on rests in m22 and m32.
- This is what I hear for the rhythm in m32-33 RH (I mentioned that I hear the whole piece in quarter-note pulses so I beamed it differently to show the beats, but how you hear the meter might differ):


This is already a lot and I don't really feel like checking all the RH notes and the chords right now, so I'm going to leave it here for now and ask that you please go back through the RH with a fine-toothed comb and check all the notes again (given how many discrepancies I found in the bassline alone).

[cashwarrior1]

- I hear the whole piece as having a constant quarter-note pulse (including the parts you wrote with eighth notes grouped in beams of 3), so my recommendation would be to write the intro as 4/4 and the rest of it as 3/4. Other people may hear it differently, though, and it might be better to wait for the opinion of a second updater or someone else before you change the time signature and beaming again.

I'll wait for a second opinion on this before changing anything. I personally felt it in 6 for most of the piece (changing it to 12/8 in those other sections I could go either way with it, personally I think the beaming change is enough but if someone else thinks it should be changed I will).

- m14 LH beat 6 should be Ab instead of F.

So this one I'm not hearing it in the recording. Quite honestly it feels more like a ghost note than something actually voiced, but that Ab sticks out on the piano and it sounds wrong to me. I'd like a second opinion on this one, though I'm not as good as hearing these things as you guys are.

- m23 LH beat 3.5 should be a C instead of a G. Same with m27 (also, why does m23 have octaves while m27 doesn't?).

I didn't do octaves in m27 because I felt it made the left hand too heavy and was covering up the right hand a little too much. Even though it is what's being played by the cello, it's much lighter in the recording.

- For m1 RH, the only notes I'm hearing are the top note and then G# on the bottom (no B's or C's), except for the last chord, which has the same three notes you've written.

I added in those notes because I felt that it'd have more dynamics to the intro to make it stand out. I removed them now though.

- This is what I hear for the rhythm in m32-33 RH (I mentioned that I hear the whole piece in quarter-note pulses so I beamed it differently to show the beats, but how you hear the meter might differ):

That way and the way I had it sound very similar to me, but I did change it. I'm a little worried about playability for that part though, I'm not sure if it would be considered easier to play it as triplets or to have them line up as duplets.

This is already a lot and I don't really feel like checking all the RH notes and the chords right now, so I'm going to leave it here for now and ask that you please go back through the RH with a fine-toothed comb and check all the notes again (given how many discrepancies I found in the bassline alone).

I'm not as good at picking up the small notes as you guys are, so I likely don't notice anything wrong with the melody. However, I did listen through and check it and I know that a lot of the harmonies for the melody would be impossible to play on the piano (or at least extremely difficult at this tempo) so some of the harmonies aren't in the original octave. If I do have harmonies that are wrong (I'm just going by ear, I listened through very slowly and sometimes the notes are hard to pick up for me) then I apologize.

[mastersuperfan]

Nice, this looks much improved. Some more feedback:
- m1 RH beat 2.5 lower note should also be a G# instead of a B.
- In the first three dyads in m5 RH, the lower notes should be Bb-C-C#.
- The tenth in m6 is a big stretch for some players. I would suggest raising the A up an octave. Alternatively, you could also make it an F instead for a fifth.
- In the second-to-last dyad in m6 RH, the lower note should be an E instead of an F.
- This is what I'm hearing for the end of m7 RH (also make sure you remove the staccato on the rest):

- In the first three dyads in m9 RH, the lower notes should be C-C-Bb.
- For m11 RH, I think that doubling the D at the bottom of the chord is unnecessary and makes it sound too thick; I'd omit the low D's entirely. Additionally, the third note (the eighth note) should also have an E under it.
- The notation for the layers in m11 RH is kind of weird. Layer 1 should definitely be flipped down for the first half of the measure. Here's the best way to notate it that I can think of at the moment:

- In the first half of m13 LH, I hear Eb in the dyads instead of C.
- I'm not sure I hear the B in the LH in the chord on beat 4 of m15, and I think it might be a bit too dissonant for this context. You might consider changing it to a D (right above middle C) instead.
- You could add G and A, respectively, under the last two eighth notes in m16 to replicate the introduction of the high strings in the original.
- You might consider adding an E to the RH chord on beat 1 of m17 to for even more emphasis.
- For the first two chords in m17, I would suggest removing the staccatos from the LH (i.e. just make them accents) and write them as held dotted quarters without rests. I think that holding the LH there better helps accentuate the sustained feel from the original. I would also suggest writing LH beat 4 as a quarter note just to make it look cleaner, even if you keep the staccato on that one.
- Also, the first two chords in m17 RH should be flipped downward.
- Last three quarter rests in the final measure should be condensed into a dotted half rest.

