TWG CVIII: Dude-Man and the Masters of NinSheetMusic

[antherid]

toby voting mikey from first post today is consistent with seering mikey red. i guess my one sticking point would be that toby has a post suggesting seer could claim if they have a red peek when, you know, he's the seer with a red peek that he's pushing and waited to claim anyway. his posting today reads like his goal was to push into mikey and try to get him lynched without having to claim though, given that he made a few posts wanting input from others on this 1v1

mikey threw the word "guardian" into a couple posts but if he's the guardian, who the hell was the nk lol (just speaking hypothetically here, no need to actually answer). i have an idea about it but if mikey's real / toby's fake then i don't see toby making a kill on this person often

this might be too far out but neither has talked to me when i thought wolf-toby might to try to pocket me

i think i'm favoring toby's side because aorn it seems like the better claim, and i'm left wondering what about claiming guardian "before I'm even considered suspicious to any great degree" would be a good plan

[mikey]

the plan isn't complete yet, but given I already got a wolf to out themself it's pretty swell ^3

[Toby]

My main plan was looking to get mikey lynched without having to claim. But also looking for potential partners to mikey without throwing out he is a confirmed red

[mikey]

I'm always a "confirmed red" on day 1, you were just banking on NSM meta to get me killed
my plan threw you for a loop because suddenly you can't get a free mislynch out of me so

[Nana1Popo2]

Tbh, sorry mikey, but you're not putting up much of a fight other than variations on "no im not."

I would continually question everyone and further back up myself if I was in the position. Just seems like you're letting it happen because you can't come up with a better counter argument? Toby is at least giving a better defense; this is in my opinion.

If this game ends up with both Toby and mikey being the wolves and they concocted this scheme to oust one so the other could prevail with everyone's trust (despite what I read about bussing; if that's what it was called), thennnnn damn we're getting hit by two smooth criminals.

[mikey]

Tbh, sorry mikey, but you're not putting up much of a fight other than variations on "no im not."

I would continually question everyone and further back up myself if I was in the position. Just seems like you're letting it happen because you can't come up with a better counter argument? Toby is at least giving a better defense; this is in my opinion.

If this game ends up with both Toby and mikey being the wolves and they concocted this scheme to oust one so the other could prevail with everyone's trust (despite what I read about bussing; if that's what it was called), thennnnn damn we're getting hit by two smooth criminals.

the problem is I have the ability to prove my claim by having the person I guarded claim

toby has no such thing

I don't want to reveal who I guarded because then we would lose any potential advantage of having an alliance between the real seer and a confirmed town

[Toby]

