[GCN] Super Mario Sunshine - "Event & Goal" by E. Gadd Industries

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Super Mario
Game: Super Mario Sunshine
Console: Nintendo GameCube
Title: Event & Goal
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: E. Gadd Industries

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[E. Gadd Industries]

I'm back!

32. Event
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0cdk6kwqers51g/32.%20Event.mp3?dl=1
33. Goal!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xc1naw9s7457vyh/33.%20Goal.mp3?dl=1

These are the audio files (big shoutout to TZP for ripping these!).

Uhhhhh yeah, this is the theme that plays when you surf on Bloopers, among other things. I threw the Goal theme in at the end because I felt it fit really well there (and that's the only time you hear the theme).

Yey.

[joeberryosponge]

Looks good! I have a few notation things.

• You are hiding beat 3 in a couple measures such as measure 4 and 11. You should have the quarter note as tied eighth notes.
• I don't think the 8vb's are necessary. F is not hard to read with ledger lines. You have other F's throughout the piece with ledger lines.
• Is there a reason you have the key change in the second measure? I think it would look cleaner to start out in the key and have accidentals in the first measure.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Fix'd! Good catch on those beaming errors, I can't believe I overlooked them RIP

Thanks for the feedback!

[Libera]

Event is a ... strange piece to say the least.  I hear you've been trying to arrange the Super Mario Sunshine, so I'm glad I can help you out with that.  Arranging an entire OST is a noble cause.

Not checking notes at the moment because my keyboard stand broke and now my keyboard is just lying on the floor why, but just some things to say from looking at the sheet.

Aesthetics:
-We've got a lot of collisions at the moment.  Most of them are glissandos colliding with accidentals (in fact, perhaps all of them.)
-It'd probably be a good idea to indent Goal!  It'll help it to stand out as its own piece but also will alleviate the over-stretching of those bars.
-You should probably hide the key signature change at the end of Event.

Playability:
-The glissandos:
  1) I'm not really sure how you're meant to perform bar 1 as it is written at the moment.  Hit the first glissando, then separately glissando (from the A?) to the E and then hit the second chord?  It's certainly not obvious what your intention is.
  2) For all the small left hand glissandos in bars 41-53, these are very tricky to perform accurately.  Glissandos are generally performed coming towards the body so these small glissandos in the low range moving away from the body are very demanding.  Especially when you are specifying the end note of each glissando.  I would seriously consider removing these from the sheet.
-Bars 18-21 (and every section afterwards that looks like it) are quite difficult to play.  Removing the repeated bottom note (i.e. just Bb D Bb D etc.) would sound very similar and be much easier to play.

Other:
-We have staccatos on the bass line but none currently in the right hand.  I think some of the crotchets in the right hand could do with them (e.g. the first note in bar 6).  It's something to consider anyway.
-You don't need two layers in bar 13.  I think you should also take bars 8-9 down to one layer as well.  The only thing you're extra layer is giving you there is an extension of the Eb and Bb in bar 9 beat 1 by a quaver, but when you're performing that you'd need to cut it short anyway.

I think that's it for now; I'll give this another look after you've addressed these comments.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Well, the NSM Panel isn't working for me so ima put the links to the updated files here:

[ZIP of all 4 files]
[MID]
[MUS]
[PDF]
[MUSX]

Sorry for the inconvenience, I'll update the OP when I can (provided NSM Panel is cooperative at those points)

Anyway, (my comments in bold)

Event is a ... strange piece to say the least.  I hear you've been trying to arrange the Super Mario Sunshine, so I'm glad I can help you out with that.  Arranging an entire OST is a noble cause.

I'm inclined to agree, but it plays when you're navigating an obstacle course (among other things) while surfing on a blooper in the sewers. Strange piece = strange occasion And thanks! Arranging the SMS OST was my goal from day 1 of joining the forums, so I'm getting more excited the closer I come to completion.

Aesthetics:
-We've got a lot of collisions at the moment.  Most of them are glissandos colliding with accidentals (in fact, perhaps all of them.) Fixed these, I had to move the accidentals in m1 a little bit to fix this, but nothing collides now (I think).
-It'd probably be a good idea to indent Goal!  It'll help it to stand out as its own piece but also will alleviate the over-stretching of those bars. Gotcha, fixed!
-You should probably hide the key signature change at the end of Event. Taken care of.