I am very tired and will continue checking the rest tomorrow.

[cashwarrior1]

- In the first three dyads in m9 RH, the lower notes should be C-C-Bb.

I'll be honest, I didn't even realize there was another harmony there. I was trying to notate the bottom counter melody.

- Also, the first two chords in m17 RH should be flipped downward.

So I'm not quite sure what you mean by flipped downward, but I rewrote the measure after listening to the original a few times.


I also went through and added a few slurs. I don't really know when you're supposed to add slurs in notation. I had thought it was meant to show phrases, but I've been told its to indicate legato. I just want to know if this one would benefit from having them.

[cashwarrior1]

I've made some formatting tweaks based off the formatting guidelines. Also, bump

[mastersuperfan]

Change the formatting back. The margins are way too big now and there's a lot more empty space than there should be.

In the meantime:
- In m7, the subito p should be above the staff since it only applies to the RH.
- You still need to manually move the staccatos to the noteheads on LH beats 5-6 of m12-16 and m18. Also for the last three eighth notes in m17 RH.
- m14 LH beat 4 should have an Ab instead of an An (F minor chord).
- On m15 LH beat 4, I don't hear a G in the chord, but I do hear a B. I would replace the G with a B.
- m17 beats 4-5 look a little weird in the RH. I would suggest turning the Layer 1 dyad (D-G) from a dotted quarter to a quarter, and then put an eighth rest on beat 5 to account for both layers.
- m18 LH beat 4 should have an F# in the chord instead of a G.
- I would add two-note slurs starting on the first and seventh eighth notes in m20 RH.
- The F's in the m20 LH chords should be changed to D's.
- You may or may not consider inverting the m19-20 LH chords up so that the G is on bottom instead of on top. It might sound less muddy that way. Up to you.
- For the last eighth note dyad in m20 RH, I hear Db as the lower note instead of Dn.
- In the second half of m22 RH, the chord should be Dn-Fn-Ab, instead of Cn-Eb-Ab.
- On beat 6.5 of m21 RH, there's an Eb under the C. On beat 6.5 of m22 RH, there's a D under the Bb. On beat 6.5 of m23 RH, there's a G under the F. On beat 6.5 of m24 RH, there's an Fn under the Eb.
- m25 RH beat 1 should have En instead of Eb as the lower note.
- Put a courtesy flat on the Ab on m26 RH beat 1 (both in the upper octave on beat 1 and the lower octave on beat 1.5.)
- For m26 RH beats 4-6, the lower notes should be Ab-Ab-Ab-Bb instead of Db-Db-Db-Eb.
- m26 LH beat 3.5 should be an Eb instead of a C.
- Why are LH beats 4-6 different for m22, m23-24, and m26? They all sound the same to me. I would write them all the way you wrote beats 4-6 of m26 (i.e. alternating C octaves with G single notes).
- In m27 RH, I would change the lower note on the second dyad from an Ab to a G, and the lower note on the sixth dyad from a Db to a C.
- I hear m27 RH beat 4.5 as a C eighth note tied to a C half note (i.e. a single held note) instead of two 16ths + one half.
- You should also hide the Layer 2 rests in m27 RH for beats 1-3 and flip Layer 1 down.
- I would also suggest adding staccatos to the last five Layer 2 eighth notes in m27 RH, as well as adding two-note slurs onto beat 1 and Layer 2 beat 4.
- All of these changes considered, m27 should end up looking like this:

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- The last eighth note (beat 6.5) in m28 LH should be another D octave instead of an An.
- I would also suggesting adding staccatos and two-note slurs to the RH in m28 the same way I suggested in m27:

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- In m29, move the forte marking right slightly so that it's center-aligned with the noteheads on beat 1.
- On m29 RH beat 4, I don't hear a C#.
- Any particular reason why the E on m29 LH beat 4 isn't doubled an octave up like on beats 2.5 and 5.5?
- Here's what I'm hearing for the lower notes in the RH in m30/31:

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^ See: m30 beats 2-2.5, 5.5-6.5, m31 beat 1. That said, I think it's also fine to leave m30 beat 5.5 as an F# instead of a D if you want. (I agree with the rest of m31 RH not shown)
- On beat 5.5 of m31, I would write the D# (in both the LH and the RH) as an Eb since it's a descending chromatic scale. (Technically this means that beat 4.5 should also be an Fn instead of an E#, but that would result in an Fn-F# dyad in the RH, which... would get ugly, so let's just leave it as E#.)
- On m32 RH beat 3, the first two sixteenth notes in Layer 2 should be C#-C# instead of B-C#.
- I would put two-note slurs on m33 RH beats 1 and 4. I would also put staccatos on the last two eighth note dyads in m33 RH (staccatos on both Layer 1 and Layer 2).
- m34 RH beat 1: the E# should be written as an Fn.
- In m30-33, I would strongly advise against beaming eighth notes in groups of 3 (particularly when both Layer 2 and the LH are grouped per beat) because it just looks very visually confusing and difficult to read. It's far simpler to keep everything beamed within quarter-note beats.