Claiming who you 'guarded' does not confirm anything real guardian or not

Go home give up bye you're talking so much nonsense

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

Logs because I no longer trust Mikey

ThatHiddenCharacter added NocturneOfShadow to the group.Yesterday at 10:54 PM
NocturneOfShadow - Yesterday at 10:54 PM
hiya
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 10:54 PM
Ok, so
Right now
You are basically confirmed human to me
Since a nokill would make no sense
NocturneOfShadow - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
oh
I mean
there's a guardian
that's probably what happened
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
Exactly
That's what I'm saying
I'm Olinar-At-Arms
I chose to guard tou
Since you're usually one of the first to be wolfed when you aren't one
NocturneOfShadow - Yesterday at 10:56 PM
ah
sounds good, I'm in the middle of a league of legends game
or rather just starting
I'll get back to you when I'm done
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 10:56 PM
Alright
July 3, 2018
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:18 AM
ok I'm done
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:19 AM
Good timing, I was about to go to sleep
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:21 AM
so I've been thinking
it sucks because there's no way to "confirm" me publicly
outside of me claiming
er I mean
I can claim to the thread but there's no way to verify it
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:22 AM
What would you claim?
I'm the power role
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:22 AM
"guardian guarded me last night"
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:22 AM
Oh yeah
Yeah, the only way to verify that would be for me to claim
Which would be dumb
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:23 AM
yeah
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:23 AM
Since I can't guard myself in this game
Not to mention, people could see that as a wolf team ploy anyway
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:24 AM
that's not super likely
anyway, there's not much benefit to us trying to make plays
so for now we can just sit on this
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:25 AM
Yeah
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:25 AM
I'm probably going to die tomorrow night then, since you can't double guard
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:25 AM
Yeah
But, maybe I'll get lucky and successfully guard someone else before game over
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:25 AM
it sucks that there's no way to verify this to the thread
because then the seer could claim too and we could unite the PRs
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:26 AM
Exactly
What I'm hoping is the wolves make a mistake and don't attempt to wolf you next night
They might go for Toby if he isn't one. But they'll probably go for you since I don't think there are any novices in this game except for me
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:27 AM
you're not a novice anymore :stuck_out_tongue:
I graduated you, remember?
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:27 AM
No
I have poor memory
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:27 AM
you're one step above novice now
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:27 AM
Mediocre
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:28 AM
sure
I think n1p2 might be new
he's played werewolf a lot but I don't think he's played forum twg
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:29 AM
I wonder why he isn't in the server. He's on the NSM one, maybe he doesn't know about the TWG one.
Luckily, I've matured enough in TWG to know that if it comes down to you being lynched or me claiming, you getting lynched would be the better option. Back in my earlier games, I would've thought the opposite.
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:32 AM
yep
just let me get lynched, because it's better than losing a PR
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:33 AM
Yup
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:33 AM
but the thing is, in an 8 player game, 2 votes is a lot
so if we vote for the same person we can probably keep me alive through day 1 at least
and then the meme dream is over and I'm not gonna get mislynched :stuck_out_tongue:
if the wolves make the correct play I'm dying n2 though, so not much difference there
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:34 AM
Well, Toby's suspicious of you, but he also brought up a really good plan of action, so I don't think he's a wolf throwing shade at you (unrelated to what you just said)
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:34 AM
yeah that's a problem
I legitimately don't know how to answer him because
every game he does this
and I answer awfully
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:35 AM
I'm gonna be honest, you wanting to PR hunt struck me as wolfy before I guarded you
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:35 AM
lol
2 things about that
A), publicly PR hunting is wolfy
B), humans should technically be PR hunting too
just not publicly
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:36 AM
Yes, but you mentioning it publicly was what made it seem wolfy
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:36 AM
PR hunting isn't really a meta here on NSM
like, the wolf shaman can choose to be a master wolf this game
so the seer doesn't auto win
which means there's not going to be pressure on the wolves to PR hunt
yes it's optimal to hit the guardian or the seer over a vanilla human but it's not by a wide margin
make sense?
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:37 AM
Yeah
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:37 AM
in normal games with a seer and no master wolf, the seer just auto wins
because they find all the red checks if they stay alive
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:38 AM
True
Well, hopefully the seer used their ability last night
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:38 AM
if I had been PR hunting then I could tell you "I think so and so is the seer"
and if I could provide reasoning for it then it would give you a reasonable guardian target
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:39 AM
Yup
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:39 AM
the only thing I really noticed last night
was toby saying "lol when will I roll wolf"
which seems like he's begging to get seered
which, you know, only makes sense if he's the guardian or the master wolf
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:40 AM
And he can't be guardian because I am
And
It would make sense for him to be master wolf until there are less people
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:41 AM
exactly
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:41 AM
Cause then it'd be more likely for him to find PR
I am relieved that Oli was just joke voting, but I've never heard of the lower case for jokes thing
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:42 AM
yeah never heard of that
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:44 AM
I'm not saying that it wasn't a master wolf play, but I can kinda get behind the when will I roll wolf thing. Honestly, I'm kinda getting peeved that I haven't been a wolf since the one game I was.
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:44 AM
it's toby we're talking about though
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:44 AM
Yeah, he's got Toby things going around in his head
Okay, it's getting way too late here, and I need sleep. If there's anything left to discuss, it can wait until tomorrow.
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:46 AM
sounds good
I should probably get to bed too lol
I'm probably gonna have an all-nighter this friday
so I need to get sleep beforehand
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:47 AM
It's almost 1 here. I'm drained
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:47 AM
fwiw I think toby is wolfing here
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:47 AM
Fwiw?
I don't lingo
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:47 AM
for what it's worth
I'm also sketch of olimar
if there was a no kill (which, let's be honest, unlikely at this point because occam's razor)
it would be him
I do think his tell is legit though
so if wolves submitted a kill, he's human
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:48 AM
Well, tomorrow night, I'll guard Toby. If he isn't a wolf, he's the second most likely to be wolfed next to you. And I can't think of anyone else who would probably be wolfed n2.
Why would he be human if wolves submitted a kill?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:50 AM
because he assumed no kill
that's what I mean by I think it's legit
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:50 AM
True
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:50 AM
he definitely thought there was a no kill, so either he's a wolf and submitted a no kill, or he's human and forgot there was a guardian
but I'm willing to bet those are the only two options
alright good night
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:51 AM
G'night
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:14 AM
Oh wait
What if I claimed guardian
I just thought of this
I claim guardian, have seer claim to me, wait for counterclaims, eat the nightkill