Playability:
-The glissandos:
  1) I'm not really sure how you're meant to perform bar 1 as it is written at the moment.  Hit the first glissando, then separately glissando (from the A?) to the E and then hit the second chord?  It's certainly not obvious what your intention is. As per Static's suggestion, I added a second layer in an attempt at showing my intentions there.
  2) For all the small left hand glissandos in bars 41-53, these are very tricky to perform accurately.  Glissandos are generally performed coming towards the body so these small glissandos in the low range moving away from the body are very demanding.  Especially when you are specifying the end note of each glissando.  I would seriously consider removing these from the sheet. I removed all except the first one because that one is the clearest, and I did take out the ending note for that one to ease things more for the performer.
-Bars 18-21 (and every section afterwards that looks like it) are quite difficult to play.  Removing the repeated bottom note (i.e. just Bb D Bb D etc.) would sound very similar and be much easier to play. Fixed.

Other:
-We have staccatos on the bass line but none currently in the right hand.  I think some of the crotchets in the right hand could do with them (e.g. the first note in bar 6).  It's something to consider anyway. I believe I added them as appropriate. Going through this, I actually found a dyad in m51, beat 4 that I'd missed up until now, so I added that in.
-You don't need two layers in bar 13.  I think you should also take bars 8-9 down to one layer as well.  The only thing you're extra layer is giving you there is an extension of the Eb and Bb in bar 9 beat 1 by a quaver, but when you're performing that you'd need to cut it short anyway. Fixed. I also took out the second layer in m4, as it appeared to have a similar setup to m8-9, and it cleaned up nicely.

I think that's it for now; I'll give this another look after you've addressed these comments.

Thank you for reviewing this!

[Libera]

As the panel was being funny I've uploaded those files for you. 

The edits look good, nice work.  Any further reviewing is probably going to have to wait until I get a new keyboard stand unfortunately, but that shouldn't be too far off.

[Libera]

Sorry this took so long!

-Bar 42, 47, 51 the left hand the final C should be a Bb (matches the contour of the previous line.)  The one in 55 is a C though.
-In bar 47 there's a similar two quavers on the second beat as in bar 44 (Bb F).
-In bars 50-55 I understand where you're coming from in including some of the backing chords when you can but I feel like they're breaking up the melodic line as they're currently written.  I'd suggest removing them just to make the melody come through properly. 
-In bar 55 I'm hearing the lower voice (right hand) go down to a Bb on beat 3 rather than up to an Eb.
-In bar 53 I'm hearing the top voice (right hand) go back to a G rather than down to an Eb on beat 3.
-Where you have it written in Bb major should probably be written in F.  I'd also consider removing the key signature changes since they only last for four bars.
-This is what I can hear for the melody in bar 51:

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-In bar 19 and bar 23 (and by extension bar 35 and bar 39) I'd change the Db and Dn to C# and C## respectively since these are aug chords.
-With regards to the piece in general, should we call the sheet "Event & Goal" and give both of them subtitles in the piece?  I'm thinking something like the formatting that Levi used in this.
-I'm not hearing the G in the first beat of bar 43.
-I'm not hearing the Ens in bar 44 or 46.  In bar 46 I think the A drops to an F on the final beat as well.
-You're missing a quaver C at in the right hand at the end of bar 27.
-The lower voice (right hand) in bar 4 goes G En F at the start rather than G F F.
-Perhaps I'm going crazy, but I'm not hearing the lower voice in bar 1.
-After the first off beat chord in bar 5 I'm hearing them as F chords rather than 7ths.
-Bar 10-11 I'm hearing those G Eb dyads as Bb G.
-Would you mind taking another look at the chords in 13 to 17 for me?  I think we're having some consistency/accuracy issues here.

As always, ask if you want some help/clarification with any of this.

[E. Gadd Industries]

Sorry this took so long!

It's all good! I'm just now getting around to this sooooo...
Anyhoo, I had a few questions, but everything else has been addressed (I'm only updating the musx until everything here has been looked at, however)
EDIT: This was ambiguous upon review, so I'm clarifying: The MUSX ONLY has been updated now with every change except the things below.

