[DELETED] [NDS] Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky - "Memories Returned" by Bespinben

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Memories Returned
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Bespinben

[Bespinben]

Proof of playability:

[DS] Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2: Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky:
"Memories Returned":

[The Deku Trombonist]

It sounds great, just one or two visual things. Traditionally when using multiple layers, the stems and beams get shortened to allow for more space (particularly inward facing ones), since that extra length is really not necessary. Finale does this occasionally, or perhaps "when it feels like it" would be more accurate. On a side note, this is also one of the standard things Lilypond does (if you haven't heard of it, check it out and also read their underlying philosophy). Anyway, I'm waffling again. Basically this will help with a few space issues (like at 29, 59-60 etc).

Bah, I'm not blessed with time so I'll add some things later.

The triplets in bar 8 would look better with all the '3' being underneath the middle triplet, like on the 2nd and 4th beat.

Dotted rests in bar 6 & 7.

That 9/8 bar would make much more sense in 4/4 with some kind of musical direction indicating that it's slightly held back.

Listening to this, are there some bars missing from the start somewhere around bar 6?

Small tip: the line in the LH of the bar 9 can be done a bit more easily with only 1 line using the custom line tool (edit the length of the hook to increase the length of the short side).

I wonder if bits like bar 27 can be written more cleanly. It can easily cause confusion with the number of beats in the bar, as I've seen with discussions of some of Gori's sheets.

Some other things I noticed, I dunno if you did this intentionally or not:
-Could the chord at the end of bar 18 be rolled? I reckon it's nice, it highlights the added note and the suspended sound nicely
-Missing harmony on the and of beat 3 in bars 19 and 21?

Just a little notation suggestion to possibly clean some things up in bar 23 onwards:

[Bespinben]

Woohoo!

NEW FILES:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35209091/PMD2%20-%20Memories%20Returned.mus
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35209091/PMD2%20-%20Memories%20Returned.pdf

The triplets in bar 8 would look better with all the '3' being underneath the middle triplet, like on the 2nd and 4th beat.
Dotted rests in bar 6 & 7.
That 9/8 bar would make much more sense in 4/4 with some kind of musical direction indicating that it's slightly held back.
Just a little notation suggestion to possibly clean some things up in bar 23 onwards:

Good catches! All implemented.

Listening to this, are there some bars missing from the start somewhere around bar 6?

Ah! I had feeling this would come up. There are actually TWO versions of this song -- one from the Explorers of Time/Darkness (2007), and another from the expansion Explorers of Sky (2009). I arranged from the former (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz_PuMz0k), which does not have those extra 4 measures. They are identical in every other way though.

I wonder if bits like bar 27 can be written more cleanly. It can easily cause confusion with the number of beats in the bar, as I've seen with discussions of some of Gori's sheets.

I spent so much time on this spot haha XD It's pretty messy I agree, but that was as best as I could think to render it. It seems you are more concerned with my beam-breaking then my layer work though... in which case, maybe I could look over that again. Franz Liszt was pretty liberal with his beam breaks though (example), but maybe you could point me to a few spots where this might be unnecessary?

Some other things I noticed, I dunno if you did this intentionally or not:
-Could the chord at the end of bar 18 be rolled? I reckon it's nice, it highlights the added note and the suspended sound nicely
-Missing harmony on the and of beat 3 in bars 19 and 21?

Yup that was intentional. I like what you said about accented the suspended chord with a roll, but I don't see one to roll in m. 18... do you mean at the beginning (the one that is tied into m. 18 at the end of m. 17)?

Traditionally when using multiple layers, the stems and beams get shortened to allow for more space (particularly inward facing ones), since that extra length is really not necessary. Finale does this occasionally, or perhaps "when it feels like it" would be more accurate. On a side note, this is also one of the standard things Lilypond does (if you haven't heard of it, check it out and also read their underlying philosophy). Anyway, I'm waffling again. Basically this will help with a few space issues (like at 29, 59-60 etc).