Whole sheet considerations:
- You could put slurs connecting your grace notes to the principal notes if you want.
- I also think you have dynamic changes in places that don't really need them. Specifically: I think m8-18 should just stay as a consistent mezzo forte without all of the crescendos/decrescendos and dynamic changes. I also think m21 should be forte instead of ff, in which case m29 can just be mf, and then you don't need a decrescendo into m30 (I don't hear a dynamic change from m29 to m30).
(While you're at it, move the dynamic marking in m21 up and slightly to the right so that it's evenly spaced between the LH and RH notes and centered with the noteheads.)

[cashwarrior1]

- You still need to manually move the staccatos to the noteheads on LH beats 5-6 of m12-16 and m18. Also for the last three eighth notes in m17 RH.

Should this be done on the m. 20 layer 2 RH notes as well or is it correct?

- Why are LH beats 4-6 different for m22, m23-24, and m26? They all sound the same to me. I would write them all the way you wrote beats 4-6 of m26 (i.e. alternating C octaves with G single notes).

m22 RH originally played the top notes so I didn't include them (I did now). I chose not to include the A octaves in left hand of m26 so that it would be more out of the way of the melody (I feel less driving energy on that part too). I can add those octaves if it's preferred though.

- I hear m27 RH beat 4.5 as a C eighth note tied to a C half note (i.e. a single held note) instead of two 16ths + one half.

I'm hearing a re-articulation. I'd like another opinion on this one.

- On m29 RH beat 4, I don't hear a C#.
- Any particular reason why the E on m29 LH beat 4 isn't doubled an octave up like on beats 2.5 and 5.5?

It wasn't doubled up because I didn't want the left hand in the way. Though, since there isn't a C# I made it an octave.

- Here's what I'm hearing for the lower notes in the RH in m30/31:

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I'm hearing an En on 2.5, it feels like that's the general motion of the line, too.

- I also think you have dynamic changes in places that don't really need them. Specifically: I think m8-18 should just stay as a consistent mezzo forte without all of the crescendos/decrescendos and dynamic changes.

There aren't dynamic changes in the original there, but I think for a piano performance the dynamics would make more sense there. I would like to keep those ones the same.

[mastersuperfan]

Nice, this one's nearly there. A few last things:
- For m11, I would suggest flipping beat 5 layer 2 down and manually flipping the slur back up. I would also move the beat 4 layer 2 rest up a few notches. Something like this:

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- I'd also move the m32 RH Layer 2 beat 1 rest a little higher, somewhere around here:

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- For m12-16 LH, the staccatos on beat 3.5 should be put back in their default positions (delete and re-add) because the top layer is still in play. It's only when there's only one layer left on beats 5+6 that the staccatos need to be manually moved.
- Move the staccatos above the noteheads in m18 LH too. I think m20 RH is fine because the layer 1 note is held for the entire measure, but another updater can double-check.
- For m17, it seems like it would make more sense to put the mf directly on beat 3 instead of on beat 3.5.
- I would suggest extending your crescendos/decrescendos a little further so that they go all the way through the final note (Finale stops them at the left edge of the final note when it should go a little farther through), except for m11 and m31 where they're already extended.
- For m19, I would start the decrescendo on the onset of a note, not in between the first and second notes.
- https

Aaaaaand that's it. Nice, this one sounds great. Despite those few things above, I'll (finally) approve this so that another updater can get the ball rolling on the second check. Things for the second updater to double-check:
- Staccato positioning in m20 okay?

- I hear m27 RH beat 4.5 as a C eighth note tied to a C half note (i.e. a single held note) instead of two 16ths + one half.

- m30 RH beat 2.5 lower note, En or F#?
- m31 second half, spelling for chromatic descent?

[cashwarrior1]

Okay, I've updated it. Also, I just remembered that there's an 8bit version of this theme as well. Although, the arrangement is quite different, it might help make the notes at m30 clear. Though, it's probably best to use for comparison since it doesn't have the same chromatic decent the original has and other parts of the song have been changed.

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[mastersuperfan]

Looks good!

Things for the second updater to double-check:
- Staccato positioning in m20 okay?
- I hear m27 RH beat 4.5 as a C eighth note tied to a C half note (i.e. a single held note) instead of two 16ths + one half.
- m30 RH beat 2.5 lower note, En or F#?
- m31 second half, spelling for chromatic descent?