-In bars 50-55 I understand where you're coming from in including some of the backing chords when you can but I feel like they're breaking up the melodic line as they're currently written.  I'd suggest removing them just to make the melody come through properly. Could you please elaborate? I'm confused by what you're asking here.
-In bar 55 I'm hearing the lower voice (right hand) go down to a Bb on beat 3 rather than up to an Eb. Do you mean m56 by chance? I'm not seeing any Eb notes in m55 at all in RH.
-Where you have it written in Bb major should probably be written in F.  I'd also consider removing the key signature changes since they only last for four bars. Do you think I should keep the double barlines at each place where the key change occurs to signify a change in the piece?
-With regards to the piece in general, should we call the sheet "Event & Goal" and give both of them subtitles in the piece?  I'm thinking something like the formatting that Levi used in this. Befre I change anything here, should I keep the current indentation for the "Goal" system, or bring it back to the normal indentation? Also, would the tempo marking just be <tempo> and then "Goal!" would be its own object on the sheet?
-Perhaps I'm going crazy, but I'm not hearing the lower voice in bar 1. I fixed this, but now something doesn't seem right about the ending chord, although I can't quite identify what that would be.
-After the first off beat chord in bar 5 I'm hearing them as F chords rather than 7ths. I definitely hear this for some of them, but I'm also still hearing 7ths on the chords I left alone. I'm probably crazy (and those chords are hard to pick up on, even at really low speeds), but I just want to verify that all except the first offbeat chord are F and not 7ths. Is this correct?
-Would you mind taking another look at the chords in 13 to 17 for me?  I think we're having some consistency/accuracy issues here. What are you meaning by consistency issues? I'm sure there's an error or three somewhere, but I'm not sure I get what type. Are you saying that some of the chords are the same in the original and not portrayed as such in the sheet or vice versa?

As always, ask if you want some help/clarification with any of this Thanks again!

[Libera]

Could you please elaborate? I'm confused by what you're asking here.

Sure.  So your right hand in this section is a mixture of the chords in the background and the melody.  I'm suggesting that to better preserve the contour of the melody, I would cut all of the backing chords that you have included.  For example:

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I've highlighted the backing chords in red.  Notice that in bar 51 you have written it how I'm suggesting you to do it (you haven't included the backing chords on beats 1 and 4 there.)

Do you mean m56 by chance? I'm not seeing any Eb notes in m55 at all in RH.

Oops yes you're right I meant bar 56.  My mistake.

Do you think I should keep the double barlines at each place where the key change occurs to signify a change in the piece?

I don't think double barlines are necessary any more since we don't have the key changes.  Also when you removed those key changes all of the accidentals have got messed up.  I still think those sections should be written exactly as they were before, just with accidentals instead of key signatures.  Here's a picture of bar 38-39 to use as an example:

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Before I change anything here, should I keep the current indentation for the "Goal" system, or bring it back to the normal indentation? Also, would the tempo marking just be <tempo> and then "Goal!" would be its own object on the sheet?

I'd keep the indentation for "Goal!", I think it helps to separate it out and also means that the bars are less stretched.  And yes I'd suggest putting the titles separately to the tempo marking, similarly to the sheet I linked.

I fixed this, but now something doesn't seem right about the ending chord, although I can't quite identify what that would be.

Ahhh oops sorry I meant bar 2.  I guess I was thinking of bar 1 as a pickup so I said the wrong thing.  That lower voice in bar 1 is definitely there, so removing that note will explain why that chord sounds weird.

I definitely hear this for some of them, but I'm also still hearing 7ths on the chords I left alone. I'm probably crazy (and those chords are hard to pick up on, even at really low speeds), but I just want to verify that all except the first offbeat chord are F and not 7ths. Is this correct?

You are correct, it does go back up to an Eb on that last chord.  My mistake.

What are you meaning by consistency issues? I'm sure there's an error or three somewhere, but I'm not sure I get what type. Are you saying that some of the chords are the same in the original and not portrayed as such in the sheet or vice versa?

Sorry for not being clear, what I meant is, as you say, some of the chords sound the same in the original but are written differently here.


Hope that clears things up, if it doesn't feel free to ask again!

Edit:  While I'm here, I just realised that the simile in bar 5 is mispositioned, so fix that. :P

[E. Gadd Industries]

So I didn't get the chance to go through everything, but I went ahead and updated with the changes I did make. As with last time, I only updated the MUSX, and everything should be fixed with the exception of the following:

I'd keep the indentation for "Goal!", I think it helps to separate it out and also means that the bars are less stretched.  And yes I'd suggest putting the titles separately to the tempo marking, similarly to the sheet I linked.

Sorry for not being clear, what I meant is, as you say, some of the chords sound the same in the original but are written differently here.

The simile thing is just an issue with my version of Finale. I don't think I can correct it myself because it looks normal on my version when it's somewhere it doesn't need to be for everyone else.

(This post is mainly for myself so I know what has and hasn't been addressed for when I get back to finish things)

[The Deku Trombonist]

Some LH notes for Event:

-Bar 41, beat 4 should be a D#
-Bar 42, beat 4 should be a C
-Bar 43, beat 4 should be a Bb
-Bar 55, beat 4 should be a Bb

The rest of the LH sounds about right

[The Deku Trombonist]

Sorry about the wait but I went through the rest of it as asked! I did most of it a few days ago so apologies if I've forgotten to mention some things that I messed with. I'll just link the file because I don't really have the time to do heaps of pictures and stuff (well, I do, but it would take away from topseekritproject).