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:16 AM
Actually, yeah. But what if the seer thinks you're a wolf fishing for the seer?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:16 AM
There will be no guardian counter
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:16 AM
Fair enough
Sounds like a good plan then
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:16 AM
Gotta just go through all the logistics first
It could end up badly if a wolf claims seer
And the actual seer is like n1p2 or awe yea
And they're just inactive
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:18 AM
And, realistically, the wolf could've gone shaman and have seering proof
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:18 AM
In the event of a counter claim
I could not reveal you
And have both players seer you or something
Actually a c.c. is really tough to solve
I'll have to sleep on it
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:19 AM
Alright
You could have them seer each other
No
They'd both claim seering red
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:24 AM
Yep
And they could both actually seer you
That's the problem
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:25 AM
Yeah
Well, let's think about it like this
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:25 AM
If you can think of a solution to the counter
Other than"trade wolf for seer"
Then I think I'm all for fake claiming
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:26 AM
If you claim and there's no counter, everything's good. If you claim and there's a counter, don't tell either about me or each other. We'll lose you, but we were probably going to anyway, so it's worth the risk.
Since worst case scenario, everything happens as it was probably going to anyway
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:27 AM
If only you could guard twice in a row T.T
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:27 AM
Yeah
I think the fake claim play is worth it
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:31 AM
Hang on
It's coming to me
Okay so like
Hmm
If there's a counter
I tell one of the seers
That you are the guardian
And the other one I tell that I'm the guardian and guarded you
We learn which one is legit
Based on who dies
Worst case we trade guardian for a wolf
Best case vanilla for wolf
Both instances better than trading seer for wolf
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:35 AM
Alright, I don't like the idea of dying, but I can respect taking one for the team
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:35 AM
It's only a 50% chance
And like it's still totally possible wolves won't risk counter claiming
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:36 AM
I'm going to keep checking my phone each time I get a message and it's 1:30 am here and it's so got I'm already having trouble sleeping, so please, can this wait til tomorrow?
So hot
Not got
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:36 AM
Oh my gosh umm so sorry
I just got excited
Cause I had as idea
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 1:37 AM
It's fine
But I need sleep
I have a big day tomorrow
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 1:38 AM
Ok good night
I will maybe go bother BDS lol
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 5:22 PM
Have you thought any more about the plan to claim guardian?
I don't see any downsides
It's already worth trading the seer for a wolf, and the seer is better than a guardian anyway
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 5:39 PM
I told you that I thought it was a good plan
And I said I don't see downsides first
Honestly, you should do it before people have absolutely no trust in you
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 7:41 PM
The lack of counterclaims will be enough
Alright I guess I'll do it now
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 7:50 PM
But what if a wolf gets cocky and counterclaims?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 7:51 PM
Then we trade a human for a wolf
Oh wait
We trade actual guardian for a wolf
You claim at that point
Same outcome
Without the chance of me dying instead
So it's a little bit worse
But not a lot
Since we still have an alliance
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 7:53 PM
But what if they think we're wolf partners trying to get guardian lynched
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 7:54 PM
Post logs
The wolf won't be able to fake logs easily
And certainly not like this
I don't think there'll be any counter claims anyway
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 7:58 PM
What do I do? Toby claimed seer and seering you red
I know it's fake, though
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 7:58 PM
This doesn't make much sense tbh
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 7:59 PM
I don't know what to do, we didn't plan for this
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:00 PM
I know you wouldn't have nokilled, even you don't have the skills to plan this far ahead
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:00 PM
Yeah tbh if I was a wolf
I would've killed Toby
Thought he was the guardian, remember?
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:01 PM
Nope
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:01 PM
When I said he looked like he was trying to get seered
And we decided he was master wolf
Looks like he's fine trading wolf for special
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:02 PM
I guess. Seer is probably the better one to get
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:02 PM
Yeah, he doesn't know our plan though
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:03 PM
Mwaha
My worry is, people seem to be trusting Toby more than you
And I'm on people's sus lists because I haven't really been active in thread
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:05 PM
Here's what we do
Everyone needs to claim not guardian
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:05 PM
Alright
Say that
But what if second wolf claims guardian?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:07 PM
Then there are 3 guardian claims
And none of them are the real guardian
Lol
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:08 PM
How would there be 3?
Toby claimed seer
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:08 PM
Oh derp
Yeah, if the second wolf claims guardian we just win
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:08 PM
How?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:09 PM
Because it's Toby plus whoever claims guardian
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:09 PM
But how do we prove they're fake?
When the wrong person gets lynched?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:09 PM
You'll have to claim if I'm at risk of getting lynched
But that won't happen, don't worry about it
Toby will die here
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:10 PM
I'm not so sure. A lot of your plans backfire...
No offense, but tend to be a bit bullheaded (not in an offensive way) when you play TWG
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:11 PM
Lol that's NEVER happened
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:12 PM
Did Toby just say he'd wolf guardian?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:13 PM
I... think so?  Idk really
Doesn't matter though, since we know he's a wolf
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:14 PM
Yeah, but it would be useful to use to prove our point to others
I honestly can't see how what he said would mean anything else
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:21 PM
Should I say you were the person I guarded
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:21 PM
No
Too sus right now
I'm the only other against Toby right now
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:21 PM
Yeah, makes sense
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:27 PM
Should I claim Guardian to Toby?
Discombobulated him?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:27 PM
uhh
I mean, that means you die tonight
instead of me
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:27 PM
Yeah, but that's fine
Trade a PR for a wolf, right?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:27 PM
like, a wolf just claimed for free
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:28 PM
But people are believing him
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 8:28 PM
not yet
only 4 people have even acknowledged it
we've got a day yet, if it gets closer than we can go ahead and out ourselves
but since you didn't guard the seer we've got a major advantage
we just need to find the second wolf now
if I die here instead of toby I'm entirely blaming NSM meta
consider this: at this point I say that I'm claiming on behalf of the guardian
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 9:02 PM
I don't know
You're the veteran, you probably know better than me
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 9:03 PM
I've been playing TWG on five different forums for the past couple months
I'm starting to go the way of davy lol
and I've rolled wolf a lot recently on FFR and MTGS so I'm less sure of myself when I don't have the information.
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 9:05 PM
What does that have to do with what I said?
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 9:05 PM
I don't think I know better anymore
I'm starting to feel washed up