I feel like since I've used Finale for so long that this default over-lengthening just seems natural to me. I do see though that m. 60 is especially off. I hate to be a mooch, but would you mind fixing this issue yourself for me? Maybe then I can study what you did and apply it to other stuff in the future.

[The Deku Trombonist]

Ah! I had feeling this would come up. There are actually TWO versions of this song -- one from the Explorers of Time/Darkness (2007), and another from the expansion Explorers of Sky (2009). I arranged from the former (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz_PuMz0k), which does not have those extra 4 measures. They are identical in every other way though.

Righteo, that's cool. Is there some way of adding it as an optional insert or something? If it's too hard or it'll change the music too much it's alright, don't worry about it.

I spent so much time on this spot haha XD It's pretty messy I agree, but that was as best as I could think to render it. It seems you are more concerned with my beam-breaking then my layer work though... in which case, maybe I could look over that again. Franz Liszt was pretty liberal with his beam breaks though (example), but maybe you could point me to a few spots where this might be unnecessary?

Using 27 (RH) as an example, it's just the visual impact of seeing a dotted quarter followed by an eighth, in the same range, which actually only occurs over one beat. There's a similar rhythm in bar 31, but because the top layer is actually higher than the bottom layer and with the placement of the rests it reads more easily. I understand if nothing can be done about it, but I think it's worth having a think about. As for beaming, I'd need to have a closer look when I've got a bit more time and can listen to it.

Yup that was intentional. I like what you said about accented the suspended chord with a roll, but I don't see one to roll in m. 18... do you mean at the beginning (the one that is tied into m. 18 at the end of m. 17)?

Yeeeaaaah I mistyped that one. I meant 17. I'm assuming that roll is in the original one too and not just the Sky version?

I feel like since I've used Finale for so long that this default over-lengthening just seems natural to me. I do see though that m. 60 is especially off. I hate to be a mooch, but would you mind fixing this issue yourself for me? Maybe then I can study what you did and apply it to other stuff in the future.

Sure thing. As soon as I find some time which hasn't been eaten up with fixing up wind ensemble parts.

[The Deku Trombonist]

I may or may not have something to say about that lonely un-beamed eighth note at the end of bar 5 but I can't find a video of the time/darkness version and the video you linked doesn't work.

In bar 6 and 7 where some of the octave doubling drops to the left hand, I think you need to show where it drops down and not just where it returns back to the RH.
Serving suggestion:


It would be nice if the first 2 beats of the RH of bar 22 could be written a bit more cleanly.

And I've already mentioned bar 27.

Any particular reason for writing the LH part in the top staff at bars 29 and 30?

Perhaps consider moving the eighth rest in bar 34 above the whole note? It seems to read more easily, for me anyway.

There's nothing wrong with musical beaming and it has its place when used with care. Although the nice thing about using conventional beaming is that it takes care of consistency for you. Anyway, I had this nice little paragraph all typed out but having listened to the music a few more times, I'm not so sure. I guess it depends whether you think the pulse tends towards 3+2+3 or 3+3+2 and where. Using 38 as an example: looking at your sheet it seems like the former, listening to the track it seems like the latter. Although the one thing that does bug me is the conflicting beaming between the LH and RH in bar 35. Particularly since they're highlighting the same pulse (3 + whatever).

I know Finale defaults to ties all facing one direction when using multiple layers, but sometimes it really doesn't work. Eg bar 42 LH where one of the ties is colliding with a note. There are other places where this happens, this is just the one that caught my attention.

Hmm...I'm not sure I'm convinced (musically) by that triplet in bar 43.

That's probably all of the nitpicking I've got in me at the moment

[DonValentino]

bump for Bespinben~~

[DonValentino]

Sorry Bespin! Da rules are da rules. Deleted for inactivity, feel free to resubmit.