Link to file = https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrvp0zzp4x4yi1x/32-33.%20Event%20%26%20Goal.musx?dl=1

Stuff that I changed:
- Respaced the systems on each page.
- Added grace note to 1st note in measure 3
- Removed chords in measure 5. I used to say this lots back when I gave feedback more often, but I think ideally an arrangement should be able stand on its own without needing the original track to try and make sense of it. I think this is one of those times when the chords get in the way of that. If you listen to the arrangement in isolation it sounds like those chords sound like a rowdy interjection of sorts, which of course isn't what it sounds like in the original track (it's just part of the accompaniment which keeps ticking along). So with that in mind, I think it's more important to preserve the 'vibe' rather than cramming in extra parts wherever there is space.
- Added missing harmonies in measure 9. I don't mind having the chords in this measure, the chromatic ascending thing sounds pretty cool.
- Added missing harmonies in measure 8. I don't know if you want to include the missing ones from measure 7 or if you think that would make it too hard for what you're aiming for but I thought it needed them in measure 8.
- Fixed some notes in measure 10.
- There was a C# on top of the RH chord at the end of measure 14 which I removed. It's from a different voice and I wasn't convinced that it worked. However if you really want it, you can of course add it back in.
- Added grace note to start of measure 27
- Fixed lower voice in RH of measure 32
- I don't think that tying the note in measure 33 over that extra 8th note into beat 3 really adds anything
- I know this was done for playback reasons, but visually, the LH of measure 41 didn't have 4 beats in it because beat 4 was just a stray 8th note.
- Made some changes in measure 42-49. Some were accuracy things, other ones were to make it sit a little better. Take a look and see what you think.
- Measure 50 to the end only has 2 voices in the 'melody.' I know they coincide with the background chords sometimes but I like polyphony. It's just got a different sound when you have two distinguishable voices. Sometimes it's easy to fall into the habit of just filling things out whenever you can when doing piano sheets.

Stuff that I didn't change:
- I think measure 1 needs something different. Maybe simultaneous glissandi in opposite directions? (RH from low to high, LH from high to low landing on the F at the start of measure 2)
- I don't know if I'd include those two chords at the end of measure 13 in the RH. I was a bit split on those so I left them.
- Is measure 29 easier to read as a dotted quarter tied to an eigth rather than what it is now? I don't know what is the technically correct thing to do here.
- And in Goal!, those two repeated 16ths should be replaced with an 8th. I don't know any amateur who can actually hammer out repeated chords that fast. Or who would want to, it's not exactly comfortable.

[E. Gadd Industries]

I updated the files.

A few notes:
-Because this won't be accepted yet until I make one more fix, there are quarter rests with mysterious staccato markings on them? I'll take care of that once I finalize...

- I think measure 1 needs something different. Maybe simultaneous glissandi in opposite directions? (RH from low to high, LH from high to low landing on the F at the start of measure 2)

This. I relistened and I agree that something like that would be good to add, but what note would the LH begin on? And what would the RH begin/end on?

Thank you for doing this!!

Another question:
All of your note fixes in your previous comment were fixed in your file with the exception of m55. Is there a reason why? Or do I need to still fix that?

With regard to the stuff you didn't change:
-I decided to get rid of the m13 chords because they were inaccurate as they were anyway
-After referencing a beaming picture Bespinben posted somewhere at some point, it is accurate to make it a dotted quarter tied to the eighth in m29.
-I fixed the Goal 16th chords, because I agree, that wouldn't be easy.
I think that's everything I need to address for now. Thanks again, to both of you!

EDIT: RIP it completely slipped my mind that I was dealing with a different file here, so Libera's suggested changes that I didn't get to (at this point, just the thing with separating Event and Goal and the like) weren't conserved. I'll also fix that when the questions I asked are answered.

[The Deku Trombonist]

-Because this won't be accepted yet until I make one more fix, there are quarter rests with mysterious staccato markings on them?

Wow that's odd. And now that I've just opened the .musx file from the OP, all of the articulations are misplaced. Completely different to when I open up the file that I sent. That's weird. Which version of Finale are you using?

Another question:
All of your note fixes in your previous comment were fixed in your file with the exception of m55. Is there a reason why? Or do I need to still fix that?

Yeah that needs fixing. That was a whoops on my part, I must've missed it.