[close]

[antherid]

ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 12:41 AM
I am relieved that Oli was just joke voting, but I've never heard of the lower case for jokes thing
NocturneOfShadow - Today at 12:42 AM
yeah never heard of that

it's something mashi and bds do

idk if bds does it consciously but i thought he did

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

it's something mashi and bds do

idk if bds does it consciously but i thought he did

You must be joking.

Mikey for reasons stated here and on Discord.

[mikey]

i agree with everything said in the Discord:

Mikey

[mikey]

bonus points to whoever gets the reference

[antherid]

mikey

i'm with these guys

[Nana1Popo2]

...for reasons stated here and on Discord.

Wait what was said on discord...?

bonus points to whoever gets the reference

I do not


Also THC what the heck lmao.

ALSO also. Idk how many of you all know [One Night:] Ultimate Werewolf, but included are roles that involve dying to win/save the werewolves (i.e. Minion, Tanner, etc). Since there isn't anything of that nature in this game, it makes it ever so easy to pick out anyone stretching the truth or avoiding it. Not saying that we are all 100% correct in our decisions (including mikey atm), but it definitely is less stressful. We'll see when the night ends, i suppose.
HOWEVER, for this reason, i can't pick out a reason as to why mikey is also voting for himself. *shrug*

[ThatHiddenCharacter]

Wait what was said on discord...?

Why aren't you on the server? You have